Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[ice orca]

How in the world is that trolling?

Are we supposed to praise every player that is ever in the Canucks organization? I am a fan of every prospect in the system bar Virtanen. He was drafted too high at the time, with Ehlers and Nylander on the board, and has shown nothing to live up to his draft status.

Instead of throwing out a dumb insult, why don;t you reply with an intelligent response?

Maybe you should wait until these kids are playing in the NHL before you make judgements. He was one of the youngest in his draft class and could very well go back to junior and put up the same numbers or even better ones than Ehlers did this year. In fact that would be a better assessment to how he does agains't Ehlers at the same age. I wonder how Ehlers or Nylander would perform after shoulder surgery and losing the off season training and the start of the regular season.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Nylander: 35 points in 42 AHL games (+10) and he's only 3 months older than Virtanen, who has 1 point in 8 AHL games (+1).

Sure Virtanen will be a fantastic NHL player one day and a good fit for these Canucks, but Benning should have listened to his Swedish scout because Nylander is, always has been and always will be the better, far more skilled and more NHL-ready of the two players. Didn't make a bad pick in Virtanen and I still hope he pans out eventually, but we'll have to be MUCH more patient with him than with say a guy like Nylander, who in all honesty is probably going to get half an NHL season next season and play pretty well.

For those of you who say "he's not tough enough" and will get squashed by the big strong, tough guys...he's a teenager scoring at a higher pace than most AHL guys and embarassing men out there. When you've got elite talent like that, you score goals and win games. Toughness is one aspect of the sport, but it doesn't score you goals or win you games.

Look at these Cup finals - all the players are "tough", but skill is 100% predominating in these Stanley Cup Playoffs. The playoff scoring leaders are all midgets (Kane and Johnson). It's easy for ignorant fools to get caught up in the toughness aspect of the game, but you have to remember that a team needs a top-end talent to break games open and the Canucks simply don't have that in their organization. Hopefully Baertschi helps that cause, but Nylander would have been an intelligent pick by Benning. Instead he rectified his mistake (and he knows it) by snagging Baertschi to cover that hole.

[WonderTwinPowers]

Nylander: 35 points in 42 AHL games (+10) and he's only 3 months older than Virtanen, who has 1 point in 8 AHL games (+1).

Sure Virtanen will be a fantastic NHL player one day and a good fit for these Canucks, but Benning should have listened to his Swedish scout because Nylander is, always has been and always will be the better, far more skilled and more NHL-ready of the two players. Didn't make a bad pick in Virtanen and I still hope he pans out eventually, but we'll have to be MUCH more patient with him than with say a guy like Nylander, who in all honesty is probably going to get half an NHL season next season and play pretty well.

For those of you who say "he's not tough enough" and will get squashed by the big strong, tough guys...he's a teenager scoring at a higher pace than most AHL guys and embarassing men out there. When you've got elite talent like that, you score goals and win games. Toughness is one aspect of the sport, but it doesn't score you goals or win you games.

Look at these Cup finals - all the players are "tough", but skill is 100% predominating in these Stanley Cup Playoffs. The playoff scoring leaders are all midgets (Kane and Johnson). It's easy for ignorant fools to get caught up in the toughness aspect of the game, but you have to remember that a team needs a top-end talent to break games open and the Canucks simply don't have that in their organization. Hopefully Baertschi helps that cause, but Nylander would have been an intelligent pick by Benning. Instead he rectified his mistake (and he knows it) by snagging Baertschi to cover that hole.

Surprise! Downunda brought up his boy toy again. Hope you two have a fantastic honeymoon

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

You must be new. It's okay, with time you'll learn that pessimism is forbidden in this place. All must be happy go lucky in Candyland here. Even if there's reason not to be.

Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. Virtanen HAD a disappointing season- how in the world can ANYONE debate that fact is beyond me. He struggled in Calgary, and he has played decent in Utica. He still is not PRODUCING- what is expected from a 6th overall pick. At some point, I expect points, because what separates 3rd liners from 1st line Powerforwards in the NHL is the ability to produce consistently.

[thejazz97]

Nylander: 35 points in 42 AHL games (+10) and he's only 3 months older than Virtanen, who has 1 point in 8 AHL games (+1).

Sure Virtanen will be a fantastic NHL player one day and a good fit for these Canucks, but Benning should have listened to his Swedish scout because Nylander is, always has been and always will be the better, far more skilled and more NHL-ready of the two players. Didn't make a bad pick in Virtanen and I still hope he pans out eventually, but we'll have to be MUCH more patient with him than with say a guy like Nylander, who in all honesty is probably going to get half an NHL season next season and play pretty well.

For those of you who say "he's not tough enough" and will get squashed by the big strong, tough guys...he's a teenager scoring at a higher pace than most AHL guys and embarassing men out there. When you've got elite talent like that, you score goals and win games. Toughness is one aspect of the sport, but it doesn't score you goals or win you games.

Look at these Cup finals - all the players are "tough", but skill is 100% predominating in these Stanley Cup Playoffs. The playoff scoring leaders are all midgets (Kane and Johnson). It's easy for ignorant fools to get caught up in the toughness aspect of the game, but you have to remember that a team needs a top-end talent to break games open and the Canucks simply don't have that in their organization. Hopefully Baertschi helps that cause, but Nylander would have been an intelligent pick by Benning. Instead he rectified his mistake (and he knows it) by snagging Baertschi to cover that hole.

Hey, so, how many points did Bo Horvat have in the AHL? Want to remind me? I think I've forgotten...

And how many points did he put up in the NHL? I think I've forgotten that too...

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

Go get a job.

Go find a gf or something.

We ARE allowed to critique players on this website right?

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

lol I knew people would be complaining about his point totals in the AHL sooner or later. guys its the playoffs.... Not many goals are scored let alone by a rookie just getting use to the new speed and talent level in the AHL compared to the WHL. You guys are funny.

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

lol I knew people would be complaining about his point totals in the AHL sooner or later. guys its the playoffs.... Not many goals are scored let alone by a rookie just getting use to the new speed and talent level in the AHL compared to the WHL. You guys are funny.

Dylan Larkin produced while also coming over mid playoff run.

[Nicklas Bo Hunter]

Dylan Larkin produced while also coming over mid playoff run.

Was he not also places on the top line? virtanen was on the fourth line. The 1 game he played top line with Baertschi he got an assist...

[DownUndaCanuck]

Yeah, absolutely ridiculous. Virtanen HAD a disappointing season- how in the world can ANYONE debate that fact is beyond me. He struggled in Calgary, and he has played decent in Utica. He still is not PRODUCING- what is expected from a 6th overall pick. At some point, I expect points, because what separates 3rd liners from 1st line Powerforwards in the NHL is the ability to produce consistently.

Exactly. Granted he is still very young and far away from the NHL, he needs to start putting up some serious numbers in the next couple of seasons in junior and the AHL, because Jake's defensive game simply isn't the same as what Horvat's was. If he's not scoring points, we can't keep him on the team for just playing physically because there are a bunch of 4th line grinders who can do that job, score the odd goal and kill penalties as well.

Jake needs another season in junior no doubt about it. He needs to learn how to round out his game better, put up a few more points than he did the last 2 seasons but more importantly IMO play SOLID defence. Horvat jumped into the NHL so well because of his strong physicality, but more importantly his 2-way game. He plays a solid 200 foot game, plays hard defensively and wins faceoffs, and because of this well rounded game, he practically skipped the AHL and jumped into the NHL.

I've always thought that you round out your game in junior. You learn offensive skills and defensive skills in junior with a good coach, then go to the AHL to understand the physical and mental grind of the professional game. They play 3 games in 3 nights over there and have comparable travel schedules to in the NHL, along with added pressure and playing against stronger, physical men, which is where players develop the physical and mental tools needed to play in the NHL.

I believe Jake Virtanen, like Horvat, has most of those physical and mental tools. He may not be as mentally ready as Horvat was, but he definately is physically strong and fast enough for the NHL. The BIG problem right now with him is scoring consistently and defensive play, both of which I believe can be honed a bit more in junior.

Unless he somehow catches fire in training camp (very unlikely he beats out his competitors like Baertschi, Vey, Kassian, Jensen, Shinkaruk and Gaunce at wing), I want Virtanen back scoring something like 70-80 points in 50 games in junior. The following season he can consider cracking the NHL roster as a 3rd or 4th liner, otherwise he'll do well in Utica, but Virtanen is a project. Unlike Nylander, who is mentally, physically and skill-level ready for the NHL, Virtanen is going to need a bit more time which suits the Canucks fine because Benning has gone out and bulked up that winger depth chart.

[CanucksFanTillDeath1995]

Exactly. Granted he is still very young and far away from the NHL, he needs to start putting up some serious numbers in the next couple of seasons in junior and the AHL, because Jake's defensive game simply isn't the same as what Horvat's was. If he's not scoring points, we can't keep him on the team for just playing physically because there are a bunch of 4th line grinders who can do that job, score the odd goal and kill penalties as well.

Jake needs another season in junior no doubt about it. He needs to learn how to round out his game better, put up a few more points than he did the last 2 seasons but more importantly IMO play SOLID defence. Horvat jumped into the NHL so well because of his strong physicality, but more importantly his 2-way game. He plays a solid 200 foot game, plays hard defensively and wins faceoffs, and because of this well rounded game, he practically skipped the AHL and jumped into the NHL.

I've always thought that you round out your game in junior. You learn offensive skills and defensive skills in junior with a good coach, then go to the AHL to understand the physical and mental grind of the professional game. They play 3 games in 3 nights over there and have comparable travel schedules to in the NHL, along with added pressure and playing against stronger, physical men, which is where players develop the physical and mental tools needed to play in the NHL.

I believe Jake Virtanen, like Horvat, has most of those physical and mental tools. He may not be as mentally ready as Horvat was, but he definately is physically strong and fast enough for the NHL. The BIG problem right now with him is scoring consistently and defensive play, both of which I believe can be honed a bit more in junior.

Unless he somehow catches fire in training camp (very unlikely he beats out his competitors like Baertschi, Vey, Kassian, Jensen, Shinkaruk and Gaunce at wing), I want Virtanen back scoring something like 70-80 points in 50 games in junior. The following season he can consider cracking the NHL roster as a 3rd or 4th liner, otherwise he'll do well in Utica, but Virtanen is a project. Unlike Nylander, who is mentally, physically and skill-level ready for the NHL, Virtanen is going to need a bit more time which suits the Canucks fine because Benning has gone out and bulked up that winger depth chart.

Completely agreed with the bolded. Maybe Virtanen bounces back next season, he does have all the tools, but at this point Nylander or Ehlers would look very nice on a line next to Horvat and Sven. Nylander/Ehlers could both make Horvat a perennial 30 goal scorer. Dissapointing we did not choose them but the only thing you can do is hope Jake pans out.

[Realtor Rod]

So 8 games in to hospital professional career we should call him a disappointment? I guess the comments by Green and Benning should be ignored? I remember trevor linden scored something like 14 goals in his second whl season. Remember when Bertuzzi wasn't a point per game player in his second OHL season?

Stop staring at the stats. Watch him play. Starting tomorrow it will be free. Think about him skating up on Nylander with the puck on his stick and turning Nylander into dust.

[Standing_Tall#37]

You don't develop top 10 picks in jr, you bust them.

[Canorth]

Dylan Larkin produced while also coming over mid playoff run.

When's Larkins next game? Hope it's not on Saturday because I'll be busy watching Virtanen tear a gaping hole through the Monarchs in the AHL Calder cup finals.

You should try watching him play too

Edited June 5, 2015 by Canorth

[DownUndaCanuck]

Think about him skating up on Nylander with the puck on his stick and turning Nylander into dust.

This may be the most repetitive and idiotic statements in this forum right now. Physicality in the NHL is grossly overated by Canucks fans because of how it directly impacted the Canucks' best chance at a Stanley Cup in 2011, and the oversimplification of the matter is to think "Toughness > skill" when in actual fact that's not the only reason we lost the Cup - we lost it on defensive depth, scoring depth, injuries and goaltending. People need to stop thinking about toughness = success, because it's not always the case.

A good team needs BALANCE, thinking of Virtanen VS Nylander is far too close-minded. At the time of the draft this team needed a replacement for Henrik Sedin. They needed top-end skill, they needed someone who could play center and they needed him NHL-ready in about 3 seasons. Instead Benning drafted Virtanen, another Kassian/Horvat/Shinkaruk-type, gritty scoring winger. Granted Benning rectified this by going out and getting McCann, then Baertschi to bring some skill and center depth in, but drafting Nylander would have acheived the same goal. Overall, Benning understands the concept of a balanced prospect pool and team, now it's time for the rest of CDC to do so.

And secondly, Virtanen is never going to "smoke Nylander with a huge hit". Look at the Stanley Cup Finals. How did the big, rough and tough boys of Anaheim fare against the tiny clutch kids in Chicago? Corey Perry, Getzlaf and Kesler all play a hard-hitting brand of hockey and are about as skilled as you get in the NHL, but what happened? Their offence dried up because they got shut down by a dominant defence. On the other-side, you've got a sub-6 foot midget running around shredding the Ducks defence.

And in the East, you just saw the big, strong powerforwards like Rick Nash, Brassard and a relatively big Rangers team up front get stifled by a decent goalie in Ben Bishop. Meanwhile, the New York Rangers defence which was touted as one of the league's deepest, and arguably the best goalie in the world right now just got eaten alive by one of the smallest forward groups in the NHL. Tyler Johnson, Killorn and Kucherov are all average sized at best. They don't play a hard-hitting, gritty game, but they can take a hit, score clutch goals and win games.

I'd take a winner and clutch scorer like Pat Kane or Tyler Johnson on my team over a perennial loser like Kesler or Rick Nash any day. Granted, the aforementioned "balance" hasn't been there on all of their teams, but something has to be said for the way these small, skilled forwards are consistently playoff heroes. Size means nothing in the playoffs anymore.

[TOMapleLaughs]

The truth is you need all types of players to win. Virtanen is a type we sorely needed. Nylander and Ehlers weren't.

That could help to explain why we selected Virtanen.

I know a lot are expecting Ehlers and Nylander to become the next Patrick Kane, and they may be disappointed. First off, Kane is on Chicago, not TO or Winnipeg. So I think the peak for these guys will by Johnny Gaudreau, not Kane. And imho Gaudreau is a fraud.

People are also discounting Virtanen's skill imho. If you give him the same role those other guys have, in which they do nothing without the puck, then he will score, since his hands, speed and shot are about the same. But since Benning has decided he wants two-way hockey from him instead, we're seeing that in terms of his development. And he is far, far better defensive player than either of the other two, who again only come up so often here and in HF due to the teams that drafted them.

Where's the talk of Ritchie now? Fiala looks pretty good. As is Honka. Vrana was over a ppg in his AHL stint. As was Fabbri. Larkin. Kapanen. And of course Pastrnak, who made the jump into the NHL right away, where the two 'megastars' above didn't.

Anyway, Benning is a drafting guru. Case #1: As a drafting guru, he got this pick right. Right?

If we wanted true star-level offensive skill on this team, then we should've just followed my last sig. I think McDavid would have no trouble at all playing against Ehlers and Nylander.

Benning has a plan. I'm curious to see what it is regarding defensemen, but up front he, and Gillis before him, is building a solid character team. Hopefully a winner.

ps. Tyler Johnson wasn't even drafted. And he played in our backyard. Cue the 'where were we on that?'

Edited June 5, 2015 by TOMapleLaughs

[Realtor Rod]

This may be the most repetitive and idiotic statements in this forum right now. Physicality in the NHL is grossly overated by Canucks fans because of how it directly impacted the Canucks' best chance at a Stanley Cup in 2011, and the oversimplification of the matter is to think "Toughness > skill" when in actual fact that's not the only reason we lost the Cup - we lost it on defensive depth, scoring depth, injuries and goaltending. People need to stop thinking about toughness = success, because it's not always the case.

A good team needs BALANCE, thinking of Virtanen VS Nylander is far too close-minded. At the time of the draft this team needed a replacement for Henrik Sedin. They needed top-end skill, they needed someone who could play center and they needed him NHL-ready in about 3 seasons. Instead Benning drafted Virtanen, another Kassian/Horvat/Shinkaruk-type, gritty scoring winger. Granted Benning rectified this by going out and getting McCann, then Baertschi to bring some skill and center depth in, but drafting Nylander would have acheived the same goal. Overall, Benning understands the concept of a balanced prospect pool and team, now it's time for the rest of CDC to do so.

And secondly, Virtanen is never going to "smoke Nylander with a huge hit". Look at the Stanley Cup Finals. How did the big, rough and tough boys of Anaheim fare against the tiny clutch kids in Chicago? Corey Perry, Getzlaf and Kesler all play a hard-hitting brand of hockey and are about as skilled as you get in the NHL, but what happened? Their offence dried up because they got shut down by a dominant defence. On the other-side, you've got a sub-6 foot midget running around shredding the Ducks defence.

And in the East, you just saw the big, strong powerforwards like Rick Nash, Brassard and a relatively big Rangers team up front get stifled by a decent goalie in Ben Bishop. Meanwhile, the New York Rangers defence which was touted as one of the league's deepest, and arguably the best goalie in the world right now just got eaten alive by one of the smallest forward groups in the NHL. Tyler Johnson, Killorn and Kucherov are all average sized at best. They don't play a hard-hitting, gritty game, but they can take a hit, score clutch goals and win games.

I'd take a winner and clutch scorer like Pat Kane or Tyler Johnson on my team over a perennial loser like Kesler or Rick Nash any day. Granted, the aforementioned "balance" hasn't been there on all of their teams, but something has to be said for the way these small, skilled forwards are consistently playoff heroes. Size means nothing in the playoffs anymore.

Chicago is the 7th biggest team in the nhl. Your post is filled with contradictions. So you aren't or are happy with virtanen as a pick? Watch him play tomorrow.

[tyhee]

... I remember trevor linden scored something like 14 goals in his second whl season. ...

I agreed with most of your post, but don't see what the number of goals scored by Linden as a 16 year old rookie in the WHL has to do with Virtanen's progress nor do I think comparing Virtanen with Linden helps the case for Virtanen at all.

Linden had played 5 regular season games and 6 in the playoffs for Medicine Hat in 85-86; then 14 g + 22 ast=36 pts as a 16 YO WHL rookie in 86-87; 110 points in 67 games in his draft year 87-88 as a 17 year old, then 30 goals/59 pts as an NHL rookie at the age of 18.

Virtanen's scoring (goals + assists) pales beside Linden's in his draft year and in his draft + 1 year Linden scored 30 goals for the Canucks and Virtanen 21 while still in Jr.

I'm optimistic about Virtanen's future and not worried as some are by his not scoring more, but don't see how comparison with Linden is helpful to those arguing Virtanen's cause.

Edited June 5, 2015 by tyhee

[aGENT]

Ugggh... this again. How about you guys just go back a couple hundred pages and read this same argument there?

[FireGillis]

The truth is you need all types of players to win. Virtanen is a type we sorely needed. Nylander and Ehlers weren't.

I disagree with that. At the time of the draft the canucks offensive output looked bleak being one of the lowest scoring teams in the league. This team desperately needed potential top 6 scorers and it was our biggest need. We also had no offensive studs waiting in the wings for when the sedins retired. I still think nylander or ehlers were the better pick and I hope virtanen proves me wrong, but he's got to start putting up points eventually. Nylander already had 32 points in 37 AHL games this year and looks like the stud he was projected to be. Virtanen right now still has people making excuses for his play. I'm praying virtanen pans out because to have the canucks highest pick since the sedins bust would just be so canucks luck for them.

Edited June 5, 2015 by FireGillis