Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Gstank29]

Why does it matter that we only have 2 drafted forward on the team? Technically you could say we have 4 home grown players because Burrows was Developed by the Canucks and Horvat will be on our roster soon. Also if you look at our AHL and ECHL rosters we are bound for a huge wave of young players joining our lineup in the next 2-3 years.

[73 Percent]

Why does it matter that we only have 2 drafted forward on the team? Technically you could say we have 4 home grown players because Burrows was Developed by the Canucks and Horvat will be on our roster soon. Also if you look at our AHL and ECHL rosters we are bound for a huge wave of young players joining our lineup in the next 2-3 years.

i dunno. He may be on to something. Compare how many home growns we have to Stanley cup contenders. Compare how many we have now to how many we had in 2011.

[timberz21]

Uhmmm. the Sedins are two players ...so add Hansen ....

yeah at first I didn't include Hansen since he's now basically a 4th liner and not like he has a big impact on our team.

Also I'd like to point out how useless the whole thought process is.

Firstly it doesn't account for players that we traded our prospects for that better fit team needs or how "our" prospects ended up performing (or not) elsewhere.

It also doesn't consider the improvements made in both drafting and development the past ~3 years.

So basically

What improvements? Changes, yes, so far we can't say for sure if we improved (well in a way, hard to get worst at)...

Basically it's the same scouting staff, same assistant GM. Pretty much only Benning and Weisbrod are new.

And from what we see on the ice, pretty much the same team as last year. Vrbata replaced Kesler, Miller replaces Luongo (pretty much same results), Burrows and Higgins still our suppose "secondary scoring", Kassian still stuck on 3-4th line duty, Vey beside playing 1st PP is a 4th line player and from the looks of it, so will Horvat.

All the significant changes are pretty much for insignant role. Rookie/prospect still no closer to cracking a core role.

I like WD, and he can put the system he wants, it's still basically the same core we had the past 5 years. When the Sedins finally leaves, then the kids will have their shot and without any experience, they'll look just liek the oilers.

[Gstank29]

i dunno. He may be on to something. Compare how many home growns we have to Stanley cup contenders. Compare how many we have now to how many we had in 2011.

Not saying we are going to be like LA or Chicago in Developing player but, as of now it looks like were going to be pretty close to them for the next 2-3 years. IMO it's either we win the cup in the next 2 years (Sedins can still contribute)or it's going to take at least 5+ in tell we are in contending form

[timberz21]

Why does it matter that we only have 2 drafted forward on the team? Technically you could say we have 4 home grown players because Burrows was Developed by the Canucks and Horvat will be on our roster soon. Also if you look at our AHL and ECHL rosters we are bound for a huge wave of young players joining our lineup in the next 2-3 years.

Look at the contender, they all develop drafted and develop their core players. High profile UFA are more rare then they used to be and when there is some, they don't want to come to Canada, unless overpaid.

Horvat from the looks of it will get 4th line minutes and might be sent down.

Yeah! bring on the kids when the Sedins are gone, so they can look just like the Oilers. Why don't bring some now (in a significant role, top6/9) and learn from the Sedins and be part of the core group.

[stawns]

Look at the contender, they all develop drafted and develop their core players. High profile UFA are more rare then they used to be and when there is some, they don't want to come to Canada, unless overpaid.

Horvat from the looks of it will get 4th line minutes and might be sent down.

Yeah! bring on the kids when the Sedins are gone, so they can look just like the Oilers. Why don't bring some now (in a significant role, top6/9) and learn from the Sedins and be part of the core group.

and most of the current contenders were bad for quite awhile and got to pick consistently in the top 1-10 for several years. Pretty easy to have homegrown players in the lineup when you pick in the top 10 every year.

[timberz21]

Not saying we are going to be like LA or Chicago in Developing player but, as of now it looks like were going to be pretty close to them for the next 2-3 years. IMO it's either we win the cup in the next 2 years (Sedins can still contribute)or it's going to take at least 5+ in tell we are in contending form

If we are going to win the cup in the next 2 years (which is highly improbable, see impossible), we need our Horvat, Shink, Jensen to contribute, we won't win the cup with the Higgins and co. on the 2nd line. Not saying play then as our 2nd line right now.

But at some point this year we need 2 of those player in our top6/9 logging siginificant minutes.

[timberz21]

and most of the current contenders were bad for quite awhile and got to pick consistently in the top 1-10 for several years. Pretty easy to have homegrown players in the lineup when you pick in the top 10 every year.

LA : Doughty (2nd), Schenn (4th), Kopitar (10th), Pearson (30th), Brown (13th), Voynov (32nd), Quikc (72nd),

BOS : Krejci (63rd), Hamilton (8th), Bergeron (45th), Lucic(50th), Marchand (71th)

CHI : Toews (3rd) Kane (1st), Seabrok (13th), Keith (54th), Saad (42nd), Shaw (139th), Hajlamarson (108th)

MTL : Galchenyuk (3rd), Gallagher (147th), Pacioretty (22nd), Subban (43rd), Plekanec (71st), Emelin 84th)

STL : Bakces (62nd), Berglung (25th), Pietrangelo (4th), Swchart (14th), Tarasenko(16th), Oshie 24th

Van : Hodgson (8th), Horvat (9th), Grabner (14th), Schreoder (22nd)

We had good picks too and none of them are playing yet. Man, Virtanen will get crucified if he doesn't come through.

Edited October 23, 2014 by timberz21

[aGENT]

yeah at first I didn't include Hansen since he's now basically a 4th liner and not like he has a big impact on our team.

What improvements? Changes, yes, so far we can't say for sure if we improved (well in a way, hard to get worst at)...

Basically it's the same scouting staff, same assistant GM. Pretty much only Benning and Weisbrod are new.

And from what we see on the ice, pretty much the same team as last year. Vrbata replaced Kesler, Miller replaces Luongo (pretty much same results), Burrows and Higgins still our suppose "secondary scoring", Kassian still stuck on 3-4th line duty, Vey beside playing 1st PP is a 4th line player and from the looks of it, so will Horvat.

All the significant changes are pretty much for insignant role. Rookie/prospect still no closer to cracking a core role.

I like WD, and he can put the system he wants, it's still basically the same core we had the past 5 years. When the Sedins finally leaves, then the kids will have their shot and without any experience, they'll look just liek the oilers.

Before the management/coaching shakeup last year, we already had a new head of scouting and if you notice, our drafting the last couple years appears to have taken a large step forward (and should continue to do so given Benning's scouting background as well). But as you say, we won't know for sure until more of these kids are playing pro (AHL/NHL). That's not going to happen overnight as you seem to be clamoring for.

We also purchased our own minor league team and have been generally investing FAR more time and money in to development the past few years. I don't know how you can argue that? Just like above, we will start seeing the results of that over the next few years as well but expecting a sudden, instant glut of improvement RIGHT NOW is just plain silly.

This year is the trickle before the real flow begins the next couple years. IMO the 2-3 year mark is where we'll likely have the best shot at a cup in the immediate future. We'll still have talented if aging Sedins and we'll have ever increasing, talented young players contributing on ELC's.

What exactly are you expecting here?

[aGENT]

LA : Doughty (2nd), Schenn (4th), Kopitar (10th), Pearson (30th), Brown (13th), Voynov (32nd), Quikc (72nd),

BOS : Krejci (63rd), Hamilton (8th), Bergeron (45th), Lucic(50th), Marchand (71th)

CHI : Toews (3rd) Kane (1st), Seabrok (13th), Keith (54th), Saad (42nd), Shaw (139th), Hajlamarson (108th)

MTL : Galchenyuk (3rd), Gallagher (147th), Pacioretty (22nd), Subban (43rd), Plekanec (71st), Emelin 84th)

STL : Bakces (62nd), Berglung (25th), Pietrangelo (4th), Swchart (14th), Tarasenko(16th), Oshie 24th

Van : Hodgson (8th), Horvat (9th), Grabner (14th), Schreoder (22nd)

We had good picks too and none of them are playing yet. Man, Virtanen will get crucified if he doesn't come through.

You realize all those other teams picked those players a few years ago right? Players take time to develop. We JUST drafted our two, top 10 players this year and last.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Nor is a good hockey club.

[timberz21]

Before the management/coaching shakeup last year, we already had a new head of scouting and if you notice, our drafting the last couple years appears to have taken a large step forward (and should continue to do so given Benning's scouting background as well). But as you say, we won't know for sure until more of these kids are playing pro (AHL/NHL). That's not going to happen overnight as you seem to be clamoring for.

We also purchased our own minor league team and have been generally investing FAR more time and money in to development the past few years. I don't know how you can argue that? Just like above, we will start seeing the results of that over the next few years as well but expecting a sudden, instant glut of improvement RIGHT NOW is just plain silly.

This year is the trickle before the real flow begins the next couple years. IMO the 2-3 year mark is where we'll likely have the best shot at a cup in the immediate future. We'll still have talented if aging Sedins and we'll have ever increasing, talented young players contributing on ELC's.

What exactly are you expecting here?

Exactly, if we peak in 2-3 years, we need the Jensen, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Corrado to get experience right now. Not expecting them to be dominant players on a contender when it's their 1st or 2nd year in the league.

I'm not asking to put a kid line behind the Sedin rightaway. But to me Jensen is NHL ready and should have been given a top 9 chance. Yes Horvat will get a look, but as it looks right now (even before the injury) he was going to be on the 4th line. And we expect him to blow everyone away otherwise it's basically OHL bound.

Shinkaruk I agree needs AHL time, but I would also expect a 20 games NHL stint, but with the Higgins, Burrows, Hansen. Matthias, Richardson he'll never get a shot at a decent NHL experience.

Gotta put some faith in the kids too, otherwise we'll never be contenders. Toffoli and Pearson were brought up at the same time as Jensen last year, and now are palying with Carter on a regular line. yes they had a cup run that Jensen didn't have, but still.

BOS played Reilly, Krug and Hamilton with veteran like Chara, Seidenberg, Bergeron, Krejic, and look what it did.

St-Louis slowly integrated Schwartz and Tarasenko into their top 9, then 6, despite a deep forward group.

We don't trust our kids, if they are not Selke candidate yet, they don't get to play.

[timberz21]

You realize all those other teams picked those players a few years ago right? Players take time to develop. We JUST drafted our two, top 10 players this year and last.

Rome wasn't built in a day. Nor is a good hockey club.

That's not my point, my point is our only forward player that we drafted are the Sedins and Hansen and those team are not contenders by only picking in the top 5. They had other great picks later on

Edited October 23, 2014 by timberz21

[Seven pounds soft]

Hi , I'm looking for the jake Virtanen thread.

Anyone seen it?

[aGENT]

That's not my point, my point is our only forward player that we drafted are the Sedins and Hansen and those team are not contenders by only picking in the top 5. They had other great picks later on

Different timelines chief.

We have some later round guys (Cassels, Suban, Cedarholm etc) or late 1st guys (McCann, Shinkaruk) who look to be "great picks later on" too.

You know what the difference is between those teams and ours is? We JUST drafted them like five minutes ago.

[mangosteens]

LA : Doughty (2nd), Schenn (4th), Kopitar (10th), Pearson (30th), Brown (13th), Voynov (32nd), Quikc (72nd),

BOS : Krejci (63rd), Hamilton (8th), Bergeron (45th), Lucic(50th), Marchand (71th)

CHI : Toews (3rd) Kane (1st), Seabrok (13th), Keith (54th), Saad (42nd), Shaw (139th), Hajlamarson (108th)

MTL : Galchenyuk (3rd), Gallagher (147th), Pacioretty (22nd), Subban (43rd), Plekanec (71st), Emelin 84th)

STL : Bakces (62nd), Berglung (25th), Pietrangelo (4th), Swchart (14th), Tarasenko(16th), Oshie 24th

Van : Hodgson (8th), Horvat (9th), Grabner (14th), Schreoder (22nd)

We had good picks too and none of them are playing yet. Man, Virtanen will get crucified if he doesn't come through.

What about the Canucks defenseman draft picks? Edler(91st) and Bieksa(151st) were both Canucks draft picks. Tanev signed as a college UFA and is essentially a draft pick. That is half of the d-core. Also Corrado(150th) was a 5th rounder who looks like he will be an NHL d-man at some point.

In goal, Eddie Lack was signed as an undrafted UFA out of Sweden. Essentially the same as a draft pick.

[2SKATES1STICK]

Hi , I'm looking for the jake Virtanen thread.

Anyone seen it?

[timberz21]

What about the Canucks defenseman draft picks? Edler(91st) and Bieksa(151st) were both Canucks draft picks. Tanev signed as a college UFA and is essentially a draft pick. That is half of the d-core. Also Corrado(150th) was a 5th rounder who looks like he will be an NHL d-man at some point.

In goal, Eddie Lack was signed as an undrafted UFA out of Sweden. Essentially the same as a draft pick.

Exaclty, we are OLD! Our last draft pick playing with us is Hansen in 2004. Our lame as our scouting have been between 2004 and 2012.

Yes we have late good picks, but we are old and no where near to be a contender. If we want to be our kids needs to play, not all at the same time, but Jensen should be up.

Different timelines chief.

We have some later round guys (Cassels, Suban, Cedarholm etc) or late 1st guys (McCann, Shinkaruk) who look to be "great picks later on" too.

You know what the difference is between those teams and ours is? We JUST drafted them like five minutes ago.

Schroeder, Hodgson, Grabner, White, Shirokov, Connauton, Sauvé were just as good as these guys "five minutes" after their draft too. None of them are playing for us.

Seriously, are we really that much better/worse with or without Jensen in our top 9. That's not going to be a difference maker wheter were in the playoff or not. However giving Jensen (or Horvat, or Shinkaruk) a full year in our top 9, can actually make a difference next year and two year from now, if that player can establish himself as a young, but core player of our team.

Edited October 23, 2014 by timberz21

[Gstank29]

Hi , I'm looking for the jake Virtanen thread.

Anyone seen it?

I believe its under the Prospects&Utica comets section

[aGENT]

Exaclty, we are OLD! Our last draft pick playing with us is Hansen in 2004. Our lame as our scouting have been between 2004 and 2012.

Yes we have late good picks, but we are old and no where near to be a contender. If we want to be our kids needs to play, not all at the same time, but Jensen should be up.

Schroeder, Hodgson, Grabner, White, Shirokov, Connauton, Sauvé were just as good as these guys "five minutes" after their draft too. None of them are playing for us.

Seriously, are we really that much better/worse with or without Jensen in our top 9. That's not going to be a difference maker wheter were in the playoff or not. However giving Jensen (or Horvat, or Shinkaruk) a full year in our top 9, can actually make a difference next year and two year from now, if that player can establish himself as a young, but core player of our team.

And Jensen will almost certainly see time here this season. You're entirely lacking patience and apparently in understanding the moves that will need to be made to make room for him (outside of injuries). We already arguably have too many forwards once Horvat's back (likely one of Matthias, Hansen or Dorsett sitting) and you want to add Jensen to that mix too?

In the mean time, it's best for Jensen's development (that thing you were whining about earlier) to be in Utica and ironing out some of the wrinkles in his still young game.

And to get this back around to Virt. IMO, if he'd been healthy he would have probably given the Canucks some hard decisions to make on where he'd be playing this season too. PATIENCE.

Edited October 23, 2014 by J.R.

[Jiggs50]

I believe its under the Prospects&Utica comets section

Lol clearly you missed the bus.