Canucks1219 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Regardless of what he did while he was injured, he missed a summer of training. That seems to be the key part that people are looking past. Sure he may be healthy, but he won`t be as fit or as strong as he would have been with a full summer of training. Add rust to that, and that may equal a slow start. Just be patient with him was the whole point. I`ve seen enough fans on here expect way too much out of young players, only to rip on them when they struggle. That's a solid point, but I still don't think 40 goals is quite as excessive as you're making it out to be. I wouldn't be surprised by a 35 goal campaign, a 40 goal campaign, or another 45 goal campaign. It's just that the team itself is much better this year and I expect that alone will be a real healthy boost to everyone's production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnipeshow91 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Lol. What a joke. Says the guy who constantly rips apart our prospects and calls them busts. Okay, lets always put lofty expectations on all of our prospects despite their circumstances, and then call them busts when they don't meet our high expectations. That sounds like a great way of being "positive about our prospects". You don't have to blow up on him just because he made a point that contradicts what you said. Makes you look like the joke, not him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 You don't have to blow up on him just because he made a point that contradicts what you said. Makes you look like the joke, not him. If you don`t know who BanTSN is, or haven`t seen the conversations we`ve had in the past, don`t bother commenting. And I would hardly call that blowing up on him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Lol. What a joke. Says the guy who constantly rips apart our prospects and calls them busts. Okay, lets always put lofty expectations on all of our prospects despite their circumstances, and then call them busts when they don't meet our high expectations. That sounds like a great way of being "positive about our prospects". If you are indeed all about positivity here, DeNiro, then why not be a bit more positive about Virtanen then? Especially when there are cases when shoulder injuries of this minor magnitude are total non-factors. The negativity in this particular case doesn't make much sense, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkyard Dog Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you don`t know who BanTSN is, or haven`t seen the conversations we`ve had in the past, don`t bother commenting. And I would hardly call that blowing up on him. If you are indeed all about positivity here, DeNiro, then why not be a bit more positive about Virtanen then? Especially when there are cases when shoulder injuries of this minor magnitude are total non-factors. The negativity in this particular case doesn't make much sense, that's all. Go Canucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you are indeed all about positivity here, DeNiro, then why not be a bit more positive about Virtanen then? Especially when there are cases when shoulder injuries of this minor magnitude are total non-factors. The negativity in this particular case doesn't make much sense, that's all. How am I being negative? If anything I'm being neutral. I'm saying don't set your expectations too high, not that he'll have a bad season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRAZY_4_NAZZY Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Its gunna take I'm predicting a month before Virtanen is fully back to form. The conditioning of game speed will be a bit of stretch for him despite how good a skater is. yes he has been doing practices and such since training camp+summer but none of that is like a real game situation. If you are indeed all about positivity here, DeNiro, then why not be a bit more positive about Virtanen then? Especially when there are cases when shoulder injuries of this minor magnitude are total non-factors. The negativity in this particular case doesn't make much sense, that's all. He hasn't said anything negative at all...he just told US as POSTERS to temper our expectations because Virtanen coming off a pretty serious injury will need some time before he catches up to speed. He will be rusty for a while before he catches up to speed of things. Minor? Whenever you need surgery Im sorry it is never considered minor. Missing around 4 months 1/3 of the year espeically big months where most players develop physically in the gym and lose a whole summer's worth of training is not something to brush aside. Edited October 19, 2014 by CRAZY_4_NAZZY 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niloc009 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 This thread is hilarious. Thinking a guy won't be up to speed right away after having shoulder surgery and not being able to train properly is horribly negative. Thinking a guy will score 40+ goals in about 50 games after having shoulder surgery? Yeah sounds about right Nobody is saying JV sucks. Judy temper your expectations, he'll need some time to get back into playing form. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Tamland Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 It will be nice if he gets half a point per game this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BanTSN Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Its gunna take I'm predicting a month before Virtanen is fully back to form. The conditioning of game speed will be a bit of stretch for him despite how good a skater is. yes he has been doing practices and such since training camp+summer but none of that is like a real game situation. He hasn't said anything negative at all...he just told US as POSTERS to temper our expectations because Virtanen coming off a pretty serious injury will need some time before he catches up to speed. He will be rusty for a while before he catches up to speed of things. Minor? Whenever you need surgery Im sorry it is never considered minor. Missing around 4 months 1/3 of the year espeically big months where most players develop physically in the gym and lose a whole summer's worth of training is not something to brush aside. I understand the thinking behind it, but as i've pointed out with Ritchie, it may be flawed thinking. But I suppose I have more faith in Virtanen's 'tool box' than some. ie. He's already physically developed, already has amazing speed and explosiveness, and still had an a-grade shot with a shoulder injury. He'll be just fine, thanks. In either event, this season is just a showcase for him again before he starts it up in the NHL. It's too bad he missed camp, because if he was in it he would've showed us all that he's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
on the cycle Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Calm down development is not just about putting up big offensive numbers. I would like Virtanen to work on rounding out his game defensively and being more offensively creative while also building back his strength and conditioning. I don't think he'll have a crazy offensive season. As deniro said, temper your expectation. I know the team is better this year but Virtanen was actually playing with two overagers last year so I don't think he'll automatically produce 45 goals and like 70-80 points he's going to have a slow start and less game in the season to get back because of the games missed to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks1219 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) I know the team is better this year but Virtanen was actually playing with two overagers last year WARNING - Very long post coming up... I heard this somewhere before, but another person had come and rebutted this. I was really curious about this, so I went and looked at EVERY goal that Virtanen scored last year to check the assists. From the player who assisted on MOST of the goals to LEAST. I have included their ages (entering the season) and position in brackets next to the players' names. Sorry it's a little difficult to read. Also, I've left asterisks next to the overagers. -[19/D] Helgesen - 13 *[20/C] Brassart - 9 -[19/D] Rissling - 9 -[17/LW] Fazleev - 6 -[18/C] Tambellini - 6 -[19/RW] Padakin - 5 -[17/D] Sanheim - 4 -[19/LW] Jones - 4 -[18/LW] Rankin - 3 *[20/D] Roach - 2 *[20/D] Zgraggen - 1 -[17/D] Thrower - 1 -[19/LW] Brooks - 1 -[18/D] Harmsworth - 1 -[19/RW] Mahon - 1 -[16/RW] Lang - 1 -[18/C] Chase - 1 -[18/LW] Peterson - 1 Unassisted - 4 So right off the bat, Jake could not have "played with" two overagers because only ONE of them was a forward. The only overagers who recorded assists on a Virtanen goal were Brassart (9), Zgraggen (1) and Roach (2). Of note: the latter two are defenseman. Okay, well, technically there was another overage player on the team (Spencer Galbraith) but he only played in 2 games, registering 0 points... so he's irrelevant here. That leaves us with Brassart who collected an assist on 9 of the 45 goals that Virtanen scored all year. To say that Virtanen scored 45 goals because he played with an overager is a misconception. I mean, 9 goals is still a decent number of goals, but when you think that 36 goals were NOT assisted by Brassart (the only overage forward*), well, it takes a different meaning. Incidentally, he and Greg Chase finished with 85 points each (35G , 50A) to lead the team. Jake was second with 71 points. Chase, however, only assisted on one Virtanen goal all year. Easy to say they weren't together much, if at all. The next 3 forwards to assist the most were Fazleev (6), Tambellini (6), and Padakin (5). Padakin, incidentally the oldest of those three at 19, had the highest point total (NOT points-per-game) at 54PTS in 66GP (27G , 27A). Tambellini, an 18 year old, had 39PTS in 31GP (17G , 22A). Fazleev, a fellow 17 year old 2014 draftee, had 25PTS in 38GP (5G , 20A). For what it's worth, Virtanen's goals to finish the year were often assisted by Tambellini. Now, let me reiterate that this doesn't mean that Virtanen did or did not play with certain players. And of course, I didn't list PP/SH goals either (yes, Virtanen scored while on the penalty kill). The data simply suggests that Virtanen's goals were not the result of overagers doing what overagers often do: dominate junior leagues. Did he have help from Brassart? Of course he did, but let's not act like an overage teammate had that much of an impact on his goal output. He had a wide range of help, most of which came from 18/19 year old players who, aside from Tambellini, aren't true offensive players. *excluding Galbraith, of course Source: http://www.hitmenhockey.com/roster/gamebygame/id/26161/ls_season/245 Edited October 20, 2014 by Canucks1219 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derp... Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 JAKE VIRTANEN! GOOOOOOOAAAAALLLLL!!!!!!! coming to TV's near you on october 24th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigturk8 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I understand the thinking behind it, but as i've pointed out with Ritchie, it may be flawed thinking. But I suppose I have more faith in Virtanen's 'tool box' than some. ie. He's already physically developed, already has amazing speed and explosiveness, and still had an a-grade shot with a shoulder injury. He'll be just fine, thanks. In either event, this season is just a showcase for him again before he starts it up in the NHL. It's too bad he missed camp, because if he was in it he would've showed us all that he's ready. I think most would hope that you're right about this. The message I'm getting is not to lose our minds if you're wrong. Should his production be slower, espicially off the bat, there is a good reason for it. Some on CDC tend to overreact without looking at all the variables. That being said, it's not unheard of for a player to come back without missing a beat and start producing right away. I hope this will be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 News1130 Sports@News1130Sports #Hitmen gm Mike Moore tells me Canucks #1 draft pick Jake Virtanen to play tomorrow night. 1st game since shoulder surgery in May. News1130 Sports@News1130Sports Moore says Virtanen has looked good in practice this week, shoulder took some bumps and grinds, timing still off but that will take time. News1130 Sports@News1130Sports Canadian world junior team head scout Ryan Jankowski and his staff finally get to see Virtanen play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mathew Barzal Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I want this kid to prove me wrong badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timberz21 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Doesn't matter how many Goals, Pts he scores, if he can't play both ways he won't be playing for the Canucks anytime soon. Another player who's talent will be wasted in the minor because he's no Selke candidate. We saw it with Grabner and Hodgson back then, now it's Jensen turns and soon Shinkaruk and Virtanen will be the same. We could put Kassian in that mix too (but he plays because he has size and can fight). We'd rather play 10-20G scorer, hand of stones like Hansen, Burrows, Richardson and Higgins but are responsible, than just giving a tiny tiny chance to an offensive player that has the potential of scoring 30, because he's no defensive specialist. The only two forwards in our line-up that we actually drafted are the Sedins and Hansen (Burrows wasn't drafted), and that was 15+ years ago (Sedin). That says a lot about our philosophy/development process. Edited October 23, 2014 by timberz21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollieo Del Fuego Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Doesn't matter how many Goals, Pts he scores, if he can't play both ways he won't be playing for the Canucks anytime soon. Another player who's talent will be wasted in the minor because he's no Selke candidate. We saw it with Grabner and Hodgson back then, now it's Jensen turns and soon Shinkaruk and Virtanen will be the same. We could put Kassian in that mix too (but he plays because he has size and can fight). We'd rather play 10-20G scorer, hand of stones like Hansen, Burrows, Richardson and Higgins but are responsible, than just giving a tiny tiny chance to an offensive player that has the potential of scoring 30, because he's no defensive specialist. The only two forwards in our line-up that we actually drafted are the Sedins and Hansen (Burrows wasn't drafted), and that was 15+ years ago (Sedin). That says a lot about our philosophy/development process. Uhmmm. the Sedins are two players ...so add Hansen .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Vintage Canuck- Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) News1130 Sports @News1130Sports Just talked with Jake Virtanen who is on his way to Cranbrook to play his 1st game in 6 months. #Canucks News1130 Sports @News1130Sports Virtanen says he took it slow at practice this week, will go out and play his game, won't rush things, use my teammates and work hard. News1130 Sports @News1130Sports Virtanen looking forward to the WHL Subway Series and impressing the Canadian Junior Team scouts as well. Edited October 23, 2014 by -Vintage Canuck- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Uhmmm. the Sedins are two players ...so add Hansen .... Also I'd like to point out how useless the whole thought process is. Firstly it doesn't account for players that we traded our prospects for that better fit team needs or how "our" prospects ended up performing (or not) elsewhere. It also doesn't consider the improvements made in both drafting and development the past ~3 years. So basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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