McCannon Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I like Jake but like many would have preferred Ehlers/Nylander and seeing their elite level skill certainly has many drooling in Winnipeg and Toronto. That being said, given our "team" and how it is being constructed, Jake was / is a player we needed and will need going foward. In addition, call it blind luck or smart drafting but the COMBO of McCann and Jake in that first round actually makes the Ehlers/Nyalnder debate moot. McCann has the potential to be as good or better than those guys so in the end we're better off since we have both an elite skilled forward and a tough as nails, power forward who hits to punish, can skate and can score at an elite level (he just isn't a guy that 'drives the play'). This last comment - driving the play is the area where I think Jake needs to develop. He has all the tools but seems to often be waiting for others to take charge then just 'support'. He has the speed to force defenders to take penalties on him, the speed to cause turnovers like Hansen (like we saw today), and the ability to get on top of defenseman and hit them so hard they remember and start thinking about if he's coming again - again often leading to turnovers. I think his brief stint in the NHL while positive, was a bit to early, but given his physical abilities and inability to go to the AHL was really the best starting point for him. However, I think he was/ is a bit star struck and again is 'sitting back' vs playing his game and taking it to defenders. Perhaps he's giving pro's 'too much credit', maybe its fear of making an error and getting stapled to the bench. Hopefully this world Juniors, playing with someone like marner, will get his offensive game going, and the coaches putting him in a top 2 line role will tell him he needs to be part of the group 'driving the bus'. Being relied upon should hopefully bring that offensive game back out and the mindset he needs to succeed at the NHL and live up to the expectations (which I think he can). Reality is, even if you see his interviews folks, he's still a 'kid'. He needs to mature, understand he is a pro and no longer the kid from abby that made the canucks at 19, and bring all his tools to his role. Bo was a freak that way, mature beyond his years, to me Jake, who will deliver all that in my view in time, just needs to realize you can't stand around being star struck, he needs to realize he belongs at the NHL level and play like it...I think right now, he's just 'happy to be here'. When he learns that he needs to deliver all his tools just like a Dorsett, a Bo, etc he will emerge. Whether that is one more year in junior, one in the AHL then NHL or straight back after the WJC who knows, time will tell. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Warhippy Posted December 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2015 22 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: These are the sorts of situations we need to be putting Jake in - ones where we know he'll have success and thrive. Develop his offensive game nicely as an overrager in the WJC and then WHL, then bring him back and bounce him between the AHL and NHL. Rushing him into the big league was the stupidest, most ignorant thing this coaching and management staff have done during their tenure. And also, everyone just calm down, this was an exhibition game where Jake is playing against guys far younger than himself. Two goals means nothing to me - I want to see him out there in the clutch situations scoring game tying or winning goals. When you look back at the greats of the WJC they're the kids scoring the clutch goals and hopefully that's Jake. Bad first game, good second game but come on, they're exhibition games, they mean absolutely nothing at all. Average age of team sweden...19 years 3 months. Jake Virtanen currently aged 19 years 5 months... FAR younger people... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robongo Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 hour ago, N4ZZY said: Who thinks Jake goes back to Calgary after the WJ's are done? Would be the best route, IMO. However John Shannon reported a few games ago that he spoke to Benning and Benning stated that he will NOT be going back to Calgary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 minute ago, Robongo said: Would be the best route, IMO. However John Shannon reported a few games ago that he spoke to Benning and Benning stated that he will NOT be going back to Calgary. Can't wait. Benning's gonna get bashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 5 minutes ago, Robongo said: Would be the best route, IMO. However John Shannon reported a few games ago that he spoke to Benning and Benning stated that he will NOT be going back to Calgary. might be good news for Jake then. pretty sure he would be happy to hear that. when he returns to the team. he needs to assert himself even more. don't be afraid of making mistakes. just go out there and play his game. learn from his mistakes and continue to grow. i think also that Benning and management may not trust the Hitmen organization to further Virtanen's development. which is why Benning and Co. are saying he goes back to the Canucks to develop. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canorth Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Deleted. Warhippy made the point. Edited December 23, 2015 by Canorth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 24 minutes ago, McCannon said: I like Jake but like many would have preferred Ehlers/Nylander and seeing their elite level skill certainly has many drooling in Winnipeg and Toronto. That being said, given our "team" and how it is being constructed, Jake was / is a player we needed and will need going foward. In addition, call it blind luck or smart drafting but the COMBO of McCann and Jake in that first round actually makes the Ehlers/Nyalnder debate moot. McCann has the potential to be as good or better than those guys so in the end we're better off since we have both an elite skilled forward and a tough as nails, power forward who hits to punish, can skate and can score at an elite level (he just isn't a guy that 'drives the play'). This last comment - driving the play is the area where I think Jake needs to develop. He has all the tools but seems to often be waiting for others to take charge then just 'support'. He has the speed to force defenders to take penalties on him, the speed to cause turnovers like Hansen (like we saw today), and the ability to get on top of defenseman and hit them so hard they remember and start thinking about if he's coming again - again often leading to turnovers. I think his brief stint in the NHL while positive, was a bit to early, but given his physical abilities and inability to go to the AHL was really the best starting point for him. However, I think he was/ is a bit star struck and again is 'sitting back' vs playing his game and taking it to defenders. Perhaps he's giving pro's 'too much credit', maybe its fear of making an error and getting stapled to the bench. Hopefully this world Juniors, playing with someone like marner, will get his offensive game going, and the coaches putting him in a top 2 line role will tell him he needs to be part of the group 'driving the bus'. Being relied upon should hopefully bring that offensive game back out and the mindset he needs to succeed at the NHL and live up to the expectations (which I think he can). Reality is, even if you see his interviews folks, he's still a 'kid'. He needs to mature, understand he is a pro and no longer the kid from abby that made the canucks at 19, and bring all his tools to his role. Bo was a freak that way, mature beyond his years, to me Jake, who will deliver all that in my view in time, just needs to realize you can't stand around being star struck, he needs to realize he belongs at the NHL level and play like it...I think right now, he's just 'happy to be here'. When he learns that he needs to deliver all his tools just like a Dorsett, a Bo, etc he will emerge. Whether that is one more year in junior, one in the AHL then NHL or straight back after the WJC who knows, time will tell. honestly. I think it may be best for Jake to go to the AHL to start the season next year. Allow Green to work with Virtanen and develop his game even more so. the AHL is more forgiving league than the NHL is. and Jake can really take off by playing his game and learning to get better. once it's obvious that he's outgrown the AHL and he's dominating that league. Call him up to the big leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 11 minutes ago, Robongo said: Would be the best route, IMO. However John Shannon reported a few games ago that he spoke to Benning and Benning stated that he will NOT be going back to Calgary. by the way. do you have a source for the comment that Benning made about Jake not going back to the Hitmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 2 hours ago, NHL'er said: It's only pre-tournament but Jake Virtanen with player of the game for Canada Evidently the decision is not based on intelligence. #datbrutalIQ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) I think what people are missing here is that we are at that point in time where we need rookies to learn in the very league they are growing into. We just don't have the depth we had even 3 years ago, so this is the perfect time to play these rookies in the lineup. I'm glad Virtanen's likely to come back to Vancouver after WJC because it will likely develop him faster than if he was sent back to Calgary. Will it result in less points and goals, etc at first? Of course it will and it has, but that doesn't mean Jake's not learning. It's the intangible that people (who want him back in juniors) don't see. He hasn't been horrible for us, and that's really what important I think. John Garrett wrote an interesting article about McCann and WJC today. I'm pretty sure it applies to Virtanen in some respects as well. He's even pointed out that some prospects (like Sam Reinhart) actually had half as many points in junior that they had the previous season when sent back to junior. Virtanen could just as easily respond poorly to being sent back. It's not all roses down in junior, especially if you're already adjusting your game to the NHL level. I actually think sending Virtanen back to the WHL will hamper his game more than if he came back to Vancouver. While I can see people's points with the AHL. that's obviously not an option for us at this point in time, so the next best thing is to continue learning the pace of the very league he's working to develop into. Edited December 23, 2015 by The Lock 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharbinder Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 28 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said: These are the sorts of situations we need to be putting Jake in - ones where we know he'll have success and thrive. Develop his offensive game nicely as an overrager in the WJC and then WHL, then bring him back and bounce him between the AHL and NHL. Rushing him into the big league was the stupidest, most ignorant thing this coaching and management staff have done during their tenure. And also, everyone just calm down, this was an exhibition game where Jake is playing against guys far younger than himself. Two goals means nothing to me - I want to see him out there in the clutch situations scoring game tying or winning goals. When you look back at the greats of the WJC they're the kids scoring the clutch goals and hopefully that's Jake. Bad first game, good second game but come on, they're exhibition games, they mean absolutely nothing at all. Far younger than himself? He is less than a month away from being eligible for the 2015 draft instead of 2014. He also played on the 2015 WJC team, where he in 7 games he had (1G-4A-5P). Not bad considering the only players younger than him were Laweson Crouse (who was used in a 4th line checking role) & Connor McDavid (obviously in another league skill wise). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMapleLaughs Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 29 minutes ago, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Can't wait. Benning's gonna get bashed. John Shannon also spoke to God and his great-great-great grandfather awhile ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Gosh I love this thread I saw Gooseberries in this thread during the game, I guess he went back under his bridge when he saw how Virtanen was doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 12 minutes ago, TOMapleLaughs said: John Shannon also spoke to God and his great-great-great grandfather awhile ago. Sure, sure , sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 4 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: Gosh I love this thread I saw Gooseberries in this thread during the game, I guess he went back under his bridge when he saw how Virtanen was doing Remember Gstank, its only an exhibition game against one of the best teams in this years WJC, so it doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Just now, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: Remember Gstank, its only an exhibition game against one of the best teams in this years WJC, so it doesn't count. So does the game against the US count as a warmup as well? since it's the first game of the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CANUCK-EXPRESS Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 2 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: So does the game against the US count as a warmup as well? since it's the first game of the tournament. umm we will have to see... it depends how Virts does really. If he plays good, it's only the first real game of the tournament so it probably won't count. However, if he does poorly, of course it counts, it is the first game of the tournament, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gstank29 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Just now, CANUCK-EXPRESS said: umm we will have to see... it depends how Virts does really. If he plays good, it's only the first real game of the tournament so it probably won't count. However, if he does poorly, of course it counts, it is the first game of the tournament, no? Well we all know the only game that matters is the Gold Medal game, so I guess all of the other games don't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 7 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: Well we all know the only game that matters is the Gold Medal game, so I guess all of the other games don't matter. So if we don't make the goal medal game it'll be Virtanen's fault right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clam linguine Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) 44 minutes ago, The Lock said: Virtanen could just as easily respond poorly to being sent back. It's not all roses down in junior, especially if you're already adjusting your game to the NHL level. Michael dal Colle would agree. I remember hoping he would fall to us in the draft. He is struggling mightily after being sent back to junior by the Islanders. Not sure if it would be good for Jake or not though. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=145014 Edited December 23, 2015 by clam linguine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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