Jake Virtanen | #18 | RW

[Toews]

17 minutes ago, Where'd Luongo? said:

Virtanen is struggling yes, but I feel like he would have more points than Megna, Chaput, and Skille if he would have been left on the Canucks and given their opportunity. Did he deserve it? No, but I think he is better than they are.

Why is that? Chaput has more points in 10 games with Utica than Jake has in 42. The last time Megna was in the AHL he was a ppg player. Gaunce went down to the AHL and scored more points in a weekend than Jake had in the last month or so. Those guys are experienced pros as well, they stay in shape, they work hard and they do what is asked of them despite their limited skillset. Jake has better tools than them but until he learns how to use them he is well behind even AHL lifers like Chaput.

[VanGnome]

Was listening to BMac, Donnie and Moj earlier this evening, and they received fan reports out of Utica that Virtanen is shying away from physical contact and avoiding using the shoulder he injured last year.

Man, I blame Benning solely for rushing him to be with the big club last year. I hope he gets whatever damage is done repaired so he can get back on track. As evidenced by E. Kane's resurgence, you can recover fully from shoulder issues.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

Was listening to BMac, Donnie and Moj earlier this evening, and they received fan reports out of Utica that Virtanen is shying away from physical contact and avoiding using the shoulder he injured last year.

Man, I blame Benning solely for rushing him to be with the big club last year. I hope he gets whatever damage is done repaired so he can get back on track. As evidenced by E. Kane's resurgence, you can recover fully from shoulder issues.

Jake was coming off serious shoulder surgery when we drafted him too.  It's actually an old injury he keeps hurting.

[Toews]

Just now, Alflives said:

Jake was coming off serious shoulder surgery when we drafted him too.  It's actually an old injury he keeps hurting.

There were people here who voiced concerns before the draft about his shoulder but many including me shot them down with the argument that he is still young and at an age where he can recover from any injury. Looks like they were more right than they got credit for at the time.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Toews said:

There were people here who voiced concerns before the draft about his shoulder but many including me shot them down with the argument that he is still young and at an age where he can recover from any injury. Looks like they were more right than they got credit for at the time.

I used to defend Jake on here too, but it was about his off ice behaviour, and how he was young and will grow out of it.  I sure hope he shows up to camp in September in tip top, lean shape.  I doubt he will though.

[Toews]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I used to defend Jake on here too, but it was about his off ice behaviour, and how he was young and will grow out of it.  I sure hope he shows up to camp in September in tip top, lean shape.  I doubt he will though.

I am not sure about that one either though. IMO he bulked up because that is what he thought was expected of him. Most young players his age try and bulk up in the offseason because at that age you get easily knocked off the puck by older, stronger opponents. Jake did not have that problem as he was already physically mature. He may have thought that adding more weight to his frame would be an asset but he miscalculated how much it would affect his speed. I am not sure how much of this is lack of commitment as opposed to a young player that does not know what weight he should be playing at.

[VanGnome]

By and large however, I've got a feeling that Jake has plenty of time to get himself sorted out. We just need to have patience with him.

[VanGnome]

Just now, Toews said:

I am not sure about that one either though. IMO he bulked up because that is what he thought was expected of him. Most young players his age try and bulk up in the offseason because at that age you get easily knocked off the puck by older, stronger opponents. Jake did not have that problem as he was already physically mature. He may have thought that adding more weight to his frame would be an asset but he miscalculated how much it would affect his speed. I am not sure how much of this is lack of commitment as opposed to a young player that does not know what weight he should be playing at.

Listening to 1040 as well, a listener advised everyone that the CBA prevents strength and conditioning staff from interacting with players during the off-season. Basically they give him a plan for the summer and maybe it was misinterpreted. Either way, it seems counter intuitive (no interaction), but maybe he wasn't advised to attend a summer development camp, say like the one run by Gary Roberts.

The guy knows how to develop prospects, so maybe thats what Jake needs during the off-season until he can get accustomed to a self policed regimen. Could be part of that whole "maturation" process. For what its worth, I think maybe being around guys like Kassian was actually a bad influence on Jake last year, and he just got caught up in the spotlight.

I've heard TL reference Jakes time in Utica as him "learning how to be a pro", so under the tutelage of TG, I can see him making an impact once Green takes over the head coaching duties in Vancouver.

In the mean time, I think they can WD at the end of the season, Doug Jarvis takes over and Green gets at least 1-2 more seasons with the guys coming up in Utica, and then they all ascend together to the NHL. Fits in with the Sedin retirement timeline as well.

[Toews]

1 minute ago, VanGnome said:

Listening to 1040 as well, a listener advised everyone that the CBA prevents strength and conditioning staff from interacting with players during the off-season. Basically they give him a plan for the summer and maybe it was misinterpreted. Either way, it seems counter intuitive (no interaction), but maybe he wasn't advised to attend a summer development camp, say like the one run by Gary Roberts.

The guy knows how to develop prospects, so maybe thats what Jake needs during the off-season until he can get accustomed to a self policed regimen. Could be part of that whole "maturation" process. For what its worth, I think maybe being around guys like Kassian was actually a bad influence on Jake last year, and he just got caught up in the spotlight.

I've heard TL reference Jakes time in Utica as him "learning how to be a pro", so under the tutelage of TG, I can see him making an impact once Green takes over the head coaching duties in Vancouver.

In the mean time, I think they can WD at the end of the season, Doug Jarvis takes over and Green gets at least 1-2 more seasons with the guys coming up in Utica, and then they all ascend together to the NHL. Fits in with the Sedin retirement timeline as well.

Unless Jake was in rehab with Kassian I am not sure that had much influence on him.

[VanGnome]

34 minutes ago, Toews said:

Unless Jake was in rehab with Kassian I am not sure that had much influence on him.

I thought there was a brief overlap before Kassian left and Virtanen arrived. I know he was partying it up with McCann before he was shipped off for Gudbranson

[canuckledraggin]

41 minutes ago, VanGnome said:

Was listening to BMac, Donnie and Moj earlier this evening, and they received fan reports out of Utica that Virtanen is shying away from physical contact and avoiding using the shoulder he injured last year.

Man, I blame Benning solely for rushing him to be with the big club last year. I hope he gets whatever damage is done repaired so he can get back on track. As evidenced by E. Kane's resurgence, you can recover fully from shoulder issues.

B-mac especially finds a way to get in a dig about Jake every afternoon, but without watching him play it would be tough to get a read on his play. That was true for his 1st couple months in Utica and only recently has his physical play increased. His backchecking, positioning and gap control have all improved and his shift length has increased. The Comets played a pretty tidy game yesterday in spite of the loss in overtime.

 

The thing that he does that doesn't translate when watching the television feed is take off early from the defensive zone. He always leaves early to get in position for a stretch pass that never comes. I'd like to see him support his defensemen more for the easy outlet pass, but he is thinking offense and trying to create with his speed. 

[Toews]

1 minute ago, VanGnome said:

I thought there was a brief overlap before Kassian left and Virtanen arrived. I know he was partying it up with McCann before he was shipped off for Gudbranson

You might be right.

[Salmonberries]

On 2/19/2017 at 6:31 PM, guntrix said:

He seemed genuinely lost in the offensive zone, as if he were overthinking his positioning, role, etc. He even hesitated on a few plays where I think he could've gotten to the puck before the other guy had he not second guessed himself for a split second. 

 

I wouldn't attribute his play to his linemates simply because they looked much more dangerous and engaged than he did. If anything, he looked like the weak link. 

 

Like Alf mentioned, I'd try giving him a looser role to see what happens. It seems like Green's trying to instil too much structure into a player who previously succeeded using pure natural ability.

I think Green is trying to train him for a bottom six role on the Canucks. If he picks up what Green is putting down maybe we'll see him on the big club next year.

[alfstonker]

On 2/21/2017 at 0:03 AM, gurn said:

The part that grinds my gears is the bit about Jake not being in shape, which to me was and is false. He spent almost everyday in the summer working out, unfortunately he was doing the wrong type of work. He was too heavy for his leg strength and lost some speed. Over the course of this season he has shed the muscle mass he did not need and I look forward to him having a good solid ending to this season.

 If he doesn't make the team in the next 3 years I will be willing to call him a bad pick.

So you don't believe what Green and JB said at the time. Even on the video taken during the off season he looked flabby. But hey put a player on the ice for 15 secs and watch him struggle to the bench sucking air out his ass MUST mean he is super fit right?

[Phat Fingers]

On 2017-02-20 at 9:51 PM, Pete M said:

I remember watching a Sedin interview where they were asked how they changed to become successful NHL players. The Sedins first 3 years were disappointing to a point where they thought about staying in Sweden to play; however, the 4th year, they went back to Sweden to train and decided to start playing the game they knew how to play that got them drafted. From that point on, the Sedins excelled and started to play to expectation. They started playing their way.

 

Jake, on the other hand, used his size, speed, skill and physicality to produce at the junior level (when he wanted to). Even at the junior level, he was inconsistent.

At the NHL level, those physical attributes, the ones Jake used in junior to produce, are not as dominant because there are more bigger, faster and skilled players.

Therefore, Jake needs to learn how to play a pro game in addition to using his physical attributes. This might explain why he is thinking rather than reacting to the play, which puts him a step behind the play.

May be Jake needs to rely more on those physical attributes, the ones that got him drafted, and be confident in his abilities in order to play his game. The inconsistency, however, is something he needs to eliminate from his game because it has always been there.

Just did a seminar on desicion making. For it was about clinical decisions made in the emergency setting, but I would imagin it works the same way across the board. The main point was the difference between intuitive thinking (fast) and analytical thinking (slow). In Paramedicine, the goal is to be analytical, but with experience and practice analytical thinking becomes intuitive.

 

This works the same way with learning newer skills and algorithms.  The experienced person has been there before and has much faster reaction time and has learned to anticipate outcomes.  The older experienced Paramedic makes things look a lot easier than the new guy.  The new guy is having to devote more time and energy to interpreting data, processing and then executing and acting.  They may get to the same place, but have different processes.  

 

This is what Jake is going thru. He is having to practise and take a lot of reps to speed up his thought process. If he has never had to rely upon anything but his natural abilities and intuition until now, it will take some time to adjust.  He might be using his brain muscle for the first time . Luckily the cure is exactly what Jake is doing, reps, coaching and lots of practise. The more he works on his head game, the sooner his natural abilities can be exploited.  

 

EW

Edited February 24, 2017 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[Ajax-]

12 hours ago, Toews said:

Why is that? Chaput has more points in 10 games with Utica than Jake has in 42. The last time Megna was in the AHL he was a ppg player. Gaunce went down to the AHL and scored more points in a weekend than Jake had in the last month or so. Those guys are experienced pros as well, they stay in shape, they work hard and they do what is asked of them despite their limited skillset. Jake has better tools than them but until he learns how to use them he is well behind even AHL lifers like Chaput.

Bang on

[Spitfire_Spiky]

16 hours ago, Spoderman said:

Now we just need to trade him for the next Naslund and we'll be set...

 

On another note I really hope he can turn his game around and become the player we we're hoping he would be when we drafter him. He has the tools to be great players just needs to get it together and start producing on the ice.

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, VanGnome said:

I thought there was a brief overlap before Kassian left and Virtanen arrived. I know he was partying it up with McCann before he was shipped off for Gudbranson

If Virtanen's biggest problem is his off ice behavior, doesn't that show a lack of character?  Doesn't JB say he drafts for character?  Why did he pick Virtanen then?  

[Spitfire_Spiky]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If Virtanen's biggest problem is his off ice behavior, doesn't that show a lack of character?  Doesn't JB say he drafts for character?  Why did he pick Virtanen then?  

You've brought this up before but I don't think you can pin it solely on JB. I agree it is a lack of character that is hurting Jake with the off season weight issues, partying(if true), and his overall compete level is just not where it needs to be right now. However when he was drafted he was of not legal age yet so the partying was not really an option and he wasn't in his hometown with friends influencing him. From his interviews and based off his coaches he was a character guy in Calgary with the Hitmen and his biggest knock was his hockey IQ(which i believe is still something he needs work on). I think once he made the Canucks and was back in his hometown, now of legal age and with his friends he grew up is when the character issues started to surface, which in retrospect is not JBs fault.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Spitfire_Spiky said:

You've brought this up before but I don't think you can pin it solely on JB. I agree it is a lack of character that is hurting Jake with the off season weight issues, partying(if true), and his overall compete level is just not where it needs to be right now. However when he was drafted he was of not legal age yet so the partying was not really an option and he wasn't in his hometown with friends influencing him. From his interviews and based off his coaches he was a character guy in Calgary with the Hitmen and his biggest knock was his hockey IQ(which i believe is still something he needs work on). I think once he made the Canucks and was back in his hometown, now of legal age and with his friends he grew up is when the character issues started to surface, which in retrospect is not JBs fault.

I can accept that.  Although, young guys (even under age) party, don't they?  I have no information regarding Jake's behavior in Calgary, but I'm wondering if the Canuck's had concerns, and that's why they kept him here instead of sending him back for his final year with the Hitmen?