[Report] Burrows' Said No To Waiving NTC

[-DLC-]

That's it right there, and it goes for anyone, including Crosby or Toews, or Virtanen or anyone period. If someone still says "no", then they are thinking with their heart and not their head, and essentially do not ultimately care how the team performs.

So how do you "know" what the right deal is? (hint: you don't)

Edmonton thought their young guns were "right" - they haven't been.

The team isn't guaranteed to "perform" based on an individual coming/going...it's a team. There's NOTHING to say that you remove parts, replace them with new ones (like you would a car) and it'll run better. There could be coaching issues. Guys can hit slumps or peak and there's NO way to predict that.

It's a crapshoot and you do the best you can in putting players in place who can perform. In my view, Burr still can and those assessing his recent play are thinking with their eyes, not their head. He was injured and has been slow to rebound. Juice was too, bet you don't remember those days. I certainly do - everyone was calling for his head too.

[Senpai]

So how do you "know" what the right deal is? (hint: you don't)

Edmonton thought their young guns were "right" - they haven't been.

The team isn't guaranteed to "perform" based on an individual coming/going...it's a team. There's NOTHING to say that you remove parts, replace them with new ones (like you would a car) and it'll run better. There could be coaching issues. Guys can hit slumps or peak and there's NO way to predict that.

It's a crapshoot and you do the best you can in putting players in place who can perform. In my view, Burr still can and those assessing his recent play are thinking with their eyes, not their head. He was injured and has been slow to rebound. Juice was too, bet you don't remember those days. I certainly do - everyone was calling for his head too.

Benning knows more about hockey than all of us do combined.

If he traded Burrows, i'm sure he knows what he's doing

[Gaudette Celly]

A. So based on your logic, a players value is simple based on points - that is EXACTLY what you just suggested by implication

B. By implication this shows you lack an understanding of what building a winner entails.

Your first assumption is false, I simply referenced that his stats had declined. Thus your second statement does not follow and is false as well. My contention is NOT based on his declining production, you are reading that in from others' comments and thus projecting.

C. You are suggesting there is no value in how Burr can teach, lead, and still contribute offensively at a 2nd/3rd line winger.

Never said or implied anything in that regard whatsoever.

D. You are suggesting we trade a player (that if he had a normal year last year) would be in the top 25 of goal scorers in the NHL over the last 5 years (around names like Kopitar, Patrick Kane, Tavares etc), at the LOWEST POSSIBLE MOMENT of his career.

Now tell me, please, how that is beneficial to the Canucks....It is not. Regardless of how you feel about him as a player, trading him now is stupid. It's not about warm and fuzzies.

Hey if he rebounds and gets 25-30, and we aren't looking like we are going to be in the playoffs and some team throws us an offer that's really great, I don't think many here would argue.

But suggesting we trade him now, where we will be held hostage as it being a cap dump is simply ridiculous.

Look at what we got for Kesler, an ok deal with upside. You think we'll get anything near what Burrows can still bring to this team? No way...

Okay, I guess you're still missing the point. I'm not saying "TRADE HIM!" I'm saying that if the deal is there to help the team you do it. According to the report, JB had a deal on the table and was prepared to pull the trigger. If he truly believed it was the right thing to do for the team, he must do it. He certainly would have taken all the things we talk about and more into consideration. I am very much opposed to trading off draft picks and prospects, but if Buffalo offered their three first-rounders next year for Virtanen, do I not do it?

[-DLC-]

Benning knows more about hockey than all of us do combined.

If he traded Burrows, i'm sure he knows what he's doing

So it's foolproof?

I see this happen here all the time...we need a saviour. Someone who will know/be it all. But be prepared for some disappointment...JB is human and doesn't KNOW everything. He knows hockey and will try his best but, with that (and again) these are individuals - human beings. So he doesn't program into his magic hockey CNC machine and make the perfect team.

If he makes trades, he's trying to do what's right - doesn't necessarily guarantee it will be. I'm behind him 100% but don't believe in the magic hockey fairy or simply building a dream team that has no risk of failure. Anyhow, time will tell.

[apollo]

Benning knows more about hockey than all of us do combined.

If he traded Burrows, i'm sure he knows what he's doing

No I disagree. Just because a guy is a gm doesn't mean he is a better judge of talent than someone who isn't a gm.

I've watched burr play at least 500 games more than benning has. If he wanted to trade burr it just shows he's incompetent and knows nothing about what he brings to the team.

Burr had some bad injuries last year... That's it. Good players do have bad years. Burr will rebound this year and benning will look like an idiot for asking him to waive.

Thank you dragon slayer for not waiving. The actual fans love you.

[Senpai]

No I disagree. Just because a guy is a gm doesn't mean he is a better judge of talent than someone who isn't a gm.

I've watched burr play at least 500 games more than benning has. If he wanted to trade burr it just shows he's incompetent and knows nothing about what he brings to the team.

Burr had some bad injuries last year... That's it. Good players do have bad years. Burr will rebound this year and benning will look like an idiot for asking him to waive.

Thank you dragon slayer for not waiving. The actual fans love you.

Like i said, it all depends on the deal.

What happens if we find out the deal was Crosby for Burrows and Burrows said no? How would you feel? I'd probably be pretty pissed off. Obviously that's never going to happen, but like i said, it really all depends on the deal.

[Ryan Strome]

I think this whole board understands your love for Burrows..But how can you say no if there was a deal in place that was Burrows for a top 10 pick straight up?I love Burrows, but honestly, if the right deal is there, i'd trade him. He's not one of those players where "you can offer the entire world but he still isn't being traded". If the right deal is there, i'm more than happy to trade him.

Burrows won't land you a top 10 pick. His most value is to the Canucks.

[Senpai]

Burrows won't land you a top 10 pick. His most value is to the Canucks.

He wouldn't even land you a first.

I'm just saying, if the right package is there, we would be crazy not to trade him. I don't care which player we're talking about, if the right package is there, you do it.

[Gaudette Celly]

???? No idea why you quoted my post. This is exactly what I have been arguing.

'Cuz I'm agreeing with you, buddy Just trying to elucidate a lil...

So how do you "know" what the right deal is? (hint: you don't)

You're absolutely right -- I don't. BUT... as Senpai said, Benning does, and apparently he had a trade worked out. I trust his judgement above any of ours here. Do you?

[Senpai]

So how do you "know" what the right deal is? (hint: you don't)

Edmonton thought their young guns were "right" - they haven't been.

The team isn't guaranteed to "perform" based on an individual coming/going...it's a team. There's NOTHING to say that you remove parts, replace them with new ones (like you would a car) and it'll run better. There could be coaching issues. Guys can hit slumps or peak and there's NO way to predict that.

It's a crapshoot and you do the best you can in putting players in place who can perform. In my view, Burr still can and those assessing his recent play are thinking with their eyes, not their head. He was injured and has been slow to rebound. Juice was too, bet you don't remember those days. I certainly do - everyone was calling for his head too.

Hah, well, the Canucks aren't the Oilers, so we're already beating them in that department alone

But yes, it is a total crapshoot. But that's how you build a hockey team, you make/take risks. That's the whole point of the sport, is to take risks and build a team, and sometimes it takes bold moves. Do they always workout? Heeeellllll naaaww, in fact, i'm pretty sure it's really 50/50 if you looked at every trade in the history of the NHL. But that's the point. You HAVE to take risks.

[RUPERTKBD]

And as I mentioned, you can't get fair value for him right now anyways, so your whole point is moot.

Well the entire argument is pointless then, because I clearly said "if the deal helps the team". The rumored deal with the Devils would have done so, IMO.

FTR: I usually agree that it's a bad idea trading someone coming off a poor season, because you won't get value for him. However, I think teams realize what Burrows brings to the table and I'm sure they understand that injuries had a lot to do with his sub-par season last year. I don't think it will change his value too much to a team that is looking for the type of player he has shown he can be.

OTOH, another year makes him 34 and if for some reason, his production doesn't get back to where he's used to being, then you get even less value for him.

In the end, it's a bit of a crapshoot with older players. However, IMHO, if someone makes you an offer that makes sense, you make the deal.

[CanucksCup2018]

So how do you "know" what the right deal is? (hint: you don't)

Edmonton thought their young guns were "right" - they haven't been.

The team isn't guaranteed to "perform" based on an individual coming/going...it's a team. There's NOTHING to say that you remove parts, replace them with new ones (like you would a car) and it'll run better. There could be coaching issues. Guys can hit slumps or peak and there's NO way to predict that.

It's a crapshoot and you do the best you can in putting players in place who can perform. In my view, Burr still can and those assessing his recent play are thinking with their eyes, not their head. He was injured and has been slow to rebound. Juice was too, bet you don't remember those days. I certainly do - everyone was calling for his head too.

plus the part that people calling for a trade are ignoring and is somewhat contradictory to their own desires for a trade, the value back.

A. They say trade him

B. They ignore that GMs will argue that he had a God awful year and therefore we get nothing back - seen as a cap dump

C. Ignore that what we would receive in a trade is therefore of less value than what he can still bring here (therefore his value as a canuck is higher).

D. Then will argue, in a somewhat contradictory fashion to their own argument that he is worth alot to playoff teams - yet say he's not worth alot here...

This whole thread has been started because an Idiot named Botch (hey botch ya I know you are reading this thread since it makes you happy), makes up a story.

I GUARANTEE, Burr was never asked to waive. And I'll also tell you this, Botch is pretty close to being banned from the Nucks dressing room...oh boy won't that be fun for his career.

[RUPERTKBD]

He wouldn't even land you a first.

I'm just saying, if the right package is there, we would be crazy not to trade him. I don't care which player we're talking about, if the right package is there, you do it.

Yet the rumored deal was a first and a prospect.

We're not talking about letting Burrows go for peanuts here guys. It's only if the deal is to the benefit of the team.

[Senpai]

Yet the rumored deal was a first and a prospect.

We're not talking about letting Burrows go for peanuts here guys. It's only if the deal is to the benefit of the team.

Was it? Oh, thanks, i honestly had no idea since i just got into this thread.. Any idea who the prospect is? Now i'm interested LOL

And yes, i'm definitely not talking about him just walking, cause that would be stupid. But if we could be assets that would help us? Sure, i'm all for it.

[Gaudette Celly]

I see this happen here all the time...we need a saviour. Someone who will know/be it all. But be prepared for some disappointment...JB is human and doesn't KNOW everything. He knows hockey and will try his best but, with that (and again) these are individuals - human beings. So he doesn't program into his magic hockey CNC machine and make the perfect team.

If he makes trades, he's trying to do what's right - doesn't necessarily guarantee it will be. I'm behind him 100% but don't believe in the magic hockey fairy or simply building a dream team that has no risk of failure. Anyhow, time will tell.

You're behind him 100%, but not when it comes to possibly trading Burrows? Does that also happen to be the case where he doesn't know everything, and implicitly that you know better?

No I disagree. Just because a guy is a gm doesn't mean he is a better judge of talent than someone who isn't a gm.

I've watched burr play at least 500 games more than benning has. If he wanted to trade burr it just shows he's incompetent and knows nothing about what he brings to the team.

Burr had some bad injuries last year... That's it. Good players do have bad years. Burr will rebound this year and benning will look like an idiot for asking him to waive.

Thank you dragon slayer for not waiving. The actual fans love you.

Wow, so if Benning wants to trade Burrows, it matters not what the return is, he would be incompetent. Really? If he trades Burrows straight up for Reinhart and he puts up 50 points with Buffalo, Benning will look like an idiot?

I'm afraid that "actual fans" are the ones that cheer for and advocate the betterment of the TEAM, not one single player with which some seem to have an inseparable emotional attachment.

[Senpai]

TIL I am not a "true Canucks fan" because i would deal Burrows for the right package.

OK

[apollo]

You're behind him 100%, but not when it comes to possibly trading Burrows? Does that also happen to be the case where he doesn't know everything, and implicitly that you know better?

Wow, so if Benning wants to trade Burrows, it matters not what the return is, he would be incompetent. Really? If he trades Burrows straight up for Reinhart and he puts up 50 points with Buffalo, Benning will look like an idiot?

I'm afraid that "actual fans" are the ones that cheer for and advocate the betterment of the TEAM, not one single player with which some seem to have an inseparable emotional attachment.

You are insane to think burrows would land us Reinhart.

Return would be minimal compared to what burrows value to this team is. On and off the ice.

[Senpai]

You are insane to think burrows would land us Reinhart.

Return would be minimal compared to what burrows value to this team is. On and off the ice.

Exact same thing could have been said about Luongo/Kesler.

Lol.

EDIT: In fact, wasn't Kesler referred to as the "engine" of this team for years? Moreoever, he was also considered the "heart and soul" of this team.

[Gaudette Celly]

plus the part that people calling for a trade are ignoring and is somewhat contradictory to their own desires for a trade, the value back.

A. They say trade him

B. They ignore that GMs will argue that he had a God awful year and therefore we get nothing back - seen as a cap dump

C. Ignore that what we would receive in a trade is therefore of less value than what he can still bring here (therefore his value as a canuck is higher).

Dude, how many times do we have to say it -- if a deal is there, trade him... trade ANYONE -- if the deal is right. You are doing nothing more than strawmanning now. Please address the argument we are actually making.

[RUPERTKBD]

Was it? Oh, thanks, i honestly had no idea since i just got into this thread.. Any idea who the prospect is? Now i'm interested LOL

And yes, i'm definitely not talking about him just walking, cause that would be stupid. But if we could be assets that would help us? Sure, i'm all for it.

I have to amend my earlier comment. The actual quote was "a D prospect and a high pick", whatever that means

BTW, you and Grizz shouldn't bother arguing with apollo. He has very strong opinions, and very few of them are based in reality.