[Report] Burrows' Said No To Waiving NTC

[wallstreetamigo]

Some of us have played hockey competitively. For many years, in fact.

The point you're missing is that some of us aren't advocating moving Burrows because he had one bad season, it's because he's a declining asset that won't be able to contribute by the time this team is in a position to contend for a Cup.

That being the case, some of us would be okay with dealing him, as long as it was to the long term benefit of the Vancouver Canucks.

The problem with some of the people on the other side of the argument is that they are still living in the past, where Burrows' OT winner against the 'Hawks is a valid argument for keeping him around, 3 years after the fact.

This

Sooner or later it comes down to contract and asset management.

[BCNeil]

Who are all these other teams fighting to get Burrows. I haven't read all 19 pages of this thread, but I haven't read anyone mention teams that have shown interest???

[RUPERTKBD]

I'm not in the mood to argue... Ima let u finish and all but burrows is going to score 25+ again this year and as usual be an amazing two way player and contribute on special teams.

Maybe he will. In fact, I hope he does, but that won't make our point any less valid. What we're advocating is moving him for someone who will score 25+ goals, five years from now, when the Canucks (hopefully) are once again contenders.

Further to that point, a 25 goal season for Burrows will make me even more keen to move him, since it would (theoretically, at least) increase his trade value.

[SuperReverb2]

Who are all these other teams fighting to get Burrows. I haven't read all 19 pages of this thread, but I haven't read anyone mention teams that have shown interest???

The New Jersey Devils did for one. That was the team that Burrows refused to waive his NTC for and the reason this thread was started. As far as I know it's not known whether NJ requested Burrows or Benning offered Burrows, but it's a given that NJ was willing to take burrows in whatever trade Benning and NJ had worked out. Not sure if it was the beginning and the end for trade talks re Burrows, (i.e. I'm not interested in waiving my NTC at all) or whether he simply refused to go the NJ and there is a possibility that we may be willing to waive for some other team. (Montreal has been suggested/speculated as a possible team he may waive for)

[Barry_Wilkins]

I haven't been following the Burrows alleged trade spec too closely, but if Benning actually did request Alex to waive his NTC, it's fun to speculate on what's churning through the GM's head.

Benning has said he wants to get bigger and younger. Burrows, obviously, is neither, and has that relatively fat cap hit. Also, does the 4.5 mil per cut it if Burrows gets relegated to the third line this year, which, considering his struggles last season, is a real possibility?

Maybe Benning is afraid Burrows won't be the Sedins third wheel, or a fixture on line 2 for most of the year, and is hoping, for example, that Jensen can take the next step (with Bonino and Kassian as linemates). Or even that there could be a surprise out of training camp and pre-season. Or that what he was being offered from NJ was a comparable fit on the 2nd line.

In any event, I like that Benning is looking 4 or 5 steps down the line, not just about getting into the playoffs next year.

If the rumours are true, and Burrows refuses to waive, though, it's all rather moot. They've used their buyouts, and Burrows has too much value to just waive him.

[JamesStar]

Burrows will have a career year coming up....always battled to get to the NHL....some competition at RW for the Sedins will push him....Vrbata replaces Booth....still haven't replaced Kesler....but the young guns have to beat the vets for the job, they can play their way to experience in the AHL....would like a veteran mix ...Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk can earn top 6 mins in Utica.....Jensen has to earn a spot, you need more than a toe drag and shot off the wing in the NHL....

[PetrPrucha25]

Burrows will have a career year coming up....always battled to get to the NHL....some competition at RW for the Sedins will push him....Vrbata replaces Booth....still haven't replaced Kesler....but the young guns have to beat the vets for the job, they can play their way to experience in the AHL....would like a veteran mix ...Horvat, Gaunce, Shinkaruk can earn top 6 mins in Utica.....Jensen has to earn a spot, you need more than a toe drag and shot off the wing in the NHL....

So you think Burrows is going to post 35+ goals and 67+ points?

lol

[Drop Em]

RUPERTKBD, sorry but my reply with quote thing still doesn't seem to work. But in response to your reply to my post. We all realize that there's more that goes into a trade than just simply changing uniforms. However, these guys are professional athletes and know what they signed up for. It's a business. And although Burrows has every right to not waive his NMC that the village idiot Gillis gave to him, he has to realize that he isn't wanted on the team.

They are most definitely going in a different direction, trying to get bigger which Burrows isn't, trying to get younger, despite the free agent signings, which Burrows isn't, trying to shake up the core and get rid of some of the stale components of this team, trying to get guys who play the game the right way, meaning no biting and hair pulling, diving and whining all of which Burrows has become infamous for.

As for going to New Jersey, there are many beautiful places in New Jersey, in fact a good portion of New York based athletes live in New Jersey. Yes, there are definitely s--t hole towns there too, but last time I checked, Vancouver has those as well and I don't imagine many of the Canucks living in the downtown east side. And it's also a lot closer to his hometown and family in Quebec than what Vancouver is.

I don't mean to bash Burrows, and I get all of the love for a guy who's been here for as long as he has and I do think he's the Canucks most clutch all around big game player, especially with Kelser gone, but since it's unlikely that the Canucks will be seeing the playoffs anytime soon, then I think when you're not wanted, you have to know when it's time to go. I actually remember when Trevor Linden himself was traded and he said that although it was tough getting traded, he didn't want to play for a coach/GM who didn't want him or see him in their plans.......and this was coming from a player who's more beloved than probably any player in the history of the franchise.........and that time has now come for Burrows to accept the same fate. IMO

[Papayas]

RUPERTKBD, sorry but my reply with quote thing still doesn't seem to work. But in response to your reply to my post. We all realize that there's more that goes into a trade than just simply changing uniforms. However, these guys are professional athletes and know what they signed up for. It's a business. And although Burrows has every right to not waive his NMC that the village idiot Gillis gave to him, he has to realize that he isn't wanted on the team.

They are most definitely going in a different direction, trying to get bigger which Burrows isn't, trying to get younger, despite the free agent signings, which Burrows isn't, trying to shake up the core and get rid of some of the stale components of this team, trying to get guys who play the game the right way, meaning no biting and hair pulling, diving and whining all of which Burrows has become infamous for.

As for going to New Jersey, there are many beautiful places in New Jersey, in fact a good portion of New York based athletes live in New Jersey. Yes, there are definitely s--t hole towns there too, but last time I checked, Vancouver has those as well and I don't imagine many of the Canucks living in the downtown east side. And it's also a lot closer to his hometown and family in Quebec than what Vancouver is.

I don't mean to bash Burrows, and I get all of the love for a guy who's been here for as long as he has and I do think he's the Canucks most clutch all around big game player, especially with Kelser gone, but since it's unlikely that the Canucks will be seeing the playoffs anytime soon, then I think when you're not wanted, you have to know when it's time to go. I actually remember when Trevor Linden himself was traded and he said that although it was tough getting traded, he didn't want to play for a coach/GM who didn't want him or see him in their plans.......and this was coming from a player who's more beloved than probably any player in the history of the franchise.........and that time has now come for Burrows to accept the same fate. IMO

so... to sum it up, you are saying that NHL is business when it comes to GM decisions, but the players should ignore the business side and leave when they found out they are not wanted?

You want to talk business? Burrows' contract clearly says he has the right to deny any trade when he signed it. If the management wants to treat the whole situation like business, then Burrows can do the same and remain a canucks until his contract expires.

then it comes to the whole "he's not wanted" argument. Says who? A local troll reporter with little to no source and had been wronged many times before? Or local fans who pick up any rumor around the fridge and want to make it a reality? It was ridiculous in the first place we are having this length of argument without any source in the first place.

the second half of your post is even more ridiculous. It would be Burrows' decision not to go to NJ EVEN if it's true, not yours. Your opinion on how beautiful NJ is means shit.

When Trevor got traded, he did NOT have a NTC. Do you th ink he will actually NOT use that clause if he had one when he got trade? Think about it.

[Papayas]

This

Sooner or later it comes down to contract and asset management.

yes, but it is not a bright move for contract and asset management when the asset has the lowest value.

It all comes down to whether you think a player who always performed in the past, had already peak himself at 33 years old or not.

Some people like yourself or Rupert, who actually has a pretty good reason behind your arguments, is fine.

What a lot of people have problem with is the ones who actually think Burrows is done because of one injury plagued season, and want to dispose him like an used condom.

[VanGnome]

If the rumours are true, and Burrows refuses to waive, though, it's all rather moot. They've used their buyouts, and Burrows has too much value to just waive him.

You are aware I hope, that the two amnesty buyouts afforded by the league to teams was a function of the salary cap reduction after the negotiation of the recent CBA in order to allow teams to easily become cap compliant.

Contract buyouts existed before, except that the cap hit of the buyout actually affects the cap of the team performing the buyout. (Think Alexi Yashin, Marc Chouinard, Dan Cloutier etc).

That being said, let's assume the worst.

The Canucks keep Burrows for this season to allow him the chance to bounce back. He doesn't, and continues to perform at a 25-30 point pace and struggle with injuries.

Now Benning has a quandary on his hands, does he buy him out?

A buyout after this coming season would cost the following cap hits:

2015-16: 2,083,333

2016-17: 2,583,333

2017-18: 1,083,333

2018-19: 1,083,333

We all know AQ's disposition toward buyouts.

Trade Burrows? With that boat of a contract for 2 more seasons and not really having any results, we'd have to pay a cap floor team to take him by offering Burrows, a pick and a low level prospect for Future Considerations. Oh wait, he has a NTC!

Or does Benning hedge his bet and move Burrows NOW, getting some assets of use and avoid the whole scenario? Again worst case scenario is Burrows is traded and goes on to provide 40+ points a season for 3 more years while providing decent 2 way play, while the Canucks rack up more assets that assist with the rebuild to dominance.

To me, the risk of Burrows being traded and continuing to produce is easier to stomach than the risk of Burrows staying and not living up to expectations, further handcuffing this team.

[Drop Em]

Papayas, again my reply with quote thing isn't working, so this will have to do.

Do you honestly think that Linden would have exercised is right to stay here knowing that he wasn't wanted by either the coach or management and from what some people say, a few players too? Give your head a shake because your eyes must be stuck. He's a guy with huge values and common sense and was a captain for a reason. He wouldn't have stayed here knowing that he wasn't wanted or a part of the teams future, NTC or not........SO YOU THINK ABOUT IT!!!

As for not believing the rumors, that wasn't the only source I heard that rumor from and that he was on the block.........and like the saying goes, where's there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the change that this team is in the process of going through. You do the math.

And I'm pretty sure that you can read, a little bit anyways, and I've said on more than one occasion that it's totally Burrows right to not accept a trade, since it's in his contract. BUT, I also can't believe that a professional athlete with even an ounce of self respect would want to play for a team that doesn't want him or see them in their future plans.

And my response about New Jersey was in direct response to RUPERTKBD talking about the livability of a city. I was simply pointing out that not all of New Jersey is a dump and that many athletes CHOOSE to live there. So, speaking of crap, your reply to that part of my post, as well as pretty much the rest of it, was exactly that....... CRAP.........but maybe I gave you too much credit in regards to the reading thing......but then again, reading and comprehending are two different things.

[Papayas]

Papayas, again my reply with quote thing isn't working, so this will have to do.

Do you honestly think that Linden would have exercised is right to stay here knowing that he wasn't wanted by either the coach or management and from what some people say, a few players too? Give your head a shake because your eyes must be stuck. He's a guy with huge values and common sense and was a captain for a reason. He wouldn't have stayed here knowing that he wasn't wanted or a part of the teams future, NTC or not........SO YOU THINK ABOUT IT!!!

As for not believing the rumors, that wasn't the only source I heard that rumor from and that he was on the block.........and like the saying goes, where's there's smoke, there's fire. Not to mention the change that this team is in the process of going through. You do the math.

And I'm pretty sure that you can read, a little bit anyways, and I've said on more than one occasion that it's totally Burrows right to not accept a trade, since it's in his contract. BUT, I also can't believe that a professional athlete with even an ounce of self respect would want to play for a team that doesn't want him or see them in their future plans.

And my response about New Jersey was in direct response to RUPERTKBD talking about the livability of a city. I was simply pointing out that not all of New Jersey is a dump and that many athletes CHOOSE to live there. So, speaking of crap, your reply to that part of my post, as well as pretty much the rest of it, was exactly that....... CRAP.........but maybe I gave you too much credit in regards to the reading thing......but then again, reading and comprehending are two different things.

1. Source please? Seriously, give me one legit source about this incident and I will agree that actually happened. No? then you are one of those who blindly buy into the rumor and go all out saying certain player is not wanted in Vancouver.

2. you seems to be one of those "Linden is the perfect human being" group, so reality probably won't work for you. I wont bother to explain how ridiculous it is that you think a player with a full NTC would not want to exercise it when it comes to moving him to a city that he doesn't want to go.

3. Many athletes choose to live there? If the rumor you are talking about are true, then it was obvious that Burrows does NOT want to live there. So I have no idea what are you trying to do when you say a lot of players want to go there. You think Burrows will magically change his mind if you think NJ is a good place to be?

[apollo]

Maybe he will. In fact, I hope he does, but that won't make our point any less valid. What we're advocating is moving him for someone who will score 25+ goals, five years from now, when the Canucks (hopefully) are once again contenders.

Further to that point, a 25 goal season for Burrows will make me even more keen to move him, since it would (theoretically, at least) increase his trade value.

Dude he'll help us this year. If the canucks are to win a cup in the next 4 years then burrows will be instrumental. He's a Ryan Smyth. Trading him would never help... We already let go kes.

Burr will prove he's a leader. A career season may be coming point wise this year. Burr is gonna shut down ALL the critics.

[Angry Goose]

Burrows is a crafty player. Hope he bounces back hard next year. 27 Goals woop woop

[smokejump]

If HOrvat and Gaune perform strongly in TC i Don't see how Burrows fits

[riffraff]

Dude he'll help us this year. If the canucks are to win a cup in the next 4 years then burrows will be instrumental. He's a Ryan Smyth. Trading him would never help... We already let go kes.

Burr will prove he's a leader. A career season may be coming point wise this year. Burr is gonna shut down ALL the critics.

Ryan Smyth never hoisted one.

He went out playing on a shitty team.

He defined heart but he also defined franchise nostalgia.

[RUPERTKBD]

Dude he'll help us this year. If the canucks are to win a cup in the next 4 years then burrows will be instrumental. He's a Ryan Smyth. Trading him would never help... We already let go kes.

Burr will prove he's a leader. A career season may be coming point wise this year. Burr is gonna shut down ALL the critics.

He'll certainly help this year and like the next couple, but he won't be able to help win a Stanley Cup. Just getting to the playoffs isn't good enough anymore. It just perpetuates the cycle of mediocrity that we've been watching for so long in Vancouver.

I also do not believe that this team has the personnel to win the Cup in 4 years. We may start to contend by that time, but I do not believe that Alex Burrows will be an impact player by the time the young guys are ready.

[Papayas]

He'll certainly help this year and like the next couple, but he won't be able to help win a Stanley Cup. Just getting to the playoffs isn't good enough anymore. It just perpetuates the cycle of mediocrity that we've been watching for so long in Vancouver.

I also do not believe that this team has the personnel to win the Cup in 4 years. We may start to contend by that time, but I do not believe that Alex Burrows will be an impact player by the time the young guys are ready.

by the time our young guy is ready Burrows' contract will be over. I dont see any problem with keeping him in the team.

The only slight downside of keeping Burrows is that he will take up one roster slot from our young guys, but let's face it, the management will never go full out on letting our young players take over like the Edmonton model. The team still need a veteran presence such as Burrows or Bieksa to glue the team together until the younglings are ready.

He's our heart and soul guy. He bleeds green and blue. I seriously dont see any harm of keeping him instead of forcing a trade with a NTC blocking things out.

I can see your point of view tho and it's a reasonable one. but I just think Burrows can still contribute to the team until we are ready to content again.

[apollo]

He'll certainly help this year and like the next couple, but he won't be able to help win a Stanley Cup. Just getting to the playoffs isn't good enough anymore. It just perpetuates the cycle of mediocrity that we've been watching for so long in Vancouver.

I also do not believe that this team has the personnel to win the Cup in 4 years. We may start to contend by that time, but I do not believe that Alex Burrows will be an impact player by the time the young guys are ready.

Mediocrity? I'm sorry I couldn't be more proud of this team. We got back to back presidents trophies. Had one bad half season and then a terrible year under a terrible coach. We aren't far removed from purely dominating the league in the evidently more difficult conference.

This team hasn't been mediocre. I take a lot of pride in back to back presidents trophies and a fixed 2011 final. This team can and will compete.