The joke that's become the Calgary Flames and Edmonton Oilers

[skolozsy2]

I was not aware that Tort's team was ever known for it's hard work.

I totally agree with your 2nd statement.

But on your 3rd, if "Chicago could've easily beat them if they wanted to last night", they would have.

No team wants to be embarrassed on home ice like that.

Calgary definitely need more NHL caliber players; of that, there is no doubt.

That said, McGratten was only dressed for the Flames because Bouma was injured.

Chicago played Carcillo despite having other options for their 4th line..

What other options for the 4th line? Kyle Cumiskey or an injured Kris Versteeg?

How is out-shooting an opponent by the margin the Hawks outshot the Flames considered an embarrassment? Goalie stole the game, nothing to be embarrassed or panic about.

[skolozsy2]

No i'm pretty sure I know.

I also know that it doesn't matter what their fans think since most of them haven't even been aware of the sport before 2010.

Scratch what I said above. It was actually 92 shot attempts by Chi according to a guy on HF. 92. That's quite laughable. And yet that total domination is being sold as Cgy performing a bunch of hard work. lol.

I agree that Hiller is good. He clearly makes a difference and he's already carried them to points they never would've gotten last season. But that's it so far. The rest of the lineup needs shoring up so they can stop playing the game like barn doors.

If you ever want to have a rational and informative discussion on what happened with the Hawks fanbase during thier dark ages, let me know. You may not agree with me, but I will most certainly give you a different perspective.

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

I still think the Florida Panthers are the joke of the NHL

[420since1974]

How many laughs are found on here after a Canucks loss? Fans bickering after a loss is pretty common with just about any team in any sport...its nothing to put too much stock in.

Hawks fans are disappointed with not getting two points against an inferior opponent. Hawks fans arent disappointed with the effort, or the state of the team. Hawks dominated the game from the opening drop til the final buzzer...Hiller stole the game for the Flames. 95 out of 100 times that game has a different outcome. Just one of those nights.

Agreed.

EDIT:

Agreed, except for "Hawks dominated the game from the opening drop til the final buzzer".

[Monteeun]

I still think the Florida Panthers are the joke of the NHL

Oh god, just move the team already lol

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

How many laughs are found on here after a Canucks loss? Fans bickering after a loss is pretty common with just about any team in any sport...its nothing to put too much stock in.

Hawks fans are disappointed with not getting two points against an inferior opponent. Hawks fans arent disappointed with the effort, or the state of the team. Hawks dominated the game from the opening drop til the final buzzer...Hiller stole the game for the Flames. 95 out of 100 times that game has a different outcome. Just one of those nights.

LMAO ! Riiiiight I watched every minute of that game and CHI was given every opportunity to win but the Flames defenders were world beaters that night and CHi was given a joke of a power play with minutes left. When given that many powerplays and they barely take it to over time and loose ? Yeah that is domination form the drop of the buzzer ?

Hilarious !!!!!

[TOMapleLaughs]

If you ever want to have a rational and informative discussion on what happened with the Hawks fanbase during thier dark ages, let me know. You may not agree with me, but I will most certainly give you a different perspective.

Not sure if the perspective is all that different from what fans here have already been through. This team has had darker ages of their own, but also no cups to look back on historically, so if you ever want to join me in a Canuck cryfest...

[420since1974]

If you ever want to have a rational and informative discussion on what happened with the Hawks fanbase during thier dark ages, let me know. You may not agree with me, but I will most certainly give you a different perspective.

I know that you were not referring to me, but I truly would like to know more about "the Hawks fanbase during thier dark ages".

I'm a regional fan, but am interested in more than just Calgary, Edmonton, & Vancouver.

With respect,

[skolozsy2]

LMAO ! Riiiiight I watched every minute of that game and CHI was given every opportunity to win but the Flames defenders were world beaters that night and CHi was given a joke of a power play with minutes left. When given that many powerplays and they barely take it to over time and loose ? Yeah that is domination form the drop of the buzzer ?

Hilarious !!!!!

Outshot them 50-18. Threw up a total of 92 shot attempts. What would constitute a domination in your opinion....150 shot attempts? 200 attempts? Go look at the stats for time of possession in the offensive zone throughout the three periods. Yeah...really close there, huh. I guess the overtime was pretty even, so yeah, you got me....it wasn't domination til the final buzzer, just the 3rd period buzzer.

I agree one of the calls at the end was a joke...but you are gonna take penalties when the other team is constantly on attack. But yeah, the reason Hawks were given an oppurtunity to outshoot the Flames 18-2 in the first was all because one crap call in the 3rd. Gimme a break.

[skolozsy2]

I know that you were not referring to me, but I truly would like to know more about "the Hawks fanbase during thier dark ages".

I'm a regional fan, but am interested in more than just Calgary, Edmonton, & Vancouver.

With respect,

Will pm when i get home and on my computer. Too long winded for a cell phone and i dont want to hijack the thread.

More than happy to explain it...like i said, its a different perspective and hopefully you'll better understand the Hawks fans' displeasure with Bill Wirtz.

[420since1974]

Looking forward to it.

Thank you.

[420since1974]

Outshot them 50-18. Threw up a total of 92 shot attempts. What would constitute a domination in your opinion....150 shot attempts? 200 attempts? Go look at the stats for time of possession in the offensive zone throughout the three periods. Yeah...really close there, huh. I guess the overtime was pretty even, so yeah, you got me....it wasn't domination til the final buzzer, just the 3rd period buzzer.

I agree one of the calls at the end was a joke...but you are gonna take penalties when the other team is constantly on attack. But yeah, the reason Hawks were given an oppurtunity to outshoot the Flames 18-2 in the first was all because one crap call in the 3rd. Gimme a break.

I have no problem stating that the Blackhawks were the dominate team for at least 90% of the game.

The Flames were clearly in survival mode right from the start.

And they took too way many penalties (deserved most of them).

But their hard work denied Chicago many high quality scoring chances by keeping them to the perimeter.

Lots of shots but relatively few dangerous ones.

Hard work killed off the 7 penalties.

I'm not trying to say that Hiller didn't play great, he absolutely did, but he had very few 2nd & 3rd shots to stop as the rest of the team usually cleared them away.

He also didn't have to face a lot of odd man rushes as the Calgary forwards supported their defense-men for the most part.

The Flames won't win many games against top level opponents, but when they do, it will be by a combination of hard work and solid goal-tending.

[Canucks1219]

So 'bout them Oilers, eh? 5.50 GAA through 4 games, eh?

[420since1974]

I'm really starting to feel sorry for some of the Edmonton fans.

Kevin Lowe joined the Oilers staff in 1998 as an assistant coach. In 1999, he took over head coaching duties from Ron Low. He was head coach for just a single season, getting the Oilers to the first round of the playoffs. He was promoted to general manager of the Oilers in 2000 when long-time GM Glen Sather left for the New York Rangers. He remained the Oilers' Executive Vice President and General Manager until the 2008–09 season when he was promoted to President of Hockey Operations.

The Oilers have missed the play-offs 10 times during the same time frame.

They've changed their coaches and players many times over those 16 years; sooner or later someone has to figure out where the problems originate.

[Industrious1]

The fans in Edmonton certainly aren't ignoring the Lowe factor.

Go check out their forums, it ain't what I would call a love-fest for the old boys club.

[skolozsy2]

I have no problem stating that the Blackhawks were the dominate team for at least 90% of the game.

The Flames were clearly in survival mode right from the start.

And they took too way many penalties (deserved most of them).

But their hard work denied Chicago many high quality scoring chances by keeping them to the perimeter.

Lots of shots but relatively few dangerous ones.

Hard work killed off the 7 penalties.

I'm not trying to say that Hiller didn't play great, he absolutely did, but he had very few 2nd & 3rd shots to stop as the rest of the team usually cleared them away.

He also didn't have to face a lot of odd man rushes as the Calgary forwards supported their defense-men for the most part.

The Flames won't win many games against top level opponents, but when they do, it will be by a combination of hard work and solid goal-tending.

I agree the Flames worked hard and did well at clogging up shooting lanes and tying up men in front. There were only a few odd man rushes...but honestly, the puck was in the Flames end alot.

There really werent that many opportunities for odd-man rushes. Two shots in the first period...i mean seriously though, how many times did the Hawks really have to break the puck out in the first, or even second period for that matter.

Like you said, Flames were pretty desperate from the start, but did well at keeping really good scoring chances to a minimum.

But based on differential in shots, shot attempts, and time of possession in the offensive zone...the Hawks were pretty dominant for most of that game and i really think they win that game 9 out of 10 times. Just one of those games...

[Off_The_Schneid!]

How come people aren't making a bigger deal about Draisatle making the oilers ? He just makes the team cuz he's the number 3 pick? From what I've seen he hasn't shown anything and has been brutal defensively. This team is unreal! Pushing all these kids into key roles. How long does it take to make a couple trades and get some veteran leadership. This team is becoming a joke

[D-Money]

Current state of the Flames:

...but still better than Edmonton!

[LuckyLuciano]

Kelly Hrudey touting Flames pairing of Giordano and Brodie as one of the best in the league. They actually do seem to be putting up some good numbers. How do you think they rank amongst the other top pairing in the league?

[420since1974]

This in an opinion from the SB Nation site:

http://www.matchsticksandgasoline.com/2014/9/29/6602665/calgary-flames-season-preview-2014-questions

"You could make a case that last season, Brodie and Giordano formed the league's top defence pairing. Not just Calgary's - the entire league's. Out of every single defenceman, including those on powerhouses like the Kings and Blackhawks, Brodie and Giordano were among, if not the, best.

The corsi% rel statistic - a percentage of a team's shot attempts directed towards the opponent's net vs. their own with the player on ice, relative to his own team (so players on bad teams, like the Flames, don't get hurt) shows Giordano and Brodie were #1 and #2, respectively, out of all regular NHL defencemen. This was all while playing some of the toughest minutes in the league. Out of all regular NHL defenders, Brodie had the worst zone starts, and Giordano wasn't too far behind him on the list. They certainly played the most difficult minutes on the Flames, not only starting some of the least amount of times in the offensive zone, but facing off against the opposition's toughest players as well.

Here's the thing, though: that was last year. Before then, Giordano was pretty good, but nobody saw this season coming. With Jay Bouwmeester gone, he became the de facto number one defenceman, and anointed with the captaincy, Giordano had a year for the ages.

The problem? He's getting older. NHL dmen tend to have their best years in their late 20s or early 30s. Giordano will be 31 this season, so he may yet have a few years of optimal performance left in him. Is he going to be as big a factor when the Flames make their way out of the basement? Probably not, but for next season, he shouldn't regress too much, if at all. There are no real changes for him: he's still the #1 dman, and he's still the captain. If anything, he should have more confidence now, after knowing how close he was to making Team Canada, and if he ever heard some of the faint buzzing saying he should win the Norris Trophy.

He's also keeping the same defence partner who, in and of himself, is incredibly good.

This is Brodie's 24-year-old season. There are two probable directions for his career: either he's already reached his peak, and plays at that level for several years to come (again, not a bad thing: he's tested extremely well in possession statistics for defencemen, all while playing difficult minutes), or he gets even better.

Since he became an NHL regular, Brodie's worst CF% was at 49.8%. His worst fenwick score? 50%. The Flames fare much better when Brodie is on the ice, period. He drives possession, and he's been doing it since he stepped into a full time NHL role at the age of 21.

His ice time has steadily increased. In his first season, he was averaging 16:29 on the ice. Second season, 20:13. Third season, he officially made the top pairing, and was playing roughly 24:04 a game. His zone starts plummeted this season as well - from 52.5% in the offensive zone to 47.6% to 42.2% - and he only got better.

And that isn't even counting the pairing's offensive prowess.

Giordano set career highs in goals (14) and points (47) over the last season, and he did it over just 64 games. (His previous career highs were set when he played all 82 games of the season.) Pro-rating for an 82 game season, he would have had 18 goals (fourth out of all defencemen) and 60 points (third). He didn't even need a substantial increase in ice time to do it, averaging about two additional extra minutes a game compared to last year. His powerplay ice time, however, rose substantially: from 2:10 a game in the 2013 season to 3:26.

But again, that's where Brodie comes in. While there's a chance Brodie may have already peaked possession-wise (though every indication is he's only going to get better), he's certainly going to get better offensively.

Brodie himself had a career season, scoring four goals and 31 points, about double his past performances. It's incredibly early yet, but he's been compared to most recent Norris Trophy winner Duncan Keith, and they're already following a similar point trajectory. And not only has his ice time gone up (read: more chances to score), but he's going to get more chances than before.

Last season, Brodie averaged 1:46 on the powerplay, fourth out of all Flames defencemen. That should increase this year, because not only has he proved himself as one of the club's top defencemen, but his coach is championing him, hard. Brodie has established himself as a top pairing defender, but there's tons of room for his offensive game to grow. He has the talent, and this season, he should be getting the opportunities.

All in all? There are three clear paths for Giordano: he builds on his past season, getting even better; he stays about the same, which was one of the best in the league; or he declines, in part due to age, in part due to the possibility of the past season being a fluke. But if Giordano has as good a season this year as he did last year, the Flames will be able to rely on him.

And if he declines? Then there's Brodie, who's probably only going to get better - and he's already really, really good. The two were a formidable pair before, and have all the potential to repeat their performance, with the added benefit of their coach entering the season already knowing exactly how good his top two defencemen are."