Do you think Nick Bonino is a 2nd line Center?

[ice orca]

@TML Kes had 16 of his 48 pts in the 2nd half, 3 goals 0 assists after the WPG game when the Canucks were in a bad hole. He was injured in Wpg and that could of hindered him but he played not to get injured after that.

[aGENT]

I think anyone expecting him to be a (sometimes) dominant force like Kesler are setting themselves up for disappointment.

He's a competent, positionally sound centre with good hands and above average passing/vision with merely average speed.

On one hand he won't have the occasional "beast mode" dominance, speed or elite faceoffs and two way play but on the other hand he has superior vision and should be actually better able to utilize his line mates and create plays.

Kesler is the better player, Bonino might just make it a better line. In a team sport I actually think I'll lean towards the latter.

[TOMapleLaughs]

I think anyone expecting him to be a (sometimes) dominant force like Kesler are setting themselves up for disappointment.

He's a competent, positionally sound centre with good hands and above average passing/vision with merely average speed.

On one hand he won't have the occasional "beast mode" dominance, speed or elite faceoffs and two way play but on the other hand he has superior vision and should be actually better able to utilize his line mates and create plays.

Kesler is the better player, Bonino might just make it a better line. In a team sport I actually think I'll lean towards the latter.

Kesler's long gone, so whatever, but better players, better lines, right? I think that's how it works. But I never bought into the Kesler has no vision argument. When he had decent linemates, Kesler's playmaking was just fine. Hell, 3rd line-calibre Chris Higgins just had a pretty good season beside him. As well as Santo before he went down.

After watching the Kesler 2013-14 goals video above, man, I am soooo not looking forward to watching him as a Duck. Gonna sting a wee bit. Oh well. Now we can relate to what Edmonton went through when Pronger went there. Yay Canada Unity!

Long-term though, doesn't matter, as the team is in a rebuilding phase, so it is what it is. Let's hope we rebuild it right this time.

[oldnews]

It appears that Bonino was indeed touchable. Who said otherwise?

I don't mind advanced stats at all, actually. But the way they're sometimes misused to build false arguments is annoying. Fine. I don't think fine-tooth combing things like linemate shooting percentages reveals much of anything. It translates to nothing other than 'we will see how he does here'. Well, duh.

The narrative of Kesler forcing Benning's hand is part of the 'Kesler is a selfish prick' narrative. So I have to apologize again if it seems obvious to me that the return was fairly poor. Of course it was. Why would Anaheim hand us a good one if Benning's hands were tied?

Anyway, again, it's not like Bonino is all that bad. But you don't need deep statistical analysis to figure that out. He's fine. And considering he's fully matured and going to a rebuilding team, that'll be it. Just... Fine.

TOML referring to "false arguments" screams irony after all your tinfoil hat posts on these boards.

Who said that Bonino was untouchable? Read the many Kesler trade threads. A whole lot of people felt that key prospects, key roster players (Bonino being one of them, and particularly popular with Ducks fans), and Anaheim's 10th overall were non-starters. You were active in those threads and no doubt saw Bonino referred to in proposals and rebuttals - your claim that he wasn't on anyones radar remains nonsense. "Well duh."

I'm not one of those people who expected more, or consider this return disappointing. Kesler was selfish - and over-rated. The return is good market value as far as I'm concerned.

The shooting percentages of Bonino's linemates that SID refers to are simply objective outcomes - you can get annoyed all you want and call it as micro-combing - the differences that he points out in Palmieri and Beleskey's shooting percentages with and without Bonino was more than fair game in response to a poster that asked if he makes his linemates better. The very clear difference with Bonino would suggest that he either puts the puck on their stick in higher quality scoring chances than they were getting otherwise, or they are consistently far luckier when playing with Bonino. Imagine someone referring to actual outcomes in a thread that asks if he's a second line center? I personally prefer that over loopy conspiracy theory/ideology.

[aGENT]

Kesler's long gone, so whatever, but better players, better lines, right? I think that's how it works. But I never bought into the Kesler has no vision argument. When he had decent linemates, Kesler's playmaking was just fine. Hell, 3rd line-calibre Chris Higgins just had a pretty good season beside him. As well as Santo before he went down.

After watching the Kesler 2013-14 goals video above, man, I am soooo not looking forward to watching him as a Duck. Gonna sting a wee bit. Oh well. Now we can relate to what Edmonton went through when Pronger went there. Yay Canada Unity!

Long-term though, doesn't matter, as the team is in a rebuilding phase, so it is what it is. Let's hope we rebuild it right this time.

I agree Kesler arguably gets too much flack for his lack of vision (particularly when he had decent linemates and we had Mlaholtra to free Kesler up on the offensive side) but Bonino is a better playmaker. I don't think you can argue that.

And no, I'll take a lesser player that creates a more unified line with better chemistry (assuming that can happen) than one good player that while very skilled, doesn't mesh as well with his line/team.

Teams win games, not players. Here's hoping that's what we get.

[TOMapleLaughs]

TOML referring to "false arguments" screams irony after all your tinfoil hat posts on these boards.

Who said that Bonino was untouchable? Read the many Kesler trade threads. A whole lot of people felt that key prospects, key roster players (Bonino being one of them, and particularly popular with Ducks fans), and Anaheim's 10th overall were non-starters. You were active in those threads and no doubt saw Bonino referred to in proposals and rebuttals - your claim that he wasn't on anyones radar remains nonsense. "Well duh."

I'm not one of those people who expected more, or consider this return disappointing. Kesler was selfish - and over-rated. The return is good market value as far as I'm concerned.

The shooting percentages of Bonino's linemates that SID refers to are simply objective outcomes - you can get annoyed all you want and call it as micro-combing - the differences that he points out in Palmieri and Beleskey's shooting percentages with and without Bonino was more than fair game in response to a poster that asked if he makes his linemates better. The very clear difference with Bonino would suggest that he either puts the puck on their stick in higher quality scoring chances than they were getting otherwise, or they are consistently far luckier when playing with Bonino. Imagine someone referring to actual outcomes in a thread that asks if he's a second line center? I personally prefer that over loopy conspiracy theory/ideology.

Irrelevant.

Bonino was never deemed untouchable by anyone important by the sounds of it. The fact that he was traded for an obvious upgrade kinda sealed that up.

I disagree that Kesler was overrated. He was a very important player for us, if not the most important. What makes more sense is that some fans here have sour grapes over how he left. Far more logical.

The problem with the fine-tooth combing is that the sample sizes are small and the context is ignored. What was their deployment? What was the qualcomp? Hell, what kind of goals were scored? Or even better, did Bonino directly contribute to the goal? Ban's list showed a helluva lot of 2nd assists there. I mean gimme a break with the ridiculous number-crunching already. Esp. when there's no discernible conclusion. I'd rather just take Benning's generalizations on how he can pass the puck or whatever and go with that.

Moving along, I'm hopeful that McCann pans out. He's the best return on the trade as he may fit in the eventually rebuilt Canucks. He adds another skilled two-way center to the fold. It's not all doom and gloom and conspiracies when the future could be very bright after all.

[oldnews]

I think anyone expecting him to be a (sometimes) dominant force like Kesler are setting themselves up for disappointment.

He's a competent, positionally sound centre with good hands and above average passing/vision with merely average speed.

On one hand he won't have the occasional "beast mode" dominance, speed or elite faceoffs and two way play but on the other hand he has superior vision and should be actually better able to utilize his line mates and create plays.

Kesler is the better player, Bonino might just make it a better line. In a team sport I actually think I'll lean towards the latter.

I don't think the Canucks need that 'dominant' force to the extent that they did in the past.

When they lost Malhotra and were forced to roll with guys like Ebbett in the bottom six (not an Ebbett hater, I thought he's better than most people perceived but didn't have that bottom six shutdown ability) the Canucks got pretty shallow down the middle. Lapierre put on 20lbs trying to be more physical and lost a step and a considerable amount of his effectiveness. Kesler carrying a great deal of (two way) weight became essential - and he was consistently injured to add to the problems. The bulk of their prospects weren't ready, and the one knocking on the door was injured repeatedly (Schroeder).

The present Canucks however have a very solid depth C in Richardson, a young guy approaching his prime in Matthias, and a number of prospects who are approaching the point where they could push for roster spots - Lain, Horvat, Gaunce - the lack of depth at C is not what it was.

Bonino, imo, does not have to come in and play 20+ minutes, doesn't have to play a 2 and 3C role simultaneously - as Kesler did - and might just have better linemates to play with than Kesler did. Adding Vrbata means there will be a 26 goal scorer (over the past 5 seasons - whether that's Vrbata or Burrows) on the wing on the second line, and most likely a more developed Kassian on the other wing. I see no reason that Bonino can't remain in the 40 to 50 point range with those linemates, and that is certainly all we could ask of Kesler. If Bonino were to regress to 35 or 40 points (at 1.9 million), he's still a quality roster piece. So some of the shutdown responsiblity falls on the improved depth - not a crisis really. And that depth just grew by another 1st round pick at C. I'm extremely pleased by the changes.

Perhaps the problem here is people expecting an equal 2C asset in return, as well as another former 1st round prospect, and a 1st round pick. Ironically, that might be what Benning got back in that deal - for a personality that needed to go - and yet....

[oldnews]

It's not like Bonino was even on anyone's, let lone advanced stats nerds' radars until we got him.

Simply - bull feces. It's really easy TOML - go to the Kesler trade threads and search "Bonino". You'll find him on people's radar before the deal, before it was even narrowed down to a few teams and primarily Anaheim. Sorry if it doesn't mesh with your dung googles storyline.

Now you're backtracking to "anyone important" - I'll leave it to Your Importance to determine who is important around here.

Irrelevant.

Again, when your posts gain some relevence, I'll take your protests about irrelevence more seriously.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Simply - bull feces. It's really easy TOML - go to the Kesler trade threads and search "Bonino". You'll find him on people's radar before the deal, before it was even narrowed down to a few teams and primarily Anaheim. Sorry if it doesn't mesh with your dung googles storyline.

Again, when your posts gain some relevence, I'll take your protests about irrelevence more seriously.

Sigh... Does it even matter, old? The trade happened, so I guess opinions on him being untouchable were wrong.

Hey if you're looking for more rosy opinions, I suppose you missed the part where I said that the future, post-rebuild could indeed look pretty rosy, as long as they do it right.

edit: I've done a search as you've suggested. Now I can understand why you're so upset about this. Sorry. Please note that it's not like I purposely called you out or anything.

[aGENT]

I don't think the Canucks need that 'dominant' force to the extent that they did in the past.

When they lost Malhotra and were forced to roll with guys like Ebbett in the bottom six (not an Ebbett hater, I thought he's better than most people perceived but didn't have that bottom six shutdown ability) the Canucks got pretty shallow down the middle. Lapierre put on 20lbs trying to be more physical and lost a step and a considerable amount of his effectiveness. Kesler carrying a great deal of (two way) weight became essential - and he was consistently injured to add to the problems. The bulk of their prospects weren't ready, and the one knocking on the door was injured repeatedly (Schroeder).

The present Canucks however have a very solid depth C in Richardson, a young guy approaching his prime in Matthias, and a number of prospects who are approaching the point where they could push for roster spots - Lain, Horvat, Gaunce - the lack of depth at C is not what it was.

Bonino, imo, does not have to come in and play 20+ minutes, doesn't have to play a 2 and 3C role simultaneously - as Kesler did - and might just have better linemates to play with than Kesler did. Adding Vrbata means there will be a 26 goal scorer (over the past 5 seasons - whether that's Vrbata or Burrows) on the wing on the second line, and most likely a more developed Kassian on the other wing. I see no reason that Bonino can't remain in the 40 to 50 point range with those linemates, and that is certainly all we could ask of Kesler. If Bonino were to regress to 35 or 40 points (at 1.9 million), he's still a quality roster piece. So some of the shutdown responsiblity falls on the improved depth - not a crisis really. And that depth just grew by another 1st round pick at C. I'm extremely pleased by the changes.

Perhaps the problem here is people expecting an equal 2C asset in return, as well as another former 1st round prospect, and a 1st round pick. Ironically, that might be what Benning got back in that deal - for a personality that needed to go - and yet....

Agreed.

[oldnews]

Sigh... Does it even matter, old? The trade happened, so I guess opinions on him being untouchable were wrong.

Hey if you're looking for more rosy opinions, I suppose you missed the part where I said that the future, post-rebuild could indeed look pretty rosy, as long as they do it right.

Meh.

What's wrong was claiming he was on no one's radar.

That he was untouchable was just some people's opinion.

[Rumour] - Kesler was almost traded to Ducks!

Posted by L. Stanley on 19 May 2014 - 06:37 PM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

well there was a previous rumour, that the ducks were willing to offer a combination of stem or rakell plus any of their 4 picks, it was never clear how many of those assets were in play, for example, if 3 of those assets were in play then it would have been rediculous not to make the trade

ex: Etem, 10th, 27th for Kesler is more than fair.

2 of those assets is a bit of a low ball

Gillis wanted Nic Bonino and obviously Ana does not want to take away from their roster going into the playoffs

- stupid gillis and his asset management.

my biggest fear for this franchise is that they still think they are a competitive team - the players and ownership are drinking serious kool-aid

I hope trevor does not join the drinking, but I think he has. I think he is going to keep kesler and try to sign a top 6 forward that is not a true legit top 6 forward.

Posted by canucks155 on 19 May 2014 - 08:30 PM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

I went over to the Ducks forum to see what they want for Kesler and this is what I found. Earlier in the season, they were willing to give A LOT more for him than they are right now. In March, they were willing to do this:

To Ana: Kesler

To Van: Etem/DSM/Bonino, Theodore/Vatanen and their 1st

Now they want to do:

To Ana: Kesler

To Van: Pearrault(RFA)/Palmeri, Rakell and Ottawa's 1st.

I attribute this drop-off in value to Bonino having more points than Kesler. I say we hold off in trading Kesler until the Ducks start to struggle again, mainly Bonino. Then again, if we don't trade him at the draft, they could always go after Vanek/Molsoun/Gaborik, which is what a lot of the Duck fans want. We should have pulled the trigger earlier on because I think the best offer we could have had is now off the table- at least from the Ducks. BUT, they did lose to the Kings so maybe his value raise a bit? Idk. It's hard to get a read on what Kesler is worth right now.

Posted by DefCon1 on 20 May 2014 - 03:31 AM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

L. Stanley, on 19 May 2014 - 6:29 PM, said:

If Kesler is going to Anaheim, am looking at Bonino or Silverfberg and Etem coming back.

Posted by canucks155 on 20 May 2014 - 04:49 PM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

playboi19, on 19 May 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

Kesler is a 2-way selke forward. Bonino having more points than him this season shouldn't matter at all.

Matters to Ducks fans- which is all that really matters for Bob Murray.

#12157655 [Rumour] - Kesler was almost traded to Ducks!

Posted by DefCon1 on 20 May 2014 - 03:46 AM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

Allen, as in Brian Allen? The worse defenseman in the LA series who is currently being bashed by Ducks fans?

All I see here is an unknown in a weak draft, Etem and a slow and sloppy number 6 D-man. That isn't how you build a cup contending team, not even a playoff team. IF Kesler is traded, Bonino has to be part of the deal. If the team wants to contend soon, we would have to make unreal trades or win deals by a landslide.

I don't really care about 'rosy opinions'.

I find the kind of stuff that SID posts to be more interesting than rosy or crap stained goggles - even if small samples - more interesting than unsubstantiated (and generally slanted) opinion.

[xereau]

Ridiculous depth at this position.. 2b/3a center, is going to make for a most interesting camp and preseason.

Perhaps the Canucks are going to run a 1a 3a 3a 3b style system this year, and not grind the Sedins into the ground by xmas... heh

[TOMapleLaughs]

To each their own. I found the weighted number-crunching to be useless. Ban's breakdown of goals and assists types seemed more interesting. Real-life happenings instead of spreadsheets.

[DeNiro]

Posted by canucks155 on 19 May 2014 - 08:30 PM in Trades, Rumours, Signings

I went over to the Ducks forum to see what they want for Kesler and this is what I found. Earlier in the season, they were willing to give A LOT more for him than they are right now. In March, they were willing to do this:

To Ana: Kesler

To Van: Etem/DSM/Bonino, Theodore/Vatanen and their 1st

Now they want to do:

To Ana: Kesler

To Van: Pearrault(RFA)/Palmeri, Rakell and Ottawa's 1st.

I attribute this drop-off in value to Bonino having more points than Kesler. I say we hold off in trading Kesler until the Ducks start to struggle again, mainly Bonino. Then again, if we don't trade him at the draft, they could always go after Vanek/Molsoun/Gaborik, which is what a lot of the Duck fans want. We should have pulled the trigger earlier on because I think the best offer we could have had is now off the table- at least from the Ducks. BUT, they did lose to the Kings so maybe his value raise a bit? Idk. It's hard to get a read on what Kesler is worth right now.

What Ducks fans were willing to give up has no bearing on what Kesler was worth.

It's the same as when Canucks fans think they can get Nyquist and Tatar for Edler. It's not realistic. Fans don't have any real idea of player values, only GMs do because they're the ones making the calls.

[oldnews]

What Ducks fans were willing to give up has no bearing on what Kesler was worth.

It's the same as when Canucks fans think they can get Nyquist and Tatar for Edler. It's not realistic. Fans don't have any real idea of player values, only GMs do because they're the ones making the calls.

You've missed the bulk of the discussion evidently.

The claim was that Bonino was on no ones radar, not fans, stats geeks or anyone. Simply not the case. This thread is about Bonino - agree that what Ducks fans were willing to give up is irrelevent, but that point is itself irrelevent here.

[Sneezy]

Bonino was solid, but not untouchable last season in Anaheim. They wanted Kesler because Koivu declined rapidly last season. With Koivu's decline and Perreault and Cogliano being fairly weak up the middle, Bonino was the best option available to them beyond Getzlaf. But now that they have Kesler, they have a far more legit way to take the heat off of Getzlaf. It's interesting that they chose to give up Bonino who was a proven vet, over some of their prospects, but that's probably because a lot of their prospects have way more upside. I have a feeling that Bonino just had a career year.

Since Bonino is a purely offensive, power play kinda guy, I decided to give him an eyeball test on just how all those points came about:

Assist 1: Down 6-0, Ducks score late one with seconds left.

Goal 1: Perry does all the work, Bonino pot in rebound on wide-open net.

Goal 2: Faceoff play. Nice shot.

Goal 3: Floater from the blue line. GTG.

Goal 4: Maroon does all the work. Bonino pots easy one.

Assist 1: Blueline turnover by Gorges. 2-on-1. Bonino to Maroon for easy one.

Assist 3: Power play, pass to Selanne, Etem scores on rebound.

Assist 4: Blueline turnover, 2-on-1. Bonino to Palmieri, who's the first star.

Assist 5: 5 on 3 power play 2nd assist, Getzlaf with the finish.

Assist 6: Faceoff assist to Fowler.

Goal 5: Perry comes in passes to Etem who drives net, Canucks caught flat-footed, Bonino scores wide open. GWG.

Assist 7: Perimeter pass to Lindholm with the blast.

Goal 6: 5 on 3 rebound

Assist 8: Power play 2nd assist. Neat-looking drop pass through the legs.

Assist 9: Power play 2nd assist. Blueline dish off.

Goal 7: Cogliano skates in the zone, catches late-coming Bonino who pots in his own rebound.

Assist 10: Power play 2nd assist.

Assist 11: Late on shift, passes to point.

Assist 12: Faceoff assist.

Assist 13: Power play 2nd assist. (starting to see a pattern here)

Assist 14: 2nd assist to Getzlaf-Perry combo.

Goal 8: Comes in late on a grinding shift by Maroon and Jackman, pots easy one.

Assist 15: Power play, Fowler blast, rebound, Bonino's shot goes in off Perry.

Goal 9: Right place, right time as Maroon and Palmieri do nifty boardwork. Wide open.

Goal 10: Right place, right time again as Winnik and Selanne make the play and Bonino has a tap-in.

Goal 11: Power play. In front of net with Perry. Getzlaf shot and rebound potted in by Bonino as he falls.

Assist 16: Broken play by SJ's defense, Bonino passes over to Beleskey for scramble goal.

Assist 17: Nice pass to Jackman as Edmonton's defense gives one up against Anaheim's 4th line.

Goal 12: Exhausted Canucks fail to clear zone, Winnik to Bonino for GTG. Nice shot.

Assist 18: 2nd assist on 4-on-3 OT power play

Assist 19: 2nd assist on power play.

Goal 13: Great work by Getzlaf to find wide-open Bonino floating in the slot on the power play. Nice shot.

Assist 20: Bonino comes in late, gets pass from Palmieri, takes shot, rebound buried by Lindholm.

Goal 14: Canucks look lost on PK, Bonino nice shot past Eriksson.

Goal 15: Getzlaf nice dish against Canucks again during the 9-2 blowout. Bonino buries easy one. He's 1st star.

Assist 21: Interception, blueline dish to Beleskey who scores weak one.

Assist 22: 2nd assist on power play.

Goal 16: Silfverberg drives net, Bonino comes in late and pops in easy rebound.

Assist 23: 2nd assist on power play. Really?

Assist 24: Stadium series. Selanne to unpressured Bonino behind net. Nifty flip pass to Beleskey.

Assist 25: 4th line goal as Bonino finds Sbisa and his shot is deflected in. Yes, the dreaded Bonino-Sbisa combination.

Goal 17: Fowler flies up into offensive territory and finds Bonino ready for a shot from the boards and it's a nice one.

Assist 26: Winnik nice skating and shot after getting neutral zone feed from Bonino.

Assist 27: 2nd assist on nice Palmieri goal. Palmieri first star.

Goal 18: Best goal so far. Comes up middle of neutral zone, catches 3 Flames looking and wrists it by Ramo. He likes that spot on the top-left circle.

Goal 19: Bonino gets feed from Getzlaf and pots in easy one waiting in the slot against tanking Oilers.

Goal 20: Cycles behind net uncontested by Winnipeg after collecting own rebound and pops in nifty-looking backhand.

Goal 21: NICE-looking goal from on his knees as Kings lose scramble in front of own net.

Goal 22: Pots in wide-open net goal as he watches Vatanen and DSP create OT play for GWG.

Playoffs:

Assist 1: Nice perimeter pass from boards to streaking Palimieri as Dallas misses coverage.

Goal 1: Best-looking power play goal so far. Steps into middle of ice before ripping it past the goalie.

Goal 2: Bonino ties game coming from behind net as Dallas' goalie gives him entire top shelf and no defenders to be found.

Goal 3: Bonino, right place, right time, waiting in slot, fires OT series winner!

Assist 2: Broken play in neutral zone leads to 2-on-1. Bonino finds Selanne for easy one.

Goal 4: Muzzin falls, Winnik to Bonino, snaps a 4th line goal from slot.

Assist 3: Palmieri does all the work after Bonino passes off to him. Great power wrap-around.

Assist 4: 2nd assist on another Palmieri goal. Ducks eliminated. His... Season... Is... Over...

Overall he looked a bit slow. Not sure if he's just a poor skater or just likes watching plays develop, but he's standing around a lot, waiting to get opportunistic feeds or is coming in late on plays. Not every game was like this, but it was a pretty consistent pattern on most of the plays seen here.

On the power play he was CLEARLY a benefactor for most of the season. Imagine being Getzlaf and Perry's 'other' guy. Easy, easy, easy. Just pass it off and wait by wide-open nets and you'll look great, kid.

5-on-5 he didn't seem to drive plays a lot, or be this dynamic offensive force, but he was capable of dishing off the puck when pressured, and he was capable of converting on plays when not pressured a lot.

His clutch performance against the Dallas elimination game was the season highlight, followed by his 2-goal performance against us in that 9-2 blow out, (at least from our perspective).

After watching all this I'm not quite sold on him as a top-6 center. He's a bit slow, he seems to depend on his wingers a lot, and clearly benefitted from 2nd assists to star players on the power play down there. Up here with some lesser players it's going to be tougher for him to repeat last seasons' performance.

I think I've verified my thoughts on the player. I thought he would be stretched here in a top-6 role as he played more sheltered minutes than any other Ducks center last season. As a kinda slow and inconsistent 6th rounder, he doesn't have much untapped offensive upside remaining, doesn't offer much in terms of physicality, and may find himself struggling offensively here without Getzlaf and Perry by his side. I think he has a LONG way to go before proving himself as a top-6 center.

He can win faceoffs though. This is pretty important for us, as we don't have many players who can.

Meanwhile, the Ducks will do just fine as their 'becoming ready' prospects look pretty darn good. And they added Kesler.

That's some crazy @$$ recap of Bonino's offensive output. Thanks for putting this together.

[DeNiro]

You've missed the bulk of the discussion evidently.

The claim was that Bonino was on no ones radar, not fans, stats geeks or anyone. Simply not the case. This thread is about Bonino - agree that what Ducks fans were willing to give up is irrelevent, but that point is itself irrelevent here.

It isn't irrelevant because it shows fans unrealistic expectations of what Kesler was worth.

If those were some people's expectations, then it's no wonder why they would be disappointed with Bonino, who is a solid player in his own right.

[oldnews]

It isn't irrelevant because it shows fans unrealistic expectations of what Kesler was worth.

If those were some people's expectations, then it's no wonder why they would be disappointed with Bonino, who is a solid player in his own right.

I see what you're trying to say - I agree DeNiro - thinking that Bonino isn't enough - as a roster piece in a three piece deal that includes former and current 1st round picks - is pretty unrealistic. I don't know what people were expecting, but I'm thrilled with Bonino. I didn't expect a 2C and a pair of quality prospects/1sts. I consider him a guy who has earned a 2C role - people can call him a tweener, 3C or whatever - it doesn't matter much. Pleasantly surprised personally.

[Diakonos]

Ugh, I love oldnews. These past two pages are a freaking joy to read.

Ugh.

[aGENT]

Ugh, I love oldnews. These past two pages are a freaking joy to read.

Ugh.

I actually thought it was nice to come in to CT today and find some actual, intelligent conversation. It's been the intelligent conversation equivalent of prairie tumbleweed in here recently.

YMMV