Do you think Nick Bonino is a 2nd line Center?

[MattJVD]

I honestly think Vey will beat him out for the 2C job by season's end and Bonino would be flipped at the 2015 draft. No real evidence to support his, I just think Vey is primed for a breakout and has a higher ceiling.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Don't get me wrong TO, I'm not trying to pretend our centres are even close to being on LA's level. The comparison I was trying to make was simply that LA scores by committee, different players stepping up every night. A total team effort. That's the kind of team I would want to emulate.

Me too. But for now I don't think it's happening. Too many players simply cannot score with any kind of consistency, and last season that even included the Sedins, so Desjardins is going to work the lineups in order to generate offense period rather than dividing up his available offense to spread it around. But maybe some players will step up and the Sedins will rebound. If the Sedins are able to rebound to 2009-11 form, then our offensive woes are instantly solved and Vrbata will have a career year. We'll probably see what we actually have by January.

[GreyHatnDart]

Me too. But for now I don't think it's happening. Too many players simply cannot score with any kind of consistency, and last season that even included the Sedins, so Desjardins is going to work the lineups in order to generate offense period rather than dividing up his available offense to spread it around. But maybe some players will step up and the Sedins will rebound. If the Sedins are able to rebound to 2009-11 form, then our offensive woes are instantly solved and Vrbata will have a career year. We'll probably see what we actually have by January.

Solid assessment, I'm in the same boat. Being on the fringe of a playoff spot must be a tough, as it gets to the point of being a buyer or a seller come trade deadline. I think Benning's plan is a rebuild, but he's not quite allowed to go full in because of ownership. If it comes down to that, I hope he pulls the trigger on moving some vets for some picks or high potential.

[ComfyMatter]

Borderline 2nd line center. He could develop into one some day. If Vey, Horvat or Gaunce can step up and fill in that 3rd line role, that would make everyone's job easier.

Maybe one of Horvat, Vey, and Gaunce will eventually steal Bonino's spot on the second line. I think for now he plays on the second line but in the future since he's already 26 years old, I think he will comfort our third line. Then our top tier centers (Horvat, McCann, Gaunce) will eventually find there spot on the roster as they become better players. And hope that they become what they are projected to be

[Tangelos]

I honestly think Vey will beat him out for the 2C job by season's end and Bonino would be flipped at the 2015 draft. No real evidence to support his, I just think Vey is primed for a breakout and has a higher ceiling.

No point trading Bonino. That contract is amongst the best in the league

[xereau]

In the very few games I have seen Bonino play, I was jealous. A speedy banger with hands.

[Angry Goose]

I honestly think Vey will beat him out for the 2C job by season's end and Bonino would be flipped at the 2015 draft. No real evidence to support his, I just think Vey is primed for a breakout and has a higher ceiling.

I would love for both of these guys to battle for top 6 spots, with one on the wing and one at C. Matthais really should be the Canucks 3rd line C.

[oldnews]

The average NHL 2nd line center scored 49 points over a 3 year sample, precisely what Bonino scored last year.

Bonino did that playing 16:22 of ice time.

His primary linemates being Palmieri and Beleskey. He played with a lot of guys, but more 5 on 5 minutes with Palmieri (31 points) and Beleskey (24 points) than anyone.

So, if people want to dwell on his powerplay production as if that context is heavily weighted by Perry and Getlaf, they should look at the rest of the context - the reality being that he scored 29 even strength points alone playing with guys who had good third line production.

The other reality here, regarding his powerplay minutes - Bonino had the best underlying numbers of anyone on the Ducks on the powerplay - a relative corsi of +18.1, better than either Perry or Getzlaf (or anyone else on that roster). So the question is, who made whom better? It's not obvious that Bonino himself wasn't an equal partner in that production - he is precisely the type of player - great vision, a good shot and excellent sense of where to be and go on the ice - that makes linemates better, whether or not they are Perry and Getzlaf, Palmieri and Beleskey, or whoever.

The Canucks just got a hell of a player and in addition, his caphit of 1.9 over the next three years is that of a modest third line cap hit at most. Steal. Those extra milions come in damn handy when you're adding a goaltender like Miller over that term.

I'm not concerned at all - first, I've watched the guy play, and he is a bloody nuissance to play against - and second, he'll have linemates like Burrows, Kassian, perhaps Higgins, Jensen, Hansen.... I think he's going to pick up right where he left off, and folks here are going to be thrilled to see this guy in a Canucks uniform. He's just plain crafty.

[William_Clarkson]

The average NHL 2nd line center scored 49 points over a 3 year sample, precisely what Bonino scored last year.

Bonino did that playing 16:22 of ice time.

His primary linemates being Palmieri and Beleskey. He played with a lot of guys, but more 5 on 5 minutes with Palmieri (31 points) and Beleskey (24 points) than anyone.

So, if people want to dwell on his powerplay production as if that context is heavily weighted by Perry and Getlaf, they should look at the rest of the context - the reality being that he scored 29 even strength points alone playing with guys who had good third line production.

The other reality here, regarding his powerplay minutes - Bonino had the best underlying numbers of anyone on the Ducks on the powerplay - a relative corsi of +18.1, better than either Perry or Getzlaf (or anyone else on that roster). So the question is, who made whom better? It's not obvious that Bonino himself wasn't an equal partner in that production - he is precisely the type of player - great vision, a good shot and excellent sense of where to be and go on the ice - that makes linemates better, whether or not they are Perry and Getzlaf, Palmieri and Beleskey, or whoever.

He had 27 even strength points (14/13) and Palmieri also had 27 (13/14), Beleskey trailed off in even strength points with 18 (8/10). So, even strength Bonino and Palmieri produced pretty much the same. On the surface those are pretty good numbers even better when you consider lack of ice time. However, then you consider both were really sheltered in their minutes. In fact, he was more sheltered than Richardson, Booth, Kassian, and Matthias, who all faced harder competition and more defensive zone starts. Bonino's 5 on 5 corsi% was 49.8%, despite starting 50.5% of his shifts in the offensive zone. So he's not the greatest possession player either.

Are you sure he makes his linemates better?

His two most frequent linemates, Beleskey and Palmieri, had better possession without Bonino than with him.

[kloubek]

It's impossible to really assess him yet. As pointed out in the article, he played with some really top-end players with the Ducks which likely inflated his production.

With that said, his best year was by far last year, which shows a potential serious uptrend in his performance.

So now he will be one year older - one year more experienced and presumably one year bigger and stronger. On the other hand, he will be playing with wingers who aren't the same caliber as he had in Anaheim.

If he gels well, continues to improve and is coached properly, I do see him as a 2nd line center. However, there's also the opportunity for a lot to go wrong.

[oldnews]

He had 27 even strength points (14/13) and Palmieri also had 27 (13/14), Beleskey trailed off in even strength points with 18 (8/10). So, even strength Bonino and Palmieri produced pretty much the same. On the surface those are pretty good numbers even better when you consider lack of ice time. However, then you consider both were really sheltered in their minutes. In fact, he was more sheltered than Richardson, Booth, Kassian, and Matthias, who all faced harder competition and more defensive zone starts. Bonino's 5 on 5 corsi% was 49.8%, despite starting 50.5% of his shifts in the offensive zone. So he's not the greatest possession player either.

I think you've confused Bonino's assist totals with his pp points.

He had 13 powerplay assists, and 14 even strength. He had 7 pp goals, and 15 even strength.

20 powerplay points, 29 even strength - no shorthanded goals - it's possible his totals have been miscalculated (it's commonly stated that he had 20/29 for 49) if he had some shorthanded assists?

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/players/542226/nick-bonino/#Points%20Per%20Game$Trades=1&GameType=279588574&SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1990

Agree that Palmieri also had impressive 5 on 5 production for the amount of minutes he played - and the point there for the most part is that there's nothing of concern there with Bonino's 5 on 5 production - it was neither padded by high scoring linemates, nor was it lacking for the minutes he played. His (and Palmieri's) minutes indicate very good production when kept in context.

As for the chart you post, first off, the entire Ducks team was not a great possession team, four guys on that chart ironically have better corsi with Bonino than without numbers, but regardless, the chart is lacking context - what it doesn't indicate is the situational usage of those lines, nor does it indicate if those 'corsi' figures are relative or corsi-on - there's really not enough relative information there to tell you anything.

A corsi on of 49.59, with 50.5% ozone shifts is virtually negligible, particularly if you factor in 51.9% offensive zone finishes.

People use the concept "sheltered" incorrectly imo all the time on these boards (I've heard the Sedins refered to a "sheltered" due to ozone starts, which is nonsense - they face shutdown pairings and lines all the time, and their coaches have never bothered to avoid them). There is nothing 'sheltered' about playing second, third, fourth line minutes simply because the quality of competition isn't as high as top line or top six forwards. Sheltering means low quality of competition, high percentage of offensive zone starts, and typically linemates that can 'protect' a (usually young) player from their (usually defensive) shortcomings. An example of sheltering is Nick Leddy. NIck Bonino was not "sheltered" simply because his 5 on 5 quality of competition. Richardson was sure as hell not "sheltered" (he had 32.8% ozone starts), nor was Kassian (43.5), Booth (45) or Matthias (43.6) Using a single indicator like qoc is very oversimplified, as are corsi figures without context.

[Tearloch7]

For some reason, I can see a line of Bonino - Vrbata - Kassian playing shifts as a line .. now THAT could be a terrific second line .. were Burr to rebound full time, we could see Vrbata play with the Twins on the 1st PP mostly, and elsewhere 5x5 .. that could lead to a very balanced, hard to play against team. rolling 4 solid lines .. so many variables to 'celebrate', and all with 'optimiism'. We may need to move a veteran forward or two ..

[Sir Lord Baltimore]

We're basically running a 1st, a really, really good third, a very good third and a good third line this year. In that context I think he'll do fine.

A mediocre first if it's going to be Sedin/Sedin/Burrows.

[oldnews]

For some reason, I can see a line of Bonino - Vrbata - Kassian playing shifts as a line .. now THAT could be a terrific second line .. were Burr to rebound full time, we could see Vrbata play with the Twins on the 1st PP mostly, and elsewhere 5x5 .. that could lead to a very balanced, hard to play against team. rolling 4 solid lines .. so many variables to 'celebrate', and all with 'optimiism'. We may need to move a veteran forward or two ..

I agree that the second line could be more threatening than it has been in some time - and also think the concerns around Bonino being a 2C are a bit overplayed,

They have some capable depth in Richardson and Matthias who can handle more than typical third and fourth line minutes, meaning Bonino will not necessarily have to manage Kesler type minutes.

They have a few prospects likely to push for spots - Lain, Gaunce and Horvat.

They also have some cap space left - if they still wanted to add an inexpensive faceoff/shutdown veteran for the fourth line after assessing the preseason for example, there are a number of decent depth centers still on the market.

I'm thrilled with Bonino though - we can hammer the numbers around and they are pretty good, and nothing to be concerned about, but watching the guy is another thing, and it's not hard to see why astute eyes like Desjardins and Benning really like the player - and at 1.9 million for three years he's an absolute no brainer.

[Mr.53]

Is he? No, can he be, for sure definitely. The next 2 years are critical for Bonino and he knows it. He's currently on an upward trend, so it's natural to think the trend can continue, but we will see. He needs line-mates that complement him well, and you can see some great results. It's more about chemistry than about if they are a second or third line calibre player.

[oldnews]

2.35 pp60 for Bonino last year.

That puts him 84th in the NHL, while there are 90 top line forwards in the NHL at any given time....

So we could just as easily also ask if his production indicates a top line tweener if we wanted to push it the other way, which is just as reasonable as suggesting he's a 3C at this point, something maintained quite frequently around here.

Then again, it was also frequently debated whethere Kesler was a worthy 2C or not....

49 points in 16:22 of ice time earns a player a 2C role imo.

[Junkyard Dog]

Lots of good discussion going on here. Always good to see.

[Junkyard Dog]

If Burrows can bounce back and Kassian break out then I don't see a problem with Bonino putting up another 40-50 points if those two are his linemates.

[aGENT]

A mediocre first if it's going to be Sedin/Sedin/Burrows.

This is how I picture you:

[TOMapleLaughs]

Maybe the question is more 'Will the team do well with Bonino as a 2nd line center?' With clarification on what 2nd line center actually means.

I expect Bonino to anchor our 2nd power play rather than to benefit from Sedin power play time, due to him simply being a lefty.

I also expect him to be paired with Vrbata to give WD more scoring line options. This pairing will be fair, but not overwhelming.

He can PK, but not consistently.

And he can win some faceoffs. imho It's that ability alone that will get him a better shot at our '2nd line' role more than anyone else on the team at the moment.

I think he scores 40-50 points, but the teams' performance depends on the Sedins' ability to rebound to 2009-2011 form.

What's disturbing about last season is that our even-strength scoring was led by Chris Higgins, as he out-scored the Sedins and Vrbata in that category. But last season was a disaster. For us to not repeat that disaster, WD will have to start giving the Sedins cozy icetime again, which means we'll need some centers to take on the grunt work. Is that Bonino? Not sure.