Burrows on Torts

[Salmonberries]

Torts was nuts, lol. Great comic relief, I guess.

[nuck luck]

Interesting article I read on Selanne and Boudreau....the last quote from Selanne is perfect and it just reminded me of the relationship between the Canucks and Torts.

"If anyone other than Bruce Boudreau was coaching the Anaheim Ducks, Teemu Selanne believes he would be reporting for training camp with his former teammates on Thursday morning and continuing his NHL career.

That is among a number of frank revelations contained in an authorized biography entitled “Teemu,” which has just been released in Finland. The book was written by journalist Ari Mennander with Selanne’s support and has been in the works for a decade. Sections translated into English were obtained by Sportsnet for this article and later cross-checked by two people who have read it.

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While the biography covers a range of topics including his personal life and parents’ divorce, it is a chapter detailing the late stages of his NHL career where he delves into significant detail about his differences with Boudreau.

Selanne felt that he never gained the coach’s trust and wasn’t given enough ice time to make an impact. Ultimately, he claims that it prompted him to begrudgingly walk away from the game just before his 44th birthday.

“If we had any other coach, I’d still play,” said Selanne.

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It was pretty clear that the future Hockey Hall of Famer was fed up before the Ducks were eliminated in the second round of last year’s playoffs. The team topped the Western Conference with 116 points in the regular season but was knocked out by Los Angeles in a seven-game series.

Anaheim trailed the Kings 3-0 at the first intermission of the deciding game. Selanne knew that it would likely be the last of his NHL career and took out his phone between periods to text his wife and a couple friends: “f—ing joke.”

In his mind, Boudreau deserved most of the blame for that team’s failure to win a championship.

“It would have been wrong if we had won the Stanley Cup with a coach like that,” said Selanne.

After the loss, he went out for dinner with family and friends and spoke about Boudreau for four hours, according to the biography.

The book also reveals that Selanne considered contract offers from the Winnipeg Jets and Los Angeles Kings during the summer of 2013 because he wasn’t keen on another season under the Ducks coach. Ultimately, the two men sat down for a meeting where Selanne claims he was promised power-play time and around 15 minutes of ice time per night.

He ended up falling a little short of that mark with an average of 14:07.

“Everything started well, but then my ice time got smaller, just like the previous year,” said Selanne. “Anything Boudreau had said wasn’t true.”

Last season he became so distressed about not being included on the top power play unit that he urged a teammate to lobby the coach on his behalf. After an excellent showing at the Sochi Olympics, where he led Finland to bronze, Selanne was briefly elevated in the lineup only to see his minutes fall again.

The biography chronicles some of the specific discussions he had with Boudreau.

In one meeting just before the Olympics, Selanne said he left confused after being instructed to “give harder passes.” Following a Game 7 loss to Detroit in the 2013 playoffs, he claims that the coach apologized for giving him just 12:55 of ice time and told him that he had planned to use him more on the power play in the next round.

“That was an unbelievable explanation,” said Selanne.

What separates this book from so many others is the source of the information. Selanne is 11th in NHL history with 684 career goals and spent parts of 15 seasons playing for the Ducks. He won a Stanley Cup in Anaheim. The organization has plans to retire his No. 8 before a game against the Jets on Jan. 11 — an event owners Henry and Susan Samueli said will “pay tribute to a world-class player, ambassador and champion.”

While it wasn’t exactly an industry secret that Selanne craved a bigger role last season — he said as much on more than one occasion in Sochi — no one would have predicted this much candour from his book project. The biography is currently only available in Finnish, but there have been discussions about having it published in English.

Boudreau appeared on “Prime Time Sports” with Bob McCown after receiving a two-year contract extension last week and discussed his relationship with Selanne and Saku Koivu. He is the fastest NHL coach ever to win 300 games and acknowledged that having two legendary players at the end of their careers complicated his job.

“It was tough sometimes because they were both getting a little older and I was really conscientious of how much ice time I gave them,” Boudreau said. “I mean they’re both icons in the league and you don’t want to embarrass them by not playing them enough.”

(Attempts to reach Boudreau for this article were unsuccessful).

Despite the coach’s best efforts, Selanne was far from satisfied.

The tension came to a head between Games 3 and 4 of a first-round series with Dallas last spring when Selanne got word that he would be scratched the next night. It prompted a confrontation.

“I waited after everyone else had left the ice and skated to Boudreau,” he said. “I yelled at him right to his face with what I was thinking. I asked what he has against me. I told him that since he became our coach, he has not respected me one bit. You never put me on ice when we play 5-on-3 or 4-on-4 or when we are one goal behind in the end of the game. Be honest for one time and answer.

“He just stammered that decisions were not his alone and it was a group decision. I asked which group and he said GM and scouts. I yelled at him ‘Whoa, what kind of a coach are you if you don’t even decide the lineup?’ He tried to skate away but I just yelled that I wasn’t finished.

“I told Boudreau if you ever want to win something in a playoffs, you’re going to need me. Nobody else wants to win as much as me.”

As heated as the moment was, getting those feelings off his chest came with relief for Selanne.

“It felt really good,” he said.

While the biography notes that he didn’t have any issues with Boudreau as a person — “He is actually a nice man” — it’s clear that their working relationship was pretty strained. In summing up his final NHL season, one where Selanne scored just nine times in 64 games, the winger said: “You are as good as your coach wants you to be.”

The two men haven’t spoken since the argument in Dallas, according to the book."

Chris Johnston, Sportsnet.ca

[Absent Canuck]

Torts was not the right coach for this group but I believe he was brought in to try to squeeze blood from a stone and win a championship for Aquilinni.

He tried and it worked for a while then failed miserably.

Its sad that we tend to use players and coaches as punching bags when they leave. The vitriol is useless.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

And if he gets injured again this season?

Sure it's an excuse but suddenly he's an injury prone player

To be fair the last 2 seasons he has been injury prone a third would throw him into that category. I love the guy but players age, injuries happen team cultures change etc etc.

[C.S.Strowbridge]

Really? Games-played?

It's zero goals, 3 assists, -7 in 17 games played, if we need to know.

I don't think Torts has anything to say or do but continue putting him out there until he figures it out again.

So a player is struggling and you don't think the coach should at least talk to him about it? Really?

That's nuts.

First of all, the coach should talk to every player before the season begins. He certainly should find out why a player is struggling.

[Papayas]

Torts was not the right coach for this group but I believe he was brought in to try to squeeze blood from a stone and win a championship for Aquilinni.

He tried and it worked for a while then failed miserably.

Its sad that we tend to use players and coaches as punching bags when they leave. The vitriol is useless.

the dude didn't even live in vancouver during his time as our coach, nor did he arrange practice, communicate with players or being able to stay out of the other team's locker room.

This is more than just the team trying to "squeeze blood from a stone".. That guy has some serious issue as a coach last season and I doubt he will get hire again from another NHL team

[insomniac604]

Yea what Burr said was pretty eye opening.

Coming in last year you saw Torts portrayed as a hard working guy that won't hesitate to communicate with his players. Turns out most of that communication was on the bench instead of behind closed doors.

I understand there is sometimes a go-to (like a Captain). But Burr is undeniably one of our leaders. No reason Torts couldn't approach him.

If someone had told MG that he was getting a guy who preaches fitness but hates practice, who yells at the bench but is silent in the back, doesn't watch tape of opposing teams and simply refuses to roll 4 lines even when our top guys are cracking under the minutes.. well he probably knew all that anyway and still hired him.

lack of sense cost him his job. and it cost the Canucks Schneider, Luongo and Kesler. Now our current situation may cost us Burr, too.

[Santo]

Torts will never get another NHL gig, nor should he.

Ridiculous.

[nuck luck]

Torts was not the right coach for this group but I believe he was brought in to try to squeeze blood from a stone and win a championship for Aquilinni.

He tried and it worked for a while then failed miserably.

Its sad that we tend to use players and coaches as punching bags when they leave. The vitriol is useless.

Every coach is brought in to win a championship...what's your point?

I have no problems with people "trying" to achieve goals or objectives....if they give a valiant effort than I can praise their attempts.

Having said that, if they give little or no effort, if they go about their objective in a completely futile manner, than I have absolutely no sympathy and just "shake my head" at them....everyone wants to be this or that, but some people are just not good enough while others are. Fact of life.

This isn't high school...this is a profession, if you are not qualified or good enough then move out and find something more suitable. If you are not smart enough to use your assets in the proper manner than why would anyone have sympathy? Plain and simple....some people are not smart enough, some are not qualified or others are out-dated, either or, I might feel sorry for them and I wish no harm to come to them, but I will not try and praise them or give them credit for ruining my business or a business that I respect and cherish. Honestly, I can't think of one good thing that Torts brought to this franchise...

They sympathy you want to dole out, like ice cream to children, is completely pathetic and useless in this profession.

Yes, some ex-coaches and players don't deserve it....but in this case, it is well deserved.

[mancaesar]

Coaching is a lot like teaching. A lot of teaching/coaching involves group management and paying attention to the students' performances. For example, if one of my students is scoring poorly on recent tests, I will make a point of talking with the student to find out why. Some teachers might let it slide, but I wouldn't. In my personal experience as both a student and a teacher, this is far more effective in generating positive results than simply ignoring the problem or hoping it works itself out. Or blaming the student.

[Ihatetomatoes]

People quickly forget how Coach AV never ever talked with his players. All communication went through his assistant coaches. He led us to the cup finals and just did the same with New York. Pretty decent coach.

Not trying to say Torts is a good coach but not talking to players doesn't mean your a bad coach.

[Bure to Mogilny]

People quickly forget how Coach AV never ever talked with his players. All communication went through his assistant coaches. He led us to the cup finals and just did the same with New York. Pretty decent coach.

Not trying to say Torts is a good coach but not talking to players doesn't mean your a bad coach.

So now torts is a good guy even tho he never talked to the ahl utica coach? Really people come on

[aqua59]

...reports just keep leaking out...what a mess. Makes you wonder how he even had success in the past with his other teams? Did he just give up on us or something? So Torts joins the Canucks on a team bonding retreat to BC but didn't say anything to anyone past the Sedins' and Kesler?

Makes me feel that much more optimistic about the upcoming season with Willie who personally flew out to all the veterans homes this Summer just to chat and start a relationship.

"Merry Christmas coach!"

"You too, Alvin."

In the end this is another guy taking the money and running. Hiring him so quickly after he was fired was mistake number one on Gillis' part.

Torts had nothing in the tank other than his stale act.

No one has to say anything about Torts and how he did things. The exposure through simple acts by the new regime expose just what a sham last years coaching was. It was a shameful coaching job. A shameful managerial job leading to a flop of a year. With little or no practice.

The new group is as committed to the players. The management group isn't asking of the players any more than they are of themselves. They are proving it by going through training camp right along side of their players.

[Vansicle]

Just recovered from 2 injuries = Torts hey lets throw him in the top 6 with protective wear around his face which does not let him see properly. -7 I wonder how the rest of the team played after Christmas?

Just reread. I am the one who hit my head.

[vcrguy]

So lets rewind a year. MG hires Torts. And who wouldn't accept a 1 year 5M per gig. Trace back to these boards who said MG is a great GM and Torts is a good coach...................now we bash both of them. We bash AV, we bash Hodgson, its really quite sad. When you're on our team or part of our team, you're the best, and when you leave your a piece of ##@%@. What does that say about our credibility as fans? Linden, Benning, the Sedins, Edler are great now, but in two years if they're gone, we'll likely do a 180 on all of that.

[oldnews]

So lets rewind a year. MG hires Torts. And who wouldn't accept a 1 year 5M per gig. Trace back to these boards who said MG is a great GM and Torts is a good coach...................now we bash both of them. We bash AV, we bash Hodgson, its really quite sad. When you're on our team or part of our team, you're the best, and when you leave your a piece of ##@%@. What does that say about our credibility as fans? Linden, Benning, the Sedins, Edler are great now, but in two years if they're gone, we'll likely do a 180 on all of that.

well, you've either nailed it - everyone here is of like mind, and you're the wise exception....

or you've stated a classic logical fail / gross oversimplification vcrguy

is there such thing as "these boards", a single voice that speaks for "we"? - or are there are a whole lot of people with different opinions on issues, players, coaches, managers.....some agreeing with Torts but not MG, or MG but not Torts, or both, or neither, some critiquing or defending Hodgson. others that have already done a 180 while others would and will never turn on the Sedins?

I think it's a miss vcrguy. I think you nailed the logical fail.

[BanTSN]

So lets rewind a year. MG hires Torts. And who wouldn't accept a 1 year 5M per gig. Trace back to these boards who said MG is a great GM and Torts is a good coach...................now we bash both of them. We bash AV, we bash Hodgson, its really quite sad. When you're on our team or part of our team, you're the best, and when you leave your a piece of ##@%@. What does that say about our credibility as fans? Linden, Benning, the Sedins, Edler are great now, but in two years if they're gone, we'll likely do a 180 on all of that.

Credibility as fans? Lol. The people who are doing the bashing are by definition fans because they are fanatical.

The people who just took off when times got bad though? They're the ones who lack credibility as fans.

But if it's about pointing fingers, yes, we're all kinda guilty of flip-flopping on guys. Likely you too.

[Double Vs]

As I've stated in other threads, I think we have a great management group who are here for the long haul. With Gillis and Torts, and to a certain extent AV when he was here, it did not seem like they had a precise plan, and knew everything inside out which you need to succeed in any industry.

I bet Linden was paying attention to the train wreck last season, and was already formulating a plan in the back of his mind if the opportunity arose. I bet Benning was also formulating a plan for when he took over a team what would he do. And I'm sure Willie was the same. It didn't seem that way with the past regime, and it showed. Yes, the 2011 cup run, but in the end, the Canucks came up short, and didn't have enough to put them over the top.

I think we're in for a good ride with TL, JB, and Willie. We finally have decent management in place. I've been a fan since 1982, and was never 100 percent comfortable with management after Quinn left, and dipped after Burke was fired.

As for the player movements, it happens, and I won't bash any player. The only transaction that had me do the facepalm was Luongo, as he provided the Canucks with great service, but was shipped out over a stupid situation. Again, that's management.

[nuck luck]

So lets rewind a year. MG hires Torts. And who wouldn't accept a 1 year 5M per gig. Trace back to these boards who said MG is a great GM and Torts is a good coach...................now we bash both of them. We bash AV, we bash Hodgson, its really quite sad. When you're on our team or part of our team, you're the best, and when you leave your a piece of ##@%@. What does that say about our credibility as fans? Linden, Benning, the Sedins, Edler are great now, but in two years if they're gone, we'll likely do a 180 on all of that.

Let's slow the rewind down....from my readings and deductions, I believe it was the owners, NOT MG, who wanted to hire Torts.

We bash people who don't perform and praise the ones who do, it's the nature of being a sports fan...what else would you expect? Some are right and others wrong....and the discussions about it on CDC is what makes it interesting. The reason it's interesting is because it is CANUCKS related.

edit: I may have bashed those that I thought were a bad fit for the team, but I also bashed them during their employment here.

What I don't like about your post is that you loop everyone in the same group...trace back to all my posts and I pretty much stand straight with my thoughts. I've also read a lot of other posts from CDC members and they don't stray from their original thoughts too...so, you need to reword your post or just accept the fact that a majority does not equal the whole.

I also want to point out that information does arise after the fact which will alter peoples thoughts....as in this case.

well, you've either nailed it - everyone here is of like mind, and you're the wise exception....

or you've stated a classic logical fail / gross oversimplification vcrguy

is there such thing as "these boards", a single voice that speaks for "we"? - or are there are a whole lot of people with different opinions on issues, players, coaches, managers.....some agreeing with Torts but not MG, or MG but not Torts, or both, or neither, some critiquing or defending Hodgson. others that have already done a 180 while others would and will never turn on the Sedins?

I think it's a miss vcrguy. I think you nailed the logical fail.

Agreed

As I've stated in other threads, I think we have a great management group who are here for the long haul. With Gillis and Torts, and to a certain extent AV when he was here, it did not seem like they had a precise plan, and knew everything inside out which you need to succeed in any industry.

I bet Linden was paying attention to the train wreck last season, and was already formulating a plan in the back of his mind if the opportunity arose. I bet Benning was also formulating a plan for when he took over a team what would he do. And I'm sure Willie was the same. It didn't seem that way with the past regime, and it showed. Yes, the 2011 cup run, but in the end, the Canucks came up short, and didn't have enough to put them over the top.

I think we're in for a good ride with TL, JB, and Willie. We finally have decent management in place. I've been a fan since 1982, and was never 100 percent comfortable with management after Quinn left, and dipped after Burke was fired.

As for the player movements, it happens, and I won't bash any player. The only transaction that had me do the facepalm was Luongo, as he provided the Canucks with great service, but was shipped out over a stupid situation. Again, that's management.

I hate it when people come on here and say MG didn't have a plan.... how do you think he took this team from the basement to the SCF?? No plan....give your head a shake!

2nd quote: This shows me that you don't think things through and just go with what you've heard or read...like the above statement about "no plan". I'll say this AGAIN, it was COACHING not management that forced the Lou trade.

MG does not have a say, nor does any other GM, over who plays in what games...that decision is made solely by the coach.

Keeping AV on past his "best before" date was Gillis' mistake #1.

This is one of MG moves that most irritated me....I agree it was mistake #1. I can't help but think that if he had brought in another coach who could adapt and wasn't so stubborn, we would have beaten Chicago earlier and had more attempts at the Finals and another coach would've gotten us past Boston.

[Grapefruits]

People can hate on Torts all they want, but he forced the Luongo issue which lead to him being traded and Gillis being fired. All in the span of 1 year. Didn't accomplish much on the ice, but off the ice I'd say he worked miracles, LOL!