Gross-Misconduct Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Fighting needs to stay. And when someone eventually dies as the result of a fight, so be it. It's fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbox Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hey at least the hockey players fight people their own age and not little kids, Mike.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I guess you might as well leave and go watch UFC then if you're into "violent sports". When has hockey, especially played professionally, not been a violent sport? If you don't like violent sports, you're watching the wrong league, and should be watching football (soccer) or baseball.. turning it off when they brawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Because Hockey isn't Football or soccer.. why should they be treated the same??? That argument makes zero sense. Its not the same sport, it doesn't have the same rules you might as well ask why do hockey players get to use sticks. Cheap shots exist because of the instigator rule.. more attempts to manage fighting has and will continue to make the game less safe. People do not get injured from fights, serious injuries and concussions from fights are extremely rare, cheapshots not so much. The Flames missed the playoffs one year because Iggy broke a finger in his hand when he was punching and missed over 4 weeks. Yes, it's not the same sport - but it's not a "fighting" sport. It's a team sport played on ice. Anyone who thinks that you can't get a concussion from fighting had probably been concussed and not thinking clearly. LOL - Ice Hockey is played with sticks so fighting should be allowed! and you think my argument makes no sense?!?!?! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 If a frustrated player doesn't fight then their mind is going to dull and get clouded. Not only will their efficiency drop but they might also start head hunting. Concussions are more likely to result from dirty hits then a fight. If I had kids I'd tell them that if your angry then you need to find a proper method of venting out that anger because holding it in only makes things worse. On the ice, fighting is pretty much the only way to do that. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I'm saying that he shouldn't have fought. What I said was that he'd have some 'spaining to do. Little girls are very good at calling their dads out for saying one thing and doing another. I say that from a wealth of experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 When has hockey, especially played professionally, not been a violent sport? If you don't like violent sports, you're watching the wrong league, and should be watching football (soccer) or baseball.. turning it off when they brawl. Hockey is a "contact" sport. Always has been. Always will (we hope). It has never been classified as a "violent" sport like UFC. The goal of the game is to score more goals than the other team - you don't get any points for fighting. Other than getting some of the crowd "excited", fighting servers no purpose to the actual game. It doesn't stop cheap shots. BTW - I never said I didn't watch it - I just said I thought the penalty was not severe enough. Punching someone in the head is a head shot - no different than an elbow or a high stick. I don't give a crap about the lame "consensual" argument. Any, and I mean any contact to the head is a head shot. If fighting was so necessary, then they would have coaching manuals for it and be taught at a young age. All it really is, is 2 men who can't control their emotions and act like a couple of bullies in a play ground. You like fighting so much? Go watch UFC or boxing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Goons are going away and its for the better. As for the spontaneous fights, I have no real objection. I am completely indifferent about those. Its a way to blow off steam I guess. However, I dont understand how it would matter if those went too. Fights barely even happen anymore, and when they do they take up about half a minute during a 2 hour game. If I really want to see that kind of thing I'll watch MMA or whatever. Last year's playoffs featured a average of one fight for every ten games. Im not sure how anyone can claim it is an indispensable part of the game, since a fact like that really blows the idea that the players themselves believe a fight is a true morale booster and game changer out of the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Hockey is a "contact" sport. Always has been. Always will (we hope). It has never been classified as a "violent" sport like UFC. The goal of the game is to score more goals than the other team - you don't get any points for fighting. Other than getting some of the crowd "excited", fighting servers no purpose to the actual game. It doesn't stop cheap shots. BTW - I never said I didn't watch it - I just said I thought the penalty was not severe enough. Punching someone in the head is a head shot - no different than an elbow or a high stick. I don't give a crap about the lame "consensual" argument. Any, and I mean any contact to the head is a head shot. If fighting was so necessary, then they would have coaching manuals for it and be taught at a young age. All it really is, is 2 men who can't control their emotions and act like a couple of bullies in a play ground. You like fighting so much? Go watch UFC or boxing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_sport#Full-contact Ice hockey is in the same realm of "contact" sport as "mixed martial arts". Lacrosse is too, and, funny, fighting happens to be there as well. So much for poo-pooing me off to the "UFC". I'd recommend another sport if fighting in hockey bugs you so much. Same as Milbury the Unstable Guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Let's ask ourself a better question. Is it possible to eliminate fighting? I don't think it is. If the league installed a fighting ban with a penalty of permanent ban from the league, there would still be fights! Maybe fewer, but I'd expect a dramatic increase in cheap shots instead. Fighting has just been an excuse for officials to not step up their game by claiming they are letting the players sort it out. As long as we allow the freak show in hockey will always be a niche sport. Sure it can be fun to watch a dust up but too often it's kinda ridiculous like Nuge going after Hamhuis or Kesler going after Kronwal after legal hits. Cheap shots are not detered from fighting like when has Keith ever had to own up? He got to run from Kassian and was pretty much celebrated for it. Too often it's just a staged fight after a cheap shot between each team's goons and that solves nothing. On the other end there was the mentality that because the Sabres didn;t have a guy tough enough it was okay for Lucic to run Miller. Backwards stone-age thinking. Yes it sucks to lose the good fights but should these guys brains be turned to pudding for our entertainment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2SKATES1STICK Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_sport#Full-contact Ice hockey is in the same realm of "contact" sport as "mixed martial arts". Lacrosse is too, and, funny, fighting happens to be there as well. So much for poo-pooing me off to the "UFC". I'd recommend another sport if fighting in hockey bugs you so much. Same as Milbury the Unstable Guy. you said poo poo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contact_sport#Full-contact Ice hockey is in the same realm of "contact" sport as "mixed martial arts". Lacrosse is too, and, funny, fighting happens to be there as well. So much for poo-pooing me off to the "UFC". I'd recommend another sport if fighting in hockey bugs you so much. Same as Milbury the Unstable Guy. Football is a contact sport as well - thanks for proving my point that hockey is as well. Again, you get no points for fighting - unlike UFC. Oh, you're the one that said you would stop watching hockey if fighting becomes less and less - not me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Goons are going away and its for the better. As for the spontaneous fights, I have no real objection. I am completely indifferent about those. Its a way to blow off steam I guess. However, I dont understand how it would matter if those went too. Fights barely even happen anymore, and when they do they take up about half a minute during a 2 hour game. If I really want to see that kind of thing I'll watch MMA or whatever. Last year's playoffs featured a average of one fight for every ten games. Im not sure how anyone can claim it is an indispensable part of the game, since a fact like that really blows the idea that the players themselves believe a fight is a true morale booster and game changer out of the water. Exactly - and which part of the hockey season is the most exciting to watch - Regular or Playoffs? Obviously the playoffs - which, like you said, rarely has a fight anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I say time has come to get Mike Milbury off of TV. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandmaster Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Ryan Kesler saying the league should eliminate diving would be less ironic. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Football is a contact sport as well - thanks for proving my point that hockey is as well. Again, you get no points for fighting - unlike UFC. Oh, you're the one that said you would stop watching hockey if fighting becomes less and less - not me. But you're the one who said you were waiting for Milbury to ask you out before committing to another relationship. See? I can do that too. This making up stuff and attributing it to others is great. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_ice_hockey Violence has been a part of ice hockey since at least the early 1900s. According to the book Hockey: A People's History, in 1904 alone, four players were killed during hockey games from the frequent brawls and violent stickwork. More modern examples of violence include brawls, fan involvement, physical abuse of officials, and deliberately injuring opponents. Violent actions such as kicking, hitting from behind, and prohibited stickwork, are penalized with suspensions or fines. Fighting, or fisticuffs, is also penalized but is considered by many hockey enthusiasts, particularly in North America, to be quite distinct from stick-swinging or other violent acts. They regard fighting as an entrenched, acceptable and important part of the game. On the ice, referees may impose penalties for prohibited activities. Off the ice, the National Hockey League (NHL) sometimes fines, suspends, or expels players. The criminal justice system has also been known to investigate, charge, and convict players. As a result, hockey has become much more regulated and the violent element much more controlled. This has been aided, in no small part, by dramatic increases in disciplinary processes and technology which allows a high level of scrutiny of any event which occurs. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_in_ice_hockey Fighting in ice hockey is an established tradition of the sport in North America, with a long history involving many levels of amateur and professional play and including some notable individual fights. Although often a target of criticism, it is a considerable draw for the sport, and some fans attend games primarily to see fights. Fighting is usually performed by one or more enforcers, or "goons"—players whose role it is to fight and intimidate—on a given team and is governed by a complex system of unwritten rules that players, coaches, officials, and the media refer to as "the code". Physical play in hockey, consisting of allowed techniques such as checking and prohibited techniques such as elbowing, high-sticking, and cross-checking, is inextricably linked to fighting. Those who defend fighting in hockey say that it helps deter other types of rough play, allows teams to protect their star players, and creates a sense of solidarity among teammates. The debate over allowing fighting in ice hockey games is ongoing. Despite its potentially negative consequences, such as heavier enforcers (or "heavyweights") knocking each other out, some administrators are not considering eliminating fighting from the game, as some players consider it essential. It's cool to watch hockey fans pretend hockey isn't violent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 But you're the one who said you were waiting for Milbury to ask you out before committing to another relationship. See? I can do that too. This making up stuff and attributing it to others is great. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_in_ice_hockey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_in_ice_hockey It's cool to watch hockey fans pretend hockey isn't violent. I never said it wasn't "violent" - I said it's not a "violent fighting" sport. What stuff did I make up? You said: We all know the roots of fighting the NFL has. As for hitting in that league: - Can't hit the Quarterback a second or two after he throws it - Can't hit the Quarterback in an upwards tackling motion (dip and rip) - Can't hit the Quarterback when he slides feet first - Can't hit a Quarterback during a fumble/interception - Wrap up, but don't use "wrestling" wrap-up moves or throw the Quarterback to the ground - Can't hit above the shoulders - Can't hit the knees, or for Quarterbacks, below the waist - Can't lead with the head - Can't hit a receiver who stupidly jumps into a crowd of opposing defenders for the ball - Can't hit any offensive player who puts himself in a position to be defenseless Sure sounds a lot like where the NHL should be going, amirite? Don't worry, the NFL is turning into touch/flag football, and the NHL is turning into pond hockey. Well before then, I'll quit watching both leagues. This crap about safety in violent sports is ridiculous. Oh - I never said I was gay neither, not there's anything wrong with that - do you have a problem with it? Strange that you would assume I was and/or Mike was or make something up like that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 There was absolutely no mention of fighting there, but if my problem was fighting, why then did I mention the NFL? Is fighting allowed there? I'd say try and think, but you're too busy making up your own stories to respond to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Building Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Firstly, I am pro fighting in hockey. I'm entertained by it when it is necessary, yet disgusted by it when it isn't. For instance, after a monster clean hit that does not result in injury when some oaf challenges the hitter. People do this in the real world too when someone does something better than them and they aren't talented enough to stand out in a positive fashion, so they offer a low talent/low IQ response: drop the gloves and challenge. I'm all for fighting after cheap shots, or repeated attempts at a star or important player, just not straight up goonery. Secondly: I really don't care what Milbury thinks. His ilk is no different than the main stream media. They try to stay relevant by creating issues that they can massage for their benefit. Anyone who understands the game realizes that pure enforcers have been on the way out of hockey for over 5 years now. CUP contending teams have to role 4 lines to win. Enforcers who play less than 5 TOI's a night don't cut it. Fans should be very vigilant about NHL actions to protect their 'assets' from possible injuries that fighting might present. From a corporate prospective it is not a good idea to have a Crosby fighting or being hit along the boards. How much can the game be changed to protect players before the game loses. IMHO hockey has always been the challenge of finesse versus physical challenge. Each year the physical challenge aspect is reduced to the detriment of the game. Players who do not want the physical challenge can usually avoid it. Bottom line is the hockey is a very physical contact game. When players can no longer 'police themselves' to a degree the game will again take another step back from what it was originally all about. Another form of elitism which permeates today's world. So you are pro fighting or what? Milbury is an idiot, sure, but coming from an era of goonery as someone who actually played at the NHL level actually gives him the right to an opinion just as you being a fan gives you a right to one. He's older, maybe not wiser, that's debatable, but he has watched the game evolve over the decades just as others have. Some people in this thread just spout off without applying any critical thought to the OP simply because Milbury is in the title. Enforcers are definitively on the way out of the game, but it has nothing to do with protecting or not protecting players, or not wanting to see Crosby fight, or teams not wanting to ice one, it's all about the salary cap and the salary cap only in a league where, as you stated, 4 lines are needed to win night in and night out. Fighting needs to exist so players like hammer and nugent-hopkins, Iginla-ohlund, kesler-brown.... can let off the steam without putting a stick in a guys throat. Fighting needs to exist because the league doesn't have the balls to enforce the appropriate penalty for said sticks to the throat. 1-2 games is a pittance to every player, financially and emotionally. If the league actually stiffened suspensions, like Shanahan attempted to do during his first preseason and first 1/5 of the regular season (before being muzzled? I don't know), then perhaps some players would think a little more about their actions if the result would be missing 1/4 of the season. If they are really worried about concussions and injuries they would get rid of the armor they use now instead of pads. This. These guys are zipping around at high speeds wearing shoulder pads that a homerun hitter in the MLB could knock dingers out of the park with. Personal safety, right. This gear provides players a sense of security to run recklessly around the ice. The other player may be wearing the same pads, but if he is vulnerable it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So Nug is out. Hammertime was too much. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/oilers-rnh-gets-in-first-nhl-fight-listed-day-to-day/ The fighting is a love/hate thing for me. Love the action and how it elevates play afterward. Hate that guys get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Kesler Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Fighting isn't causing nearly as man concussions as boarding, taking runs at people, and elbows. If anything needs to be gone, scale back the pads so players can lauch themselves at each other with reckless abandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.