What's your excuse for eating meat?

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Because giving my body the energy it needs to survive and do more (i.e. exercise) in the most affordable way possible is more important than an animal's life.

Allowing a family of 4 who is barely making end's meat (haha see what I did there?) to buy an 8 dollar box of a bunch of frozen chicken breasts from Walmart in order to fill their stomachs is more important than an animal's life.

Anyways, keep going. My entire breakfast (which included 2 massive breakfast sausages that came from a pack of 5 costing me 6 bucks and 3 eggs from a carton that was on sale for 3 bucks at Superstore) was finished while reading this juicy thread filled with blood red meat.

[Stefan]

Because giving my body the energy it needs to survive and do more (i.e. exercise) in the most affordable way possible is more important than an animal's life.

So what does that have to do with consuming animals.

It shouldn't be news to anyone that vegetation provides the absolute highest source of nutrition, not meat.

Anticipating the "but what about protein" comment, legumes have protein, hemp has protein, and lots of vegetables have protein, and eggs are one of the absolute highest, cleanest sources of protein.

Sorry, did you just try to make a correlation to big macs and providing your body with what's best in the same post?

What?

Oh you changed it to frozen processed meat.

Nice...

I guess you'll need lots of exercise to burn off that saturated fat from your frozen dinners. I'll spend the same amount per pound of food, have peace of mind knowing I'm enjoying whole foods, and have perfectly fine energy levels...

I mean, I used to eat a lot of chicken. Lots. Three beasts a day. Wasn't very expensive, and chicken is undeniably a good source of clean protein. But you're going to use frozen processed food as your leverage for your argument?

[KoreanHockeyFan]

So what does that have to do with consuming animals.

It shouldn't be news to anyone that vegetation provides the absolute highest source of nutrition, not meat.

Anticipating the "but what about protein" comment, legumes have protein, hemp has protein, and lots of vegetables have protein, and eggs are one of the absolute highest, cleanest sources of protein.

Sorry, did you just try to make a correlation to big macs and providing your body with what's best in the same post?

What?

Oh you changed it to frozen processed meat.

Nice...

I guess you'll need lots of exercise to burn off that saturated fat from your frozen dinners. I'll spend the same amount per pound of food, have peace of mind knowing I'm enjoying whole foods, and have perfectly fine energy levels...

What saturated fats? You should really take a look at buying Blue Menu Chicken Breasts from Superstore. 0.4g of Saturated Fats and 26g of Protein from a single breast. Perfect for my post-workout meals. And sorry, but I like eating meals that are healthy and tasty, I ****ing hate veggies and I force feed them to myself after getting overweight when I was a kid, but mixing those veggies I hate with that 8 dollar box of chicken breasts is the perfect compromise.

What we need to fix is the fact is that people don't have the money to buy foods they want to actually eat. Some families can literally only afford to pick off a couple items off the dollar value menu at McDonalds.

Why buy a single cucumber for 2.50 at Superstore (and it is 2.50, as a college student who tries to save, I keep track of these prices) when you can buy 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers at the same price? That's the problem.

[KoreanHockeyFan]

This:

plus this:

equals win.

10 bucks for the box, 6 bucks for the bag. 3 meals. Just a little over 5 bucks per meal. I'm happy.

[Stefan]

What saturated fats? You should really take a look at buying Blue Menu Chicken Breasts from Superstore. 0.4g of Saturated Fats and 26g of Protein from a single breast. Perfect for my post-workout meals. And sorry, but I like eating meals that are healthy and tasty, I ****ing hate veggies and I force feed them to myself after getting overweight when I was a kid, but mixing those veggies I hate with that 8 dollar box of chicken breasts is the perfect compromise.

What we need to fix is the fact is that people don't have the money to buy foods they want to actually eat. Some families can literally only afford to pick off a couple items off the dollar value menu at McDonalds.

Why buy a single cucumber for 2.50 at Superstore (and it is 2.50, as a college student who tries to save, I keep track of these prices) when you can buy 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers at the same price? That's the problem.

Well I guess the problem is where you're buying your produce.

Also you mentioned you were formerly overweight but keep using fast food as leverage to why you shouldn't eat vegetables... I think you're missing something here.

Cheeseburgers from fast food places don't provide much nutrition and are generally considered "empty calories".

A cucumber is a bad example since it's essentially roughage and water, but carrots, spinach, kale, etc etc all provide essential nutrition at relatively reasonable prices... Just go to produce markets.

But whatever dude, if you find the value in frozen meat then power to you. I understand affordability is a huge thing in Vancouver. Check out Clancy's meat market. They have 2 dollar chicken breasts.

Legumes are also super cheap and great for you, and there's tons of dishes you can make with veggies that are delicious. I can make a pot of Lentil soup for 5 dollars, and the nutritional benefits are great. Lasts several meals. Add some bacon if you need to, at least you're getting a great balanced diet. Don't tell me your only option is cheese burgers and frozen nuggets because you're struggling to make ends meet. The issue is you aren't looking hard.

I've also had that bag of kale, it's wicked. Managed to find it for 3 bucks at a local market a few times until they stopped carrying it.

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

What saturated fats? You should really take a look at buying Blue Menu Chicken Breasts from Superstore. 0.4g of Saturated Fats and 26g of Protein from a single breast. Perfect for my post-workout meals. And sorry, but I like eating meals that are healthy and tasty, I ****ing hate veggies and I force feed them to myself after getting overweight when I was a kid, but mixing those veggies I hate with that 8 dollar box of chicken breasts is the perfect compromise.

What we need to fix is the fact is that people don't have the money to buy foods they want to actually eat. Some families can literally only afford to pick off a couple items off the dollar value menu at McDonalds.

Why buy a single cucumber for 2.50 at Superstore (and it is 2.50, as a college student who tries to save, I keep track of these prices) when you can buy 2 Jr. Bacon Cheeseburgers at the same price? That's the problem.

Bulking up ahead of the playoff hate you'll be getting there?

I can't believe a damned cuke is 2.50. Jesus. Buying seasonal should help a bit. But honestly, protein is not a very cheap option. Of course, if you do get meat, chicken thighs is the best cheap option out there.

Nothing beats pasta for cost, except instant noodles. Take the 2 cheapest veggies (an onion and a carrot) and a small can of puree and you can have a pretty rudimentary tomato sauce. You can get a huge bag of spaghetti for cheap at superstore. I guess this is sorta beyond the scope of this thread, but I've never heard anyone say they eat meat because it's cheaper.

[Mongrel]

I mean, from what I've read, statistically meat based farms are significantly worse environmentally than vegan farms. Plus you don't need to put an animal through hell for several years... And due to the massive amounts of anti biotics being pumped into livestock there is a new risk of antibiotic resistant infections in humans...

It's the lesser of two evils.

I visit all the animals I've eaten over the last 8 years and I eat them without them going through hell for years. Also none of my meat has been pumped with any antibiotics unnecessarily. Every farm I buy from will use antibiotics when needed as do most farms that aren't mass market farming or labeling themselves organic. (organic labeling is a joke btw)

Also mass farming is not environmentally friendly. Lesser of two evils is still evil. That's fine if there were just two choices but there are way more.

I'd be curious to know the source of what you read. Farming is a very broad term with many ways to go about it. I buy my beef from a 120 acre farm. The farmer raises 12 heads of cattle give or take. His cost per cow was less that 150 per year as he also hays his own field and sells hay to local markets and other farms. 120 acres for 12 cows sounds pretty egregious but he uses roughly 30 acres for haying, 10 acres for his cows and 20 acres for vegetables he sells at farmers markets. (pretty sure there is also an acre in the back where he's making special cigarettes but that's just a guess)

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Well I guess the problem is where you're buying your produce.

Also you mentioned you were formerly overweight but keep using fast food as leverage to why you shouldn't eat vegetables... I think you're missing something here.

Cheeseburgers from fast food places don't provide much nutrition and are generally considered "empty calories".

A cucumber is a bad example since it's essentially roughage and water, but carrots, spinach, kale, etc etc all provide essential nutrition at relatively reasonable prices... Just go to produce markets.

But whatever dude, if you find the value in frozen meat then power to you. I understand affordability is a huge thing in Vancouver. Check out Clancy's meat market. They have 2 dollar chicken breasts.

Legumes are also super cheap and great for you, and there's tons of dishes you can make with veggies that are delicious. I can make a pot of Lentil soup for 5 dollars, and the nutritional benefits are great. Lasts several meals. Add some bacon if you need to, at least you're getting a great balanced diet. Don't tell me your only option is cheese burgers and frozen nuggets because you're struggling to make ends meet. The issue is you aren't looking hard.

I've also had that bag of kale, it's wicked. Managed to find it for 3 bucks at a local market a few times until they stopped carrying it.

No, that fast food example was actually used to point out that some poor families have fast food as their number one option because it is more affordable than a single cucumber. But, I didn't really make that comparison clear so that was my fault.

Clancy's Meat Market I will definitely take a look at when I return to Vancouver. I have a Loblaws that is a 2 minute walk away from my place so convenience is also a huge factor.

And god no, Nuggets and cheeseburgers would have too many fats and ruin the distribution of my macronutrients for the day.

Getting back on the topic of the debate, bottom line, I just find that finding food that is affordable, sufficiently feeds me, and tastes good is more important than the treatment of 5000 pigs in a farm owned by Tyson Foods. Sorry, if you find this view to be repulsive, but that's just how I see it.

What needs to be fixed is the fact that a god damn Cheeseburger at a fast food restaurant is more affordable then a head of lettuce from a produce market. I'm sure we would all love to eat meat that was humanly raised and slaughtered, but the fact that is that these meats are more expensive.

Bulking up ahead of the playoff hate you'll be getting there?

I can't believe a damned cuke is 2.50. Jesus. Buying seasonal should help a bit. But honestly, protein is not a very cheap option. Of course, if you do get meat, chicken thighs is the best cheap option out there.

Nothing beats pasta for cost, except instant noodles. Take the 2 cheapest veggies (an onion and a carrot) and a small can of puree and you can have a pretty rudimentary tomato sauce. You can get a huge bag of spaghetti for cheap at superstore. I guess this is sorta beyond the scope of this thread, but I've never heard anyone say they eat meat because it's cheaper.

I will keep that in mind. I've been trying to find meals that have less carbs. I did buy 4 boxes of pasta noodles for like 4.50 yesterday, so maybe I'll do something with that as well.

[Warhippy]

I visit all the animals I've eaten over the last 8 years and I eat them without them going through hell for years. Also none of my meat has been pumped with any antibiotics unnecessarily. Every farm I buy from will use antibiotics when needed as do most farms that aren't mass market farming or labeling themselves organic. (organic labeling is a joke btw)

Also mass farming is not environmentally friendly. Lesser of two evils is still evil. That's fine if there were just two choices but there are way more.

I'd be curious to know the source of what you read. Farming is a very broad term with many ways to go about it. I buy my beef from a 120 acre farm. The farmer raises 12 heads of cattle give or take. His cost per cow was less that 150 per year as he also hays his own field and sells hay to local markets and other farms. 120 acres for 12 cows sounds pretty egregious but he uses roughly 30 acres for haying, 10 acres for his cows and 20 acres for vegetables he sells at farmers markets. (pretty sure there is also an acre in the back where he's making special cigarettes but that's just a guess)

id like to know this farm. Is it in the lower mainland?

I purchase from a 65 acre spread on sub lots in keremeos. It's a bit of a drive but the beef is good abd the turkey and chicken just dont have a comparison to anything in the store. I Normally ignore pork unless i go to the Mennonite farm just south of salmon arm.

But if this is out towards Vancouver I'll happily stop in if they do public sales when i visit the coast

[Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw]

No, that fast food example was actually used to point out that some poor families have fast food as their number one option because it is more affordable than a single cucumber. But, I didn't really make that comparison clear so that was my fault.

Clancy's Meat Market I will definitely take a look at when I return to Vancouver. I have a Loblaws that is a 2 minute walk away from my place so convenience is also a huge factor.

And god no, Nuggets and cheeseburgers would have too many fats and ruin the distribution of my macronutrients for the day.

Getting back on the topic of the debate, bottom line, I just find that finding food that is affordable, sufficiently feeds me, and tastes good is more important than the treatment of 5000 pigs in a farm owned by Tyson Foods. Sorry, if you find this view to be repulsive, but that's just how I see it.

What needs to be fixed is the fact that a god damn Cheeseburger at a fast food restaurant is more affordable then a head of lettuce from a produce market. I'm sure we would all love to eat meat that was humanly raised and slaughtered, but the fact that is that these meats are more expensive.

I will keep that in mind. I've been trying to find meals that have less carbs. I did buy 4 boxes of pasta noodles for like 4.50 yesterday, so maybe I'll do something with that as well.

Compare and contrast breasts to thighs. A breast shouldn't be cheaper than a thigh. I also think there's more potential in the thigh. If just seasoning and put on rice, thigh every time for me.

[Grapefruits]

[Mongrel]

id like to know this farm. Is it in the lower mainland?

I purchase from a 65 acre spread on sub lots in keremeos. It's a bit of a drive but the beef is good abd the turkey and chicken just dont have a comparison to anything in the store. I Normally ignore pork unless i go to the Mennonite farm just south of salmon arm.

But if this is out towards Vancouver I'll happily stop in if they do public sales when i visit the coast.

It's in King Fisher which is just outside Enderby.

[GLASSJAW]

The question is what business is it of yours or anyone elses?

Mass industry meat growth is an issue. But Veganism is by far at this point FAR worse for the deforestation and clear cutting of the rainforest. So much so that whole countries have signed on and pledged to curb growth at times when industrial meat stock growth has been on the decline for over 2 decades..

The crops grown by use for tofu and other vegan dishes are currently directly responsible for the bulk of the stripping and clear cutting of old growth forests in developing countries and the amazon in an around Brazil. It has also made such staples impossible to purchase for people who have relied on food stuffs like Quinoa for generations due to price increases and industrial farming

http://www.dw.de/brazil-to-take-soy-lead-with-respect-for-rainforest/a-16547231

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/16/vegans-stomach-unpalatable-truth-quinoa

So instead of asking what MY excuse for eating meat is, ask yourself what exactly your excuse is for degrading someone's choice to continue the same way nature intended for millions of while choosing to assist in the degradation of our environment for your "healthy alternative lifestyle"

hello Mr Alpha Predator,

Just so you know, over 70% of all Amazon deforestation is directly because of cattle farming.

(http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/beef-production-is-killing-the-amazon-rainforest/)

and

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_rainforest#Causes_of_deforestation)

but yes, if people want to be conscious of their global impact, they should be aware of whether or not their food will screw over someone else in the process (like the Bolivians) -- but for those who are curious to learn more about it, here is an article from Slate which pretty much calls The Guardian article alarmist and says why there is reason to be optimistic: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/food/2013/01/quinoa_bad_for_bolivian_and_peruvian_farmers_ignore_the_media_hand_wringing.2.html

finally, I do think one of the articles I posted (also from the Guardian) discusses how if people cut back on their obsessive red meat eating, then farming space could be opened up to feed just as many people with less consuming OF property -- meaning, more farmers could make more crops to feed more people without having animals die horrible deaths and without the environment being dramatically ravaged in the process. That isn't to say that it's a pure, perfect process -- but it's one that benefits everyone.

as for my excuse for degrading people? it's simple: people evolve. some, it seems, faster than others. parts of america are now facing EXTREME drought, and yet we are wasting how much water to keep billions of animals caged up to die? we are facing potentially massive environmental concerns, and yet the scientific consensus is that a smart car would be less effective than simply cutting out some of our obsessive red meat consumption? and of course think of how these animals suffer for NO REASON BEYOND CORPORATE CONVENIENCE. why is it so unreasonable to discuss this stuff? why is it so unreasonable for people to re-think their approach to life without getting so upset? knowing what you know, you have to be equipped with an excuse, otherwise you are just willfully ignorant IMO.

[Twilight Sparkle]

Basically.

#TeamPeople

but we're forgetting about when the ants decide to take over the world o:

#teamants

[Warhippy]

It's in King Fisher which is just outside Enderby.

Oh beauty man that's actually really close. Have you actually been to the Mennonite farms out there? All organic and all hand made. Really amazing stuff and only about 30 minutes away

[Templeton Peck]

Locked temporarily for moderation.

[:D]

Genesis tells me that these animals are under my dominion.

As for how they are handled prior to me getting my mitts on them, that I am willfully blind to.

[Mongrel]

Oh beauty man that's actually really close. Have you actually been to the Mennonite farms out there? All organic and all hand made. Really amazing stuff and only about 30 minutes away

I wasn't aware there was a mennonite community out there at all. Is it further out towards the golf course?

I generally stay away from "organic" when it comes to meat but my interest is peaked. What do they have in terms of meats? I'm already sold on going to look at the furniture with the word mennonite.

[Grapefruits]

Here are a few of the places I purchase my meat from on a regular basis. You pay a little more but it's well worth it for the quality of the meat.

Lepp Farms

http://www.leppfarmmarket.com/

Heritage Meats

http://www.heritagemeatsgourmet.com/

Clancys

http://www.clancysmeatco.com/

[Webster6]

Well this thread sure continued the old and honored CDC tradition of missing the point and getting jimmies rustled instead.

"I don't need an excuse!" cried the masses. As if it's a relevant answer to the OP. Looks like GJ's point went over people's heads like a G6. Like a G6.

Look at the thread title. That's all it took for the content of his post to be irrelevant. He was calling people out, whether he saw it that way or not.