Brock Boeser | #6 | RW

[Hortankin]

9 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

 

Agreed. A similar comparison would be the Leafs offering Jake Gardiner for Bo Horvat. Jake Gardiner is a good defenseman, but this trade would not be good for the Canucks and as fans we would not be happy about it. 
 

 

Are you comparing Gardiner with Tanev? Hahahaha I'm actually weak right now

 

Tanev+Baertschi should be enough to pry Domi and a 6th/7th from the Yotes

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Hortankin said:

Are you comparing Gardiner with Tanev? Hahahaha I'm actually weak right now

 

Tanev+Baertschi should be enough to pry Domi and a 6th/7th from the Yotes

Take off your homer glasses. 

Age, contract minutes etc are all similar. Gardiner has 14 points and 31 points with a +4 on a crap team. Having to sit through my share of Leaf games he is a solid two-way defender. The Leafs are around mid-pack for goals against. Outside of Reilly / Zaitsev / Gardiner their D is full of young guys and scrubs. 

In regards to shot suppression, he is really one of the few players in the league who competes with Tanev and he puts up points. So, what exactly is making you "weak right now"? The fact that he wears a Leaf jersey? Does that make Jake Virtanen better than Auston Matthews? I really dislike the Leafs (and have reason to more than probably anybody on these boards), but as a Canucks fan I think we probably have the worst, most insecure group of fans in the league. It is pathetic.

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by canucklehead44

[DeltaSwede]

9 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

Take off your homer glasses. 

Age, contract minutes etc are all similar. Gardiner has 14 points and 31 points with a +4 on a crap team. Having to sit through my share of Leaf games he is a solid two-way defender. The Leafs are around mid-pack for goals against. Outside of Reilly / Zaitsev / Gardiner their D is full of young guys and scrubs. 

In regards to shot suppression, he is really one of the few players in the league who competes with Tanev and he puts up points. So, what exactly is making you "weak right now"? The fact that he wears a Leaf jersey? Does that make Jake Virtanen better than Auston Matthews? I really dislike the Leafs (and have reason to more than probably anybody on these boards), but as a Canucks fan I think we probably have the worst, most insecure group of fans in the league. It is pathetic.

 

 

Wrong moment to try to put down Canucks fans. Jake Gardiner is not near as good as Tanev, whatever your hero chart says. By the way, hero charts are pretty useless to begin with.. 

 

Boeser playing as well as he did at the beginning of the season while having issues with his wrist makes it even more impressive. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by DeltaSwede

[canucklehead44]

9 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

 

Wrong moment to try to put down Canucks fans. Jake Gardiner is not near as good as Tanev, whatever your hero chart says. 

Explain what would make up the huge difference in value. Not as a Canucks fan, but as a third party? Do you believe other teams would pay significantly more for Tanev than Gardiner? Gardiner makes a lot more mistakes, but he also puts up a lot more points. Tanev is a beast defensively, but given his lack of offense and non-physical play I think he is undervalued. 

I wouldn't trade Tanev for Gardiner, but I am a homer. I don't think a lot of people in Toronto would trade Gardiner for Tanev. There are a lot of ex-pro hockey players in my office (one guy played with Tanev at RIT). I'd be happy to get a more professional point of view if you like. If most take Tanev and say Gardiner is garbage I will gladly eat my words. 

This isn't an argument of who is better, it is about perceived trade value. Even as a huge Tanev fan, I think they would net similar returns. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by canucklehead44

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

2 hours ago, Mackcanuck said:

NEWS 1130 SportsVerified account ‏@NEWS1130Sports  1m1 minute ago

Just talked with Brock Boeser about his wrist surgery and missing the World Junior hockey Championships. #Canucks

 

NEWS 1130 SportsVerified account ‏@NEWS1130Sports  2m2 minutes ago

Boeser thinks he may have hurt the wrist at the U-S junior summer camp, they don't know for sure. #Canucks

 

NEWS 1130 SportsVerified account ‏@NEWS1130Sports  1m1 minute ago

Boeser says he felt pain when he shot, stickhandled and passed. Surgery was right thing to do. #Canucks

 

NEWS 1130 SportsVerified account ‏@NEWS1130Sports  2m2 minutes ago

Boeser says his wrist and hand feel great after the surgery. He's looking at 3-6 weeks of rehab. #Canucks

 

NEWS 1130 SportsVerified account ‏@NEWS1130Sports  2m2 minutes ago

Boeser on no world junior's : "That is tough, it is very hard not being able to represent your country." #Canucks

 

 

 

 

 

I can see him making goalies cry when he get's back her....

[DeltaSwede]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

Explain what would make up the huge difference in value. Not as a Canucks fan, but as a third party? Do you believe other teams would pay significantly more for Tanev than Gardiner? Gardiner makes a lot more mistakes, but he also puts up a lot more points. Tanev is a beast defensively, but given his lack of offense and non-physical play I think he is undervalued. 

I wouldn't trade Tanev for Gardiner, but I am a homer. I don't think a lot of people in Toronto would trade Gardiner for Tanev. There are a lot of ex-pro hockey players in my office (one guy played with Tanev at RIT). I'd be happy to get a more professional point of view if you like. If most take Tanev and say Gardiner is garbage I will gladly eat my words. 

This isn't an argument of who is better, it is about perceived trade value. Even as a huge Tanev fan, I think they would net similar returns. 

 

It's not a question about Gardiner being garbage, he's a top 4 defender and he's had a good season. I don't think he holds more trade value than Tanev, at all. Leaf fans should and would gladly take Tanev for Gardiner. Easy trade for them to make.

 

Why Tanev is more valuable:

• Right handed
• Top pairing not a middle pair like Gardiner
• He's an elite shutdown defensemen
• More consistent performer over a longer sample period
• He carries his partner, Gardiner needs to be carried 
• He's got a year longer on his fantastic contract (4.5 a year for a top pairing guy), Gardiner will get a pay-rise earlier and is already at 4 mil per. 

 

This is a post regarding Reilly vs. Tanev and why Tanev is better than Reilly. Reilly is clearly better than Gardiner. This is from a Leafs fan.

Quote

Please read this (A lot of fans have been asking 'where's the proof', I will be quoting this paragraph from now on). Here you go:
Proof that Tanev is clearly a #1 and thus better than Rielly right now:

1) He played 21:45/game(top pairing on team) w/ 35% defensive starts & 26% offensive starts

2) His dCorsiCA (How he handled his usage including minutes+zone starts) was -58, which is REALLY good. Meaning he can handle even harder usage and more minutes than his usual top pairing usage. His dCorsiCA has been good his entire career and has gotten better every year even with more difficult usage.

3) His CA60Reltm was -7.5, which was the best on the team by a LOT. Next best was Hamhuis with -3.8. His CA60Reltm was 4th best in the league among top-pairing D (Lindholm, Doughty, Campbell were ahead of him).

4) His most common linemate was Edler, followed by the Sedins. Considering the Sedins and this pairing went up against other top competition (Canuck fans please confirm this if true), we can use WOWYS to see if his stats were boosted by playing with either Edler or the Sedins.

HOWEVER, Tanev did the same with the Sedins and away from the Sedins. In fact his CA60 was 50.6, while Sedins away from Tanev was 53 despite Tanev having the harder usage away.

What about Edler? AGAIN, Tanev did better away from Edler. His CA60 was 51 away from Edler, while Edlers was 61. 

Thus as you can see Tanev with top pairing usage, had elite shot supression numbers and his numbers suggest he can handle even harder minutes and usage. This makes him, IMO, a true #1 defender.

NOW for Rielly, I'm sure you've seen his before. Rielly's analysis like the one I posted above is terrible. The only thing about Rielly right now that makes him a #1 is his offensive game. His defensive game is severely lacking, which makes it clear he struggled in his usage this season. Rielly is not a #1 yet with that defensive game. Leaf fans can say 'He played the most minutes for the Leafs' or 'He was named best D for canada at the championships' all they want, he still struggled heavily in his #1 usage, which makes him NOT a #1.

 

Anyways, let's let this thread be about Boeser now! I bet you got some great stories about Tanev from your co-workers! 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by DeltaSwede

[Hortankin]

1 hour ago, canucklehead44 said:

Take off your homer glasses. 

Age, contract minutes etc are all similar. Gardiner has 14 points and 31 points with a +4 on a crap team. Having to sit through my share of Leaf games he is a solid two-way defender. The Leafs are around mid-pack for goals against. Outside of Reilly / Zaitsev / Gardiner their D is full of young guys and scrubs. 

In regards to shot suppression, he is really one of the few players in the league who competes with Tanev and he puts up points. So, what exactly is making you "weak right now"? The fact that he wears a Leaf jersey? Does that make Jake Virtanen better than Auston Matthews? I really dislike the Leafs (and have reason to more than probably anybody on these boards), but as a Canucks fan I think we probably have the worst, most insecure group of fans in the league. It is pathetic.

 

Anyone in a Leafs Jersey is a joke until they change jerseys. Look at Kessel

 

OK mr. Analytics guy, would you trade Tanev straight up for him?

Edited December 20, 2016 by Hortankin

[Tre Mac]

He'll sign here guaranteed.  If he doesn't I will delete my CDC account.©

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Hortankin said:

Anyone in a Leafs Jersey is a joke until they change jerseys. Look at Kessel

 

OK mr. Analytics guy, would you trade Tanev straight up for him?

 

I wouldn't, no. I still think that Tanev is the better player, but Gardiner's value would be comparable in the trade market given the reasons I provided. I think trading Tanev would be a horrible idea - he is worth far more to the Canucks than what he would get in a trade (unless we get some sort of crazy Hall-like deal). 

If I were to chose between trading Horvat or Tanev for the exact same return, I'd trade Tanev. Domi and Horvat are very comparable, I tried to draw it into perspective (as Domi is extremely value to the Yotes). 


 

2 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

 

It's not a question about Gardiner being garbage, he's a top 4 defender and he's had a good season. I don't think he holds more trade value than Tanev, at all. Leaf fans should and would gladly take Tanev for Gardiner. Easy trade for them to make.

 

Why Tanev is more valuable:

• Right handed
• Top pairing not a middle pair like Gardiner
• He's an elite shutdown defensemen
• More consistent performer over a longer sample period
• He carries his partner, Gardiner needs to be carried 
• He's got a year longer on his fantastic contract (4.5 a year for a top pairing guy), Gardiner will get a pay-rise earlier and is already at 4 mil per. 

 

This is a post regarding Reilly vs. Tanev and why Tanev is better than Reilly. Reilly is clearly better than Gardiner. This is from a Leafs fan.

 

Anyways, let's let this thread be about Boeser now! I bet you got some great stories about Tanev from your co-workers! 

 

 

+1, thanks for providing your point of view and I agree with everything you said.

 

Reilly is way better than Gardiner. He will be their #1 dman for many years. I just think Tanev is massively underrated. I would argue he is a top 5 in the league for preventing goals. If he scored points an/or was very physical he would be a norris level. Playing on a good team would also raise his stock. His trade value would not reflect the value he brings to our team. 

Edler on the other hand... 

And as for Boeser, such a bummer about his wrist injury. I am very high on him. At the time of the draft many people were unsure what to think. I was probably more excited about the potential of Boeser than any player we've drafted since Cody Hodgson (I think he has 30-35 goal potential). Horvat is already better than many expected him to be (2nd/3rd line centre). He is around where I expected his ceiling - and he is still getting better. Juolevi is going to be great as well. I was never sold on Virtanen but understand why we made the pick. 

 

[DeltaSwede]

41 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

And as for Boeser, such a bummer about his wrist injury. I am very high on him. At the time of the draft many people were unsure what to think. I was probably more excited about the potential of Boeser than any player we've drafted since Cody Hodgson (I think he has 30-35 goal potential). Horvat is already better than many expected him to be (2nd/3rd line centre). He is around where I expected his ceiling - and he is still getting better. Juolevi is going to be great as well. I was never sold on Virtanen but understand why we made the pick. 

spot on. 

 

I'm not going to lie, when Boeser was picked I let out a sigh because I was hoping for a defender and I don't follow the USHL at all. Couldn't be happier with the pick, he's incredibly talented. 

[canucklehead44]

15 hours ago, DeltaSwede said:

spot on. 

 

I'm not going to lie, when Boeser was picked I let out a sigh because I was hoping for a defender and I don't follow the USHL at all. Couldn't be happier with the pick, he's incredibly talented. 

 

The USHL is interesting. Not a lot of star players but it seems players drafted from there in the top two rounds have a good probability of being solid NHL players.

 

At the time of the draft I gathered info on the USHL forwards drafted in the top two rounds over the past 12 years or were first year college players out or th USHL.

 

Including a bunch of top six players like Kyle Okposo, David Backes, Max Pacioretty etc Boeser put up better USHL numbers than every single player except Thomas Vanek. Vanek scored 42 goals as a 23 year old in the NHL. Boeser and Vanek also sported almost identical point totals in year one of college hockey.

 

I wasn't too surprised by his outstanding freshman campaign. I just hope that this surgery doesn't knock him off of his trajectory.

[DeltaSwede]

30 minutes ago, canucklehead44 said:

 

The USHL is interesting. Not a lot of star players but it seems players drafted from there in the top two rounds have a good probability of being solid NHL players.

 

At the time of the draft I gathered info on the USHL forwards drafted in the top two rounds over the past 12 years or were first year college players out or th USHL.

 

Including a bunch of top six players like Kyle Okposo, David Backes, Max Pacioretty etc Boeser put up better USHL numbers than every single player except Thomas Vanek. Vanek scored 42 goals as a 23 year old in the NHL. Boeser and Vanek also sported almost identical point totals in year one of college hockey.

 

I wasn't too surprised by his outstanding freshman campaign. I just hope that this surgery doesn't knock him off of his trajectory.

 

I think the surgery is so minor that the potential complications are highly limited. If anything, his wrist will get stronger than it was before and that makes me believe he'll have even more room for development. I always try to keep my expectations as low as possible in terms of prospects because it's important to be patient and not expect immediate impact, with Boeser it's tough not to expect him to come in and look like a fairly accomplished player already. It's going to be really neat to see both Stecher and Boeser playing together again. They both seem to be the type of players that just love the game of hockey and spend most of their time just having fun. If Boeser can equal the work ethic of Stecher, combined with his talent, the Canucks no doubt have a very, very good young player coming into the fold. Boeser has got the potential to be a 30-35 goal scorer. Possibly peaking for a few seasons at an even higher number. He certainly projects, when looking at his junior numbers and college numbers, to be in company with some very good NHLers. He's gone through a lot of adversities and seems to be that classical "character guy". Super stoked on him. 

[shazzam]

oh no we're doomed. Craig Button calls Boeser one of the best players outside in the NHL

[Phat Fingers]

On December 21, 2016 at 10:35 AM, canucklehead44 said:

 

The USHL is interesting. Not a lot of star players but it seems players drafted from there in the top two rounds have a good probability of being solid NHL players.

 

At the time of the draft I gathered info on the USHL forwards drafted in the top two rounds over the past 12 years or were first year college players out or th USHL.

 

Including a bunch of top six players like Kyle Okposo, David Backes, Max Pacioretty etc Boeser put up better USHL numbers than every single player except Thomas Vanek. Vanek scored 42 goals as a 23 year old in the NHL. Boeser and Vanek also sported almost identical point totals in year one of college hockey.

 

I wasn't too surprised by his outstanding freshman campaign. I just hope that this surgery doesn't knock him off of his trajectory.

 

 

Don't know why in all the times I compare Boeser, that Vanek never came to mind. Great shooter in his prime, not Ovi esque, but still at the all star level. Man oh man, if Boeser can reach a similar level of play, we make out like bandits. 

 

 

[canucklehead44]

1 hour ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

 

 

Don't know why in all the times I compare Boeser, that Vanek never came to mind. Great shooter in his prime, not Ovi esque, but still at the all star level. Man oh man, if Boeser can reach a similar level of play, we make out like bandits. 

 

 

Good point, I do think there are a lot of similarities. Both have pretty good size and strength but not known to be physical. Both skate well but don't have breakaway acceleration. What makes Vanek and Boeser dangerous are their devastating wrist shots. Great point! I find comparisons are often too focused on nationality (Swedes compared with other Swedes etc.). I think Vanek is a great comparable. 

[Phat Fingers]

9 hours ago, canucklehead44 said:

Good point, I do think there are a lot of similarities. Both have pretty good size and strength but not known to be physical. Both skate well but don't have breakaway acceleration. What makes Vanek and Boeser dangerous are their devastating wrist shots. Great point! I find comparisons are often too focused on nationality (Swedes compared with other Swedes etc.). I think Vanek is a great comparable. 

 

Added to that, Boeser's best talent is his ability to find the seam or open spaces and let's the game come to him.  This is elite at his current level of play and if it translates to the NHL...

 

his shot, release and passing are all top notch, but it's his IQ that I think will set him apart.  

 

EW

Edited December 24, 2016 by Eastcoast meets Westcoast

[SamJamIam]

On 2016-12-23 at 7:21 PM, canucklehead44 said:

Good point, I do think there are a lot of similarities. Both have pretty good size and strength but not known to be physical. Both skate well but don't have breakaway acceleration. What makes Vanek and Boeser dangerous are their devastating wrist shots. Great point! I find comparisons are often too focused on nationality (Swedes compared with other Swedes etc.). I think Vanek is a great comparable. 

 

Actually Boeser skates pretty fast. I would say on par with Horvat.  He's also quite strong but happens to use it for offense, outmuscling opponents on the boards, liftings sticks, etc.  He can also throw decent hits but he doesn't need to since the puck is often on his stick or will be shortly.  Much more depth to his game than Vanek.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, SamJamIam said:

 

Actually Boeser skates pretty fast. I would say on par with Horvat.  He's also quite strong but happens to use it for offense, outmuscling opponents on the boards, liftings sticks, etc.  He can also throw decent hits but he doesn't need to since the puck is often on his stick or will be shortly.  Much more depth to his game than Vanek.

Oh God.  If Boeser is only a Vanek level player we are so screwed. 

[-AJ-]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Oh God.  If Boeser is only a Vanek level player we are so screwed. 

I'd be fine with that. two 40+ goal seasons and four 30+ goal seasons is pretty good.

 

Unless sarcasm? I'm not sure here,

[Pears]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Oh God.  If Boeser is only a Vanek level player we are so screwed. 

So we're screwed if Boeser turns into a 2 x 40 goal scorer and a 4 x 30 goal scorer? K.