Exxon's Own Research Confirmed Fossil Fuels' Role in Global Warming Decades Ago

[inane]

Not important. As Carlin said, it's all about environmentalists making their own environment better, not about helping anyone else.

Oh goody! More asinine generalizations. This is pretty soft though, step it up!

[Mr. Ambien]

Is this going to be your most ignorant statement today or are you planning on besting it?

Just want to know if i should prepare myself or not.

I dunno, I guess it depends on your ability to become outraged at people being honest.

I'll just put it this way.. if you think Carlin was just bluffing, then so am I.

[TOMapleLaughs]

And nothing that we do for the environment is going to be of any use if we cant get India and almost all of Africa to quit pumping out 4-5-6 babies per female.

lol. These are the people that will be swimming in our garbage.

What's disturbing is that despite this article on Exxon's own research outlining the dangers of their man-made greenhouse effect, there will STILL be climate change denial from the same sources. wtf, are we just too stupid a species or something?

[MadMonk]

http://www.ideacityonline.com/video/patrick-moore-the-sensible-environmentalist/

Patrick Moore simply recycled all the usual gish-gallop talking points that are deeply flawed, and I'm not sure how that qualifies him as being `sensible'.

Taking his first slide with actual content, which contained a graph that supposedly shows no correlation between temperature and CO2, that one slide is already full of issues.

Short summary: he claims the chart shows observations but it definitely does not, and when you look at actual observations his claim is clearly false.

He claims that the chart shows proxy data (based on measurement), but that's actually not true. The temperature graph appears to be an adaptation of a hand draw schematic, not quantitative data; similarly for CO2, it is actually a model output based on some assumptions continental configuration, volcanic activity etc (see here for details). This is strange because there are actual proxy data that clearly shows higher CO2 coincides with warmer climate, and lower CO2 coincides with cooler climate and glaciation.

Why did he choose not to show it?

What's worse is that his argument is easily contradicted by his own. At 8:00 he states that there is no strong correlation between CO2 and temperature, yet mere 4 minutes later he presents this chart, which directly contradicts his claims

Even if we ignore the questionable quality of his data, his argument is nothing but a straw men (like most of his other arguments). He would have a point if the claim is that CO2 is the sole driver of climate, which is clearly not what climate scientist believes.

I've seen my fair share of talks by these`skeptics', but sadly none of these `skeptics' are genuinely interested in an accurate understanding of the science. All they do is to throw out one poor analysis after another, without actually presenting something that remotely resembles a scientific argument.

[Mr.DirtyDangles]

http://www.ideacityonline.com/video/patrick-moore-the-sensible-environmentalist/

LMMFAO !

[Angry Goose]

If only electric cars sounded cool! They sure can go fast though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkJjt_Peg0

[TOMapleLaughs]

Disappearing Countries:

Pacific Islanders Plead for Urgent Climate Action as Seas Rise

The village where Anote Tong attended school some 40 years ago is no longer there. As the Pacific Ocean encroached on the settlement, the villagers left for higher ground.

There is a church building and a meeting house, but nobody can go there because during high tide theyre sitting out in the middle of the water, said Tong, now president of the atoll nation of Kiribati.

Nowhere are the risks of climate change more evident than in the tiny island nations of the Pacific, where countless communities face inundation. Tuvalu has lost four islands since 2000. Islets have slipped beneath the waves in the Marshall Islands and Papua New Guinea. And in Palau, some houses -- still occupied -- flood daily.

The islanders plight gives them a powerful moral voice at a December meeting in Paris sponsored by the United Nations, where more than 190 countries will work toward a new agreement to fight global warming. And Tong will join the leaders of the Maldives, Palau, the Seychelles and other Pacific nations at the UN General Assembly starting Sept. 28 in New York to advocate for more urgent action in the runup to the Paris summit.

The islands are demanding a tightening of the international goal to rein in warming. In 2010, UN envoys agreed on a goal to cap the increase since the 19th century to 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit). Leaders of the island nations want a limit of 1.5 degrees, and that their countries deserve compensation for the suffering theyre likely to face even at that level.

There should be a funding mechanism available for damages that are irrecoverable, maybe in the form of insurance, said Ibrahim Thoriq, environment minister for the Maldives, a string of more than 1,000 islands in the Indian Ocean known for palm-lined white sand beaches.

Ice Sheets

Christiana Figueres, the UN official overseeing the Paris talks, has said its unlikely participants will agree to measures ambitious enough to meet the 2-degree goal, let alone the more stringent target sought by the islanders. Her predecessor, Yvo de Boer, who now advises developing nations on climate change as head of the Global Green Growth Institute in Seoul, backs her.

Paris is not going to keep your feet dry, or your desert wet, or your lake filled, said de Boer. Moreover, he said, the draft agreement is staggeringly empty in terms of strong proposals to meet the financial needs of developing countries.

Sea levels have risen 19 centimeters (7.5 inches) since 1901, and NASA scientists say an increase of at least 1 meter (39 inches) is probably unavoidable as warmer temperatures expand ocean water and ice sheets melt. With thousands of islands worldwide topping out at little more than two or three meters above sea level, countless homes and livelihoods are under threat.

Atoll islands are, by their very nature, vulnerable, said John Hunter, an oceanographer who has authored more than 20 papers on rising sea levels. Take a dining tray, make a little pile of sand in the middle, add some water - and swish it about a bit -- thats an atoll island.

Across the ages, waves, currents, volcanic activity and subsidence have hoisted islands from the sea and then inundated them again. But greenhouse gas emissions from burning fossil fuels has increased the pace of change. In the 21st century, sea levels have increased at almost double the rate seen in the 1900s -- which was already far faster than the average of the previous 2,000 years, according to the UNs most recent assessment of global warming.

Fruit Bats

If you look historically at the pace of rises and falls, they occur over hundreds of years and not five or seven or 10 years, said Kevin Conrad, a climate negotiator for Papua New Guinea. What were finding are hugely dramatic changes that no one has seen.

Conrad, 47, recalls how he used to row a canoe to an island off Papua New Guineas north coast and take pot shots with a slingshot at fruit bats in the casuarina trees. Forty years later, water has swept the sand from under the roots, the trees are dead, and the bats are gone.

The sea level rise is insidious, its killing anything except scrub brush, said Conrad. It just eats away at the lifestyle.

More than 1,000 miles to the northeast, in the Marshall Islands, skeletons have been washed up from graves and its harder to grow crops as brackish water has penetrated the soil. An island owned by Amatlain Kabuas family disappeared while she was abroad on successive postings in the countrys diplomatic missions. Each time she returned home, the island, which once harbored nesting seabirds and fruit trees, got smaller and smaller.

It took a while for it to finally disappear, said Kabua, the countrys ambassador to the UN. Its not even exposed at low tide now. Its really under the sea.

Flooded Homes

In Palau, a mixture of atolls and volcanic islands north of Papua, homes in Sechemus and Butilei flood regularly at high tide. A decade ago, they were 5 meters from the sea, says Olai Uludong, the countrys ambassador on climate change.

Palau and Kiribati, outside the usual cyclone belt, have been hit by typhoons in recent years. Islanders fret such storms will become more frequent as warming temperatures alter weather patterns. In 2012, Typhoon Bopha split one of Palaus uninhabited islands in half.

Since being elected president of Kiribati in 2003, Tong has made frequent appeals to bigger countries to cut back emissions. Only when people see the consequences do they truly understand the gravity, he said, recalling a visit to Kiribati in 2011 by Secretary General Ban Ki-moon.

He said, Mr. President, for the first time I truly understand what youve been saying at the General Assembly, and I feel your problem, said Tong.

Tong says hes brutally realistic about the future of his country, which may have to focus on defending a few islands from the sea while letting others be swamped, so that Kiribati will remain on the map. Hes bought 6,000 acres in Fiji to provide food for his people, and says ultimately some citizens will have to relocate there or elsewhere.

The final outcome for us is pretty much a foregone conclusion, said Tong. So whats the point in going to Paris? We must continue to make the point that if the international community doesnt do anything, not only will we be in trouble, but others will follow.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-21/pacific-islanders-plead-for-urgent-climate-action-as-seas-rise

The losing of Pacific Island Nations is just the beginning. What happens when 'important' coastal cities like Miami go under?

Obviously there's going to be a lot of money flying around.

Since Exxon and the like knew about this problem since the 70's, researched it and proved it, and chose to bury it and deny it, wouldn't that mean they should flip a big portion of the bill towards insuring these nations and cities against the unavoidable damage caused by world ocean level rise? Certainly they've guided global energy use policy for their own gains and against what's best for the planet and it's people. Shouldn't that mean these corporations, not the people, should be liable?

When millions of people are homeless due to the greenhouse effect, I think this issue will come to a global forefront.

[TOMapleLaughs]

The Frontline video of the OP story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=3&v=37L_qi1hupI

[Hobble]

Can't wait for huge chunks of Florida and NY, New Orleans to get submerged, then the US might start caring.

In my opinion, the big polluting companies should foot a good chunk of the bill.

[TOMapleLaughs]

This story is becoming bigger.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/ 

 

But here's another angle:  Big oil to be hit up for damages like big tobacco?

 

Experts agree that the damage is huge, which is why they are likening Exxon’s deception to the lies spread by the tobacco industry. “I think there are a lot of parallels,”

[aGENT]

This story is becoming bigger.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/ 

 

But here's another angle:  Big oil to be hit up for damages like big tobacco?

 

I'd love to see it but the oil Co's have way too many fingers (and too much damn $$$) in politics for that to realistically happen.

[RWMc1]

One angle that people seem to miss is the access to resources that opens up with melting glaciers. There is a crapload of money to be made. That is why Russia is trying to claim land in the Arctic that Canada actually has the rights to due to the continental shelf being a part of Canada's continent.

[aGENT]

One angle that people seem to miss is the access to resources that opens up with melting glaciers. There is a crapload of money to be made. That is why Russia is trying to claim land in the Arctic that Canada actually has the rights to due to the continental shelf being a part of Canada's continent.

Nobody is missing that. Humanity' greed will continue even in the face of such blatant and sad irony.

[Alflives]

When I was younger, we learned cigarette companies knew the toxicity of their product, but did not convey that information to the public.  Now those same companies are making profit selling stop smoking products.  I'm certain the big oil companies already have present and future plans to profit from climate change.

[RWMc1]

Nobody is missing that. Humanity' greed will continue even in the face of such blatant and sad irony.

i think a lot of people are missing that point considering it isn't spoken of very often.

[Green Building]

i think a lot of people are missing that point considering it isn't spoken of very often.

I hear chatter. The real question is how does one go about changing it?

[Alflives]

I hear chatter. The real question is how does one go about changing it?

Buy more plastics.

[Green Building]

Buy more plastics.

Plastics are derivatives of oil. Unless you're being funny, in which case: Haha!

[TOMapleLaughs]

Quote

 

More Than Exxon: Big Oil Companies for Years Shared Damning Climate Research

 

New investigative reporting exposes a task force headed by the American Petroleum Institute also knew about global warming since the 1970's

It wasn't just Exxon that knew fossil fuels were cooking the planet.

New investigative reporting by Neela Banerjee with Inside Climate News revealed on Tuesday that scientists and engineers from nearly every major U.S. and multinational oil and gas company may have for decades known about the impacts of carbon emissions on the climate.

Between 1979 and 1983, the American Petroleum Institute (API), the industry's most powerful lobby group, ran a task force for fossil fuel companies to "monitor and share climate research," according to internal documents obtained by Inside Climate News.

According to the reporting:

Like Exxon, the companies also expressed a willingness to understand the links between their product, greater CO2 concentrations and the climate, the papers reveal. Some corporations ran their own research units as well, although they were smaller and less ambitious than Exxon's and focused on climate modeling, said James J. Nelson, the former director of the task force. 

"It was a fact-finding task force," Nelson said in an interview. "We wanted to look at emerging science, the implications of it and where improvements could be made, if possible, to reduce emissions."

The 'CO2 and Climate Task Force,' which changed in 1980 its name to the 'Climate and Energy Task Force,' included researchers from Exxon, Mobil, Chevron, Amoco, Phillips, Texaco, Shell, Sunoco, and Sohio, among others.

One memo by an Exxon task force representative pointed to 1979 "background paper on CO2," which "predicted when the first clear effects of climate change might be felt," noting that the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere was rising steadily.

And at a February 1980 meeting in New York, the task force invited Professor John A. Laurmann of Stanford University to brief members about climate science.

"In his conclusions section, Laurmann estimated that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere would double in 2038, which he said would likely lead to a 2.5 degrees Celsius rise in global average temperatures with 'major economic consequences,'" Banerjee reports. He then told the task force that models showed a 5 degrees Celsius rise by 2067, with 'globally catastrophic effects,'" Banerjee reports.

The documents show that API members, at one point, considered an alternative path in the face of these dire predictions:

Bruce S. Bailey of Texaco offered "for consideration" the idea that "an overall goal of the Task Force should be to help develop ground rules for energy release of fuels and the cleanup of fuels as they relate to CO2 creation," according to the minutes of a meeting on Feb. 29, 1980. 

The minutes also show that the task force discussed a "potential area" for research and development that called for it to "'Investigate the Market Penetration Requirements of Introducing a New Energy Source into World Wide Use.' This would include the technical implications of energy source changeover, research timing and requirements."

"Yet," Banerjee notes, "by the 1990s, it was clear that API had opted for a markedly different approach to the threat of climate change."

The lobby group teamed up with Exxon and others to form the Global Climate Coalition (GCC), which successfully lobbied the U.S. to withdraw from the Kyoto Protocol.

The damning revelations are the latest in an ongoing investigation into what the fossil fuel industry knew about climate change and then suppressed for decades —all while continuing to profit from the planet's destruction.

Reports that Exxon, specifically, lied about climate change were published early October in the Los Angeles Times, mirroring a separate but similar investigation by Inside Climate Newsin September. Those findings set off a storm of outrage, including a probe by the New York Attorney General.

Nelson, a former head of the API task force, told Banerjee that with the growing powers of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) in the early 1980's, API decided to shift gears.

"They took the environmental unit and put it into the political department, which was primarily lobbyists," he said. "They weren't focused on doing research or on improving the oil industry's impact on pollution. They were less interested in pushing the envelope of science and more interested in how to make it more advantageous politically or economically for the oil industry. That's not meant as a criticism. It's just a fact of life."

 

Wondering if this will inevitably lead to an epic-scale class-action lawsuit.  But how do you put a price on a: our planet and b: all life on it?

http://www.commondreams.org/news/2015/12/22/more-exxon-big-oil-companies-years-shared-damning-climate-research

 

[Hobble]

Sadly, they probably won't be punished, and they'll likely find a way to be one of the major profiteers from the green movement.