Leadership

[SaintPatrick33]

 

To me this is the most iconic picture of the Vancouver Canucks. This picture represents what I love about hockey.  When I see Linden with blood stains on his jersey, looking exhausted after a battle, and the embrace he gives his fellow teammate McClean tells me that no matter what I will follow this guy into battle. Linden will always be hockey royalty to me because he has so many of these moments. Remember that viscous cross-check he took in Game 6 from Messier? And still played and scored 2 goals in game 7? That is true hockey leadership, and win or lose, you just appreciate the effort and desire to sacrifice. \

Flash forward to this years team, and we realize what we have been missing for quite some time. This is no disrespect to Hank, who is a true franchise Captain and displays the demeanor and class of a Jean Beliveau. However, as Benning has stated, we seem to lack the pushback and ability to handle physical, intense play. Dorsett is the only guy who actually shows something and gets vocal with the other team, and I expected the other veterans to step up and at least show they care. Maybe we need assistant captains who will get vocal and keep the teams head in the game. 

A few moments this season made me cringe because it appears this team is too easy to play against:

1. McCann getting hit by Getzlaf, and absolutely ZERO response. Safe working environment? I wonder how McCann felt when none of the veterans even said anything to Getzlaf?

2. In our losses, particularly Boston and Minnesota, once the game was out of hand there was no attempt at moral victories. Usually you either fight, throw a few hits, try to show intensity because that's what competition is all about. In a game that is out of hand, I will still watch to see how a team responds, and this year it is sickening to see how deflated we look on the bench. 

3. Miller looking at Willie after the fourth goal vs Wild. IDK if they are trying to trade him or what, but Miller has not been handled well this year. Highly touted Markstrom should have been playing more to keep Miller fresh, especially with the amount of scoring chances per game we give up. Ruining your starters confidence will not really help!

4. Lack of after-whistle scrums. A sign of a team with solid chemistry is how many guys get involved in post whistle scrums, usually to stick up for your goalie or just to intimidate the other team. Boston did this to perfection during their 2 great years, if you watch their playoff games usually all 5 guys are initiating something after the whistle. This is why they never felt out of a game or a series, they knew they had each others backs.

Rarely will you see any of our guys show some guff after the whistle (besides Dorsett). Prust seems to just engage for show, staged fights do not really spark your team and he doesn't really hit hard at all. I think he was the wrong kind of tough/grit guy to bring in. 

 

I am hoping this offseason we can bring in some players to compliment the Sedins gracefull skill game with some physical, nasty in your face style of hockey. At least win or lose, you know the guys are giving their all and displaying leadership that makes you proud. Perhaps this may be the most crucial offseason in our history, we have so much flexibility to reshape our roster. 

All I know is that we got the right guy to bring us a team that will show true grit and character....In Linden we trust

[Gyllenhaal]

I think the points you made have more to do with lack of teamwork and competitiveness.

[BanTSN]

2 minutes ago, Gyllenhaal said:

I think the points you made have more to do with lack of teamwork and competitiveness.

I turned around.  You're not behind me, Gyllenhaal.  Whew.  That would have totally creeped me out.  Gyllenhaal is one creepy dude.

Oh, and you're correct.

[Gyllenhaal]

12 minutes ago, BanTSN said:

I turned around.  You're not behind me, Gyllenhaal.  Whew.  That would have totally creeped me out.  Gyllenhaal is one creepy dude.

Oh, and you're correct.

Turn around all you want, I'm always behind you

[SaintPatrick33]

11 minutes ago, Gyllenhaal said:

I think the points you made have more to do with lack of teamwork and competitiveness.

Teamwork and competitiveness are what is produced with successful leadership?

Toews is probably the best example of what I would like to see with the Canucks in terms of leadership. When his team is down, especially in the playoffs, you see him on the bench and he either gets vocal or gets super intense (as his nickname Captain Serious attests to). The team responds as a result, and you can see they play without fear. 

Remember when we beat Chicago in 2011, we had a 3-0 lead and Toews basically said "I cant believe we are losing to these guys" and then they almost came back and beat us. 

Another example is for the olympics, most assumed Crosby would be the Captain, but Sidney instead asked Toews first. This is the kind of respect leadership wise Toews garners around the league. Used to hate the guy, but now I cant do nothing but respect his game. 

 

[Canucks Prophet]

I think you're absolutely right.

Henrik the player is amazing, one of the greatest Canucks in history. But I just could never see him as a true leader. He doesn't have the same qualities as a Toews, or a Ladd, or a Linden. I don't know how to describe those qualities, but I think you described it pretty well.

I would love it if our next captain is a Canadian. 

[butters]

Bunch of keyboard warriors pretending they know anything about leadership in a sport they have never played at a high level in a locker room they have never been in.

[SaintPatrick33]

7 minutes ago, butters said:

Bunch of keyboard warriors pretending they know anything about leadership in a sport they have never played at a high level in a locker room they have never been in.

Not so much we know anything about leadership, more so we want to visualize it on the ice as fans of the sport. You can tell just by watching a game which teams have it and which teams dont. 

[nom_de_plume]

6 minutes ago, butters said:

Bunch of keyboard warriors pretending they know anything about leadership in a sport they have never played at a high level in a locker room they have never been in.

What's your opinion on the posters got to do with anything?  This thread is a valid one in the face of a disheveled team. Where is the leadership and what qualities make a good leader?  These are great questions and there are some solid names thrown out as examples.  Why not add something to the topic and quit judging those that are trying?  A leader takes responsibility and supports his/her team in being successful.  Your comment does neither and makes assumptions of a collective.  This leads me to believe that you haven't any knowledge of leadership in a sport at a high level or any level at all.  If so, why not grace us with your knowledge and insight as a true leader would.

[Plaguez]

45 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

Teamwork and competitiveness are what is produced with successful leadership?

Toews is probably the best example of what I would like to see with the Canucks in terms of leadership. When his team is down, especially in the playoffs, you see him on the bench and he either gets vocal or gets super intense (as his nickname Captain Serious attests to). The team responds as a result, and you can see they play without fear. 

Remember when we beat Chicago in 2011, we had a 3-0 lead and Toews basically said "I cant believe we are losing to these guys" and then they almost came back and beat us. 

Another example is for the olympics, most assumed Crosby would be the Captain, but Sidney instead asked Toews first. This is the kind of respect leadership wise Toews garners around the league. Used to hate the guy, but now I cant do nothing but respect his game. 

 

Easy to call Toews a leader when he is surround by the all-star Hawks.  When has he ever had to lead a team as terrible as this one?  Kane, Hossa, Seabrook, Keith, et al, are easy to "lead".  Dorsett, Prust, Cracknell, Burrows, Baertschi, McCann, Kenins, Vrbata, Hansen, Higgins, Biega, Bartkowski, Sbisa, Weber, Hamhuis, Pedan, not a single one of these guys is better than Toews supporting cast.  That means the Sedins are doing it alone.  Hell, Linden had a better supporting cast in Courtnall, Bure, Ronning, Adams, Gelinas, Craven, McLean, Lumme, Slegr, Babych, Brown.

Henrik and Daniel are great leaders and any real hockey player would follow them to hell and back.  They did in 2011.

[DownUndaCanuck]

I think it's hard to compare different types of leadership, but the Sedins are two of the best leaders this league has seen in a while. Just because they don't play an emotional heart-on-their-sleeve type game, have blood dripping down their face and throw big hits or fight doesn't mean they're not better leaders than say Linden during the Cup run.

I think you judge a leader by how clutch they are, how willing they are to lift their team and how they get their players fired up, but also how they make the rest of the team better. The Sedins are probably the best at that the Canucks have ever seen, partly because of the nature of their game. They're passers first and every single player on the ice is instantly better because of them, but when the games get tough they've shown they can score huge clutch goals. This entire season is just another example - an absolutely TERRIBLE team that is half AHLers and pylons, yet the Sedins are carrying them all on their backs at 35 years old, scoring clutch goals and providing all the offence.

That's leadership. On a team that is going nowhere but down, the twins are still carrying everyone on their backs. They never give up, lift their game when it matters most and are scoring key goals. That NYR game was probably the best example.

If we were to go on a Cup run, I'd much rather Henrik Sedin in his prime than Linden as a captain.

 

Of course, compared to some of the other leaders in the NHL, the Sedins are up there but guys like Toews are just at another level. Toews is a born winner, he's won at every level and has scored more clutch goals than most captains in the league combined. The way he elevates his play in the final key moments is something not many players can do. That's why he's a perennial Cup winner. Guys like Crosby and Ovechkin are great but they're not as clutch as Toews and that's what defines a truly good leader.

[Kevin Biestra]

The Sedins are very solid team leaders.  They lead the team in the same way that players like Lidstrom led their team.

Are they the caliber of leader of Trevor Linden?  Not quite, but Linden was a very special breed in that regard, and most Cup winning teams have a captain that isn't a Linden level of pressure player and intangibles.

Not being Trevor Linden doesn't mean you can't be among the best captains in the league.

I don't find the Sedins to be lacking.  It is the rest of the team that is to provide the pushback and grit to complement them.

They have made mistakes at times, like allowing Marchand to speedbag their faces and picking up sticks for their opponents...class is a good thing, but everything is best in moderation.  At extreme doses, water can be toxic, and the same goes for class and politeness on the ice...

But the Sedins aren't creating a poor culture by playing with skill and sportsmanship.  The team just needs one or more non-cancerous Kesler types to round out the personality profile of the team.  Better to have Sedins setting the general tone than players like Lucico or Marchand, who provide a good dose of necessary physicality.  Players like Lucic and Marchand are there to hammer and harass people, not to hold the steering wheel for the team.

I agree with you that something is missing from the team.  But I think it's missing from the "secondary leadership" and the foot soldiers, not so much from the captain(s).

[Westcoasting]

31 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

31 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

 

Quote

If we were to go on a Cup run, I'd much rather Henrik Sedin in his prime than Linden as a captain.

This is because you were born in 1992 and never seen Linden play. You would be singing a different tune otherwise.

[R3aL]

Beg. of Season

Burrows to Virtanen:

"I need to know I can count on you"

Now

Team to Burrows:

"Can we count on you? When the hell you gonna put the puck in the damn net!?"

[Positive Canuck]

I want our next Captain to be a stud that doesn't mind yelling at a guy thats mailing it in.

[cabinessence]

3 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

To me this is the most iconic picture of the Vancouver Canucks. This picture represents what I love about hockey.  When I see Linden with blood stains on his jersey, looking exhausted after a battle, and the embrace he gives his fellow teammate McClean tells me that no matter what I will follow this guy into battle. Linden will always be hockey royalty to me because he has so many of these moments. Remember that viscous cross-check he took in Game 6 from Messier? And still played and scored 2 goals in game 7? That is true hockey leadership, and win or lose, you just appreciate the effort and desire to sacrifice. \

Flash forward to this years team, and we realize what we have been missing for quite some time. This is no disrespect to Hank, who is a true franchise Captain and displays the demeanor and class of a Jean Beliveau. However, as Benning has stated, we seem to lack the pushback and ability to handle physical, intense play. Dorsett is the only guy who actually shows something and gets vocal with the other team, and I expected the other veterans to step up and at least show they care. Maybe we need assistant captains who will get vocal and keep the teams head in the game. 

A few moments this season made me cringe because it appears this team is too easy to play against:

1. McCann getting hit by Getzlaf, and absolutely ZERO response. Safe working environment? I wonder how McCann felt when none of the veterans even said anything to Getzlaf?

2. In our losses, particularly Boston and Minnesota, once the game was out of hand there was no attempt at moral victories. Usually you either fight, throw a few hits, try to show intensity because that's what competition is all about. In a game that is out of hand, I will still watch to see how a team responds, and this year it is sickening to see how deflated we look on the bench. 

3. Miller looking at Willie after the fourth goal vs Wild. IDK if they are trying to trade him or what, but Miller has not been handled well this year. Highly touted Markstrom should have been playing more to keep Miller fresh, especially with the amount of scoring chances per game we give up. Ruining your starters confidence will not really help!

4. Lack of after-whistle scrums. A sign of a team with solid chemistry is how many guys get involved in post whistle scrums, usually to stick up for your goalie or just to intimidate the other team. Boston did this to perfection during their 2 great years, if you watch their playoff games usually all 5 guys are initiating something after the whistle. This is why they never felt out of a game or a series, they knew they had each others backs.

Rarely will you see any of our guys show some guff after the whistle (besides Dorsett). Prust seems to just engage for show, staged fights do not really spark your team and he doesn't really hit hard at all. I think he was the wrong kind of tough/grit guy to bring in. 

 

I am hoping this offseason we can bring in some players to compliment the Sedins gracefull skill game with some physical, nasty in your face style of hockey. At least win or lose, you know the guys are giving their all and displaying leadership that makes you proud. Perhaps this may be the most crucial offseason in our history, we have so much flexibility to reshape our roster. 

All I know is that we got the right guy to bring us a team that will show true grit and character....In Linden we trust

This picture is the result of the Rangers captain cheapshottiing Linden, getting away with is scot free, then going on to win the cup. This franchise also celebrates surrender via the Nielson statute (though I am a huge fan of Nielson). Can you imagine the Russian Red Army celebrating the time they left the ice at the Spectrum? A big problem with the Canucks organization is they equate failure with tradition. A big CUE BASS SOLO!!

[R3aL]

14 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

The Sedins are very solid team leaders.  They lead the team in the same way that players like Lidstrom led their team.

Are they the caliber of leader of Trevor Linden?  Not quite, but Linden was a very special breed in that regard, and most Cup winning teams have a captain that isn't a Linden level of pressure player and intangibles.

Not being Trevor Linden doesn't mean you can't be among the best captains in the league.

I don't find the Sedins to be lacking.  It is the rest of the team that is to provide the pushback and grit to complement them.

They have made mistakes at times, like allowing Marchand to speedbag their faces and picking up sticks for their opponents...class is a good thing, but everything is best in moderation.  At extreme doses, water can be toxic, and the same goes for class and politeness on the ice...

But the Sedins aren't creating a poor culture by playing with skill and sportsmanship.  The team just needs one or more non-cancerous Kesler types to round out the personality profile of the team.  Better to have Sedins setting the general tone than players like Lucico or Marchand, who provide a good dose of necessary physicality.  Players like Lucic and Marchand are there to hammer and harass people, not to hold the steering wheel for the team.

I agree with you that something is missing from the team.  But I think it's missing from the "secondary leadership" and the foot soldiers, not so much from the captain(s).

I agree with this.

 

Sedins are fantastic leaders. The team def needs effective secondary leadership as it needs secondary scoring.

 

Before the Kesler mess, he was a strong pillar, with Luongo, Bieska, Burrows, Hamuis, Malhotra, etc. The team had lots of leaders.

We are in a transitionary period here and its getting messy.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 hour ago, Canucks Prophet said:

I think you're absolutely right.

Henrik the player is amazing, one of the greatest Canucks in history. But I just could never see him as a true leader. He doesn't have the same qualities as a Toews, or a Ladd, or a Linden. I don't know how to describe those qualities, but I think you described it pretty well.

I would love it if our next captain is a Canadian. 

Toews and Linden are a special breed.  Perhaps the two best pressure players I have ever seen in the NHL.

The same way Lemieux and Gretzky were true generational talents at playing hockey, Toews and Linden are generational in their ability to take what they have and maximize it when it is most needed.

It's just an impossible standard to hold Henrik or anyone else to.  Just like I can't get mad at Henrik for not scoring 215 points in a season, I can't get mad at him for not becoming something superhuman whenever a game 7 rolls around.

[R3aL]

2 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said:

 

To me this is the most iconic picture of the Vancouver Canucks. This picture represents what I love about hockey.  When I see Linden with blood stains on his jersey, looking exhausted after a battle, and the embrace he gives his fellow teammate McClean tells me that no matter what I will follow this guy into battle. Linden will always be hockey royalty to me because he has so many of these moments. Remember that viscous cross-check he took in Game 6 from Messier? And still played and scored 2 goals in game 7? That is true hockey leadership, and win or lose, you just appreciate the effort and desire to sacrifice. \

Flash forward to this years team, and we realize what we have been missing for quite some time. This is no disrespect to Hank, who is a true franchise Captain and displays the demeanor and class of a Jean Beliveau. However, as Benning has stated, we seem to lack the pushback and ability to handle physical, intense play. Dorsett is the only guy who actually shows something and gets vocal with the other team, and I expected the other veterans to step up and at least show they care. Maybe we need assistant captains who will get vocal and keep the teams head in the game. 

A few moments this season made me cringe because it appears this team is too easy to play against:

1. McCann getting hit by Getzlaf, and absolutely ZERO response. Safe working environment? I wonder how McCann felt when none of the veterans even said anything to Getzlaf?

2. In our losses, particularly Boston and Minnesota, once the game was out of hand there was no attempt at moral victories. Usually you either fight, throw a few hits, try to show intensity because that's what competition is all about. In a game that is out of hand, I will still watch to see how a team responds, and this year it is sickening to see how deflated we look on the bench. 

3. Miller looking at Willie after the fourth goal vs Wild. IDK if they are trying to trade him or what, but Miller has not been handled well this year. Highly touted Markstrom should have been playing more to keep Miller fresh, especially with the amount of scoring chances per game we give up. Ruining your starters confidence will not really help!

4. Lack of after-whistle scrums. A sign of a team with solid chemistry is how many guys get involved in post whistle scrums, usually to stick up for your goalie or just to intimidate the other team. Boston did this to perfection during their 2 great years, if you watch their playoff games usually all 5 guys are initiating something after the whistle. This is why they never felt out of a game or a series, they knew they had each others backs.

Rarely will you see any of our guys show some guff after the whistle (besides Dorsett). Prust seems to just engage for show, staged fights do not really spark your team and he doesn't really hit hard at all. I think he was the wrong kind of tough/grit guy to bring in. 

 

I am hoping this offseason we can bring in some players to compliment the Sedins gracefull skill game with some physical, nasty in your face style of hockey. At least win or lose, you know the guys are giving their all and displaying leadership that makes you proud. Perhaps this may be the most crucial offseason in our history, we have so much flexibility to reshape our roster. 

All I know is that we got the right guy to bring us a team that will show true grit and character....In Linden we trust

When the league enables BS against nux in finals.. like 94 MEssier on Linden of course much worse than this but still just another ridiculous example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBVdz6UO3U

[luckylager]

The most important characteristic for a leader is his (or her) ability to LEAD BY EXAMPLE. 

A guy like Hank can't possibly effectively lead a player to play tough, or mean, or be blood thirsty, or skate his ass off in 5th gear panic mode.

Though I love them, the twins have always lacked a do or die mentality and hence, cannot lead a team to have that kind of desperation.

They lose too well, they take abuse too well, they are far too composed and able to remain calm to LEAD the team in a passionate, unforgiving, opposition must die way. 

Again, love those two. However, we can't expect the team to play a style so opposite that of our leaders.