Bill aiming to ban child marriages in Pakistan shot down as ‘anti-Islamic’ and ‘blasphemous’

[jdatb]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down/

Quote

“Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah,” he had said while backing his arguments with relevant laws and a few references from the Holy Quran and Hadith.

So is child marriage an integral part of Islam?

[inane]

Religions be silly.

[Warhippy]

12 minutes ago, jdatb said:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down/

So is child marriage an integral part of Islam?

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

[thejazz97]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

I read when this article first came out that there are a couple US states that allow marriage to 12- and 13-year olds. And not schoolyard type marriages, either.

[RonMexico]

10 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

Don't forget Utah.

 

[Mustapha]

21 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

Alberta is a changed place these days, the NDP is in charge. Must be bizarro world.

[Warhippy]

38 minutes ago, thejazz97 said:

I read when this article first came out that there are a couple US states that allow marriage to 12- and 13-year olds. And not schoolyard type marriages, either.

It's a strange world we live in no doubt

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

But how many kids are being married off at age 12-13 in the US?  Probably just a handful of deranged families with some weird pseudo-cultural/religious reasons. 

I bet in Pakistan, kids being married are probably common everyday occurrences. 

[nuckin_futz]

1 hour ago, jdatb said:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down/

So is child marriage an integral part of Islam?

Legal Minimum Age for Marriage with Parental Consent:

California - no age limit

Delaware - no age limit

Massachusetts - 14 male, 12 female

Mississippi - no age limit

New Hampshire - 14 male, 13 female

https://globaljusticeinitiative.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/united-states-age-of-consent-table11.pdf

 

OP, is child marriage an essential part of Christianity?

 

"When you point your finger 'cause your plan fell through
You got three more fingers pointing back at you"

"Solid Rock" - Dire Straits

[nuckin_futz]

14 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

But how many kids are being married off at age 12-13 in the US?  Probably just a handful of deranged families with some weird pseudo-cultural/religious reasons. 

I bet in Pakistan, kids being married are probably common everyday occurrences. 

This is a rather strange way of justifying the difference in the two places. One child marriage is too many in either place.

[Shift-4]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

Alberta?

18 is the age without parental consent

16 with parental consent

[higgyfan]

That's disgusting.  Plain and simple.  Claw your way outta the dark ages, idiots.

[thejazz97]

19 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

This is a rather strange way of justifying the difference in the two places. One child marriage is too many in either place.

I get 15 or so. That's the prime baby-making age for girls. It doesn't make it any more right or wrong, but it's understandable.

Anything less than that is just not cool.

[Kragar]

27 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Legal Minimum Age for Marriage with Parental Consent:

California - no age limit

Delaware - no age limit

Massachusetts - 14 male, 12 female

Mississippi - no age limit

New Hampshire - 14 male, 13 female

https://globaljusticeinitiative.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/united-states-age-of-consent-table11.pdf

 

OP, is child marriage an essential part of Christianity?

 

"When you point your finger 'cause your plan fell through
You got three more fingers pointing back at you"

"Solid Rock" - Dire Straits

Is the Christian Church claiming religious persecution in any efforts to get these limits changed?  Does the Bible require society to allow marriages to those so young?

FWIW, Wikipedia has some different numbers than what you listed: Delaware 17 male, 16 female; Mississippi 17 male, 15 female (legal options for waiving); California requires a judge and parents to allow children to marry.

While Wikipedia is not always the more accurate source, perhaps your source is outdated in parts.  The link shows a date of 2011/12, and the article linked for California in Wikipedia is dated 2014, so maybe something has changed.

Regardless, if the parents consent, and the government consents (they make the laws), is there a problem?  I personally wouldn't support it, but what is the problem?

22 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

This is a rather strange way of justifying the difference in the two places. One child marriage is too many in either place.

Numbers are important.  If it is a rare occurrence in one place, you might just be dealing with the occasional crackpot.  If it's commonplace, it could mean there is a bigger societal problem at hand. 

[Kragar]

2 hours ago, jdatb said:

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1027742/settled-matter-bill-aiming-to-ban-child-marriages-shot-down/

So is child marriage an integral part of Islam?

Quote

“Parliament cannot create legislation that is against the teachings of the Holy Quran or Sunnah,” he had said while backing his arguments with relevant laws and a few references from the Holy Quran and Hadith.

If this is true, doesn't that make many Canadian/American marriage laws illegal,since they would infringe upon some people's religious beliefs?  That wouldn't be very multicultural of us.

[RonMexico]

Don't you guys watch Game of Thrones? Once a girl bleeds, giddy-up! Put a baby in her!

[nuckin_futz]

34 minutes ago, Kragar said:

Is the Christian Church claiming religious persecution in any efforts to get these limits changed?  Does the Bible require society to allow marriages to those so young?

FWIW, Wikipedia has some different numbers than what you listed: Delaware 17 male, 16 female; Mississippi 17 male, 15 female (legal options for waiving); California requires a judge and parents to allow children to marry.

While Wikipedia is not always the more accurate source, perhaps your source is outdated in parts.  The link shows a date of 2011/12, and the article linked for California in Wikipedia is dated 2014, so maybe something has changed.

Regardless, if the parents consent, and the government consents (they make the laws), is there a problem?  I personally wouldn't support it, but what is the problem?

Numbers are important.  If it is a rare occurrence in one place, you might just be dealing with the occasional crackpot.  If it's commonplace, it could mean there is a bigger societal problem at hand. 

Thanks for that. I'll see if I can find a more accurate source.

By the same token. If the Pakistani parents consent and the Pakistani lawmakers consent is there a problem? Of course there is, there's children being married off. The laws in both places (and any other that supports this) should be changed. At least in Pakistan some lawmakers can say they tried. Maybe law makers in Massachusetts should try to catch up. 

The problem if you have parental consent and government consent is that you probably do not have the children's consent. Even if you do, what 12 year old can properly consent to a life long arrangement?  It's an arranged marriage and it's not the bride and groom arranging it. It's essentially a business deal.

I disagree about numbers being important. If one is to point fingers and say look at those backwards people. Then one should lobby local governments to change their own archaic laws. That way you won't even have one case of an occasional crackpot. You know the old "people who live in glass houses" saying.

[YEGCanuck]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

As much as it is in forward thinking states such as Alabama, Louisiana and...Alberta

As difficult as may be to comprehend, you can find hillbillies in every province, not just Alberta.

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, nuckin_futz said:

This is a rather strange way of justifying the difference in the two places. One child marriage is too many in either place.

I'm not saying it's right.... just pointing out that it's happening more frequently elsewhere in the world. 

[Kragar]

7 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

Thanks for that. I'll see if I can find a more accurate source.

By the same token. If the Pakistani parents consent and the Pakistani lawmakers consent is there a problem? Of course there is, there's children being married off. The laws in both places (and any other that supports this) should be changed. At least in Pakistan some lawmakers can say they tried. Maybe law makers in Massachusetts should try to catch up. 

The problem if you have parental consent and government consent is that you probably do not have the children's consent. Even if you do, what 12 year old can properly consent to a life long arrangement?  It's an arranged marriage and it's not the bride and groom arranging it. It's essentially a business deal.

I disagree about numbers being important. If one is to point fingers and say look at those backwards people. Then one should lobby local governments to change their own archaic laws. That way you won't even have one case of an occasional crackpot. You know the old "people who live in glass houses" saying.

No worries on a new source.  Your point is clear, and valid.  Some states do things more strangely than others, and in this instance, there are some states that don'w align with our perspective on marriage involving children.

I was going to bring up the consent concern you raise in your 3rd paragraph, but originally decided against it.  IMO, it's more likely to have parental coercion involved in MENA and Asia than it is here, so the point the OP is trying to make holds even more water.  Not to say there haven't been shotgun weddings over here, but I think you get my drift.

I tried a little to find out how many marriages here in California were to those normally considered underage, but couldn't come up with anything.  But if the people here are by circumstance following the laws in most other states, where the age is 16, is it worth the expense in changing said archaic law?  I get what you are saying... I just see it more as nitpicking, I guess.