Rollie Melanson not returning

[wallstreetamigo]

5 hours ago, ButcherG said:

What is idiotic, is surrounding young talent with coaches and leaders, who have never been able to win when it matters.

 

Cloutier was a horror show in Van, and having him around our young goalies is not what I would perceive as good time investment.

 

People have been waiting for Cloutier to succeed at anything his whole lifetime, and the only credit he could be given is working with Markstrom for a year, and getting some success out of him.

 

I have yet to hear one word from Markstrom suggesting that Cloutier was the reason he has done so well this year.

Riiiight.......because making it to the NHL and being a starting goalie is so easy that it can't possibly be considered a success.

[cripplereh]

To bad if he leaves he has helped so much,but a new coach isn't always bad!

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 2016-03-21 at 2:10 PM, PRIMO88 said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but i did a quick search and found nothing. Bad news. Was hoping Demko could work with him

 

http://canucksarmy.com/2016/3/19/woo...couver-canucks

 

I have yet to see anyone explain why this guy was hired only part time if he was able to turn water into wine goalie wise.

 

What does Rollie do for a real job ? Sell insurance ?

[MaxVerstappen33]

On 2016-03-21 at 2:17 PM, Ghostsof1915 said:

My concern is it sounds like that Melanson hasn't worked much with Miller, and Markstrom isn't really a fan. It seems certain players love him (Lack), and others like Luongo doesn't seem to work with him. 

 

The Vancouver Scuttlebutt (Province) says that the Canucks are trying to get Bill Ranford from LA. But he has another year on his contract. 

I heard Miller told him to stick it. Why not ? Who is a part time employee to tell a professional making 6 million how to play ?

[chickenman92]

On March 22, 2016 at 9:52 PM, homersexual said:

Does this mean Linden can finally give his buddy Kirk McLean a coaching job? Maybe Jyrki Lumme can be a defensemen coach down the road.

 

I did hear both Alex Auld and Bill Ranford as potential replacements.

They'd never hire Auld, he's an Eddie Lack friend...Benning and Linden, aren't pro-Lack

[homersexual]

54 minutes ago, chickenman92 said:

They'd never hire Auld, he's an Eddie Lack friend...Benning and Linden, aren't pro-Lack

Markstrom is a Eddie Lack friend too.

[City-in-state-of-emergency]

It seems like Cloutier always comes in to rescue when this team is in peril just like he did in 2000 - 2001 season when we had Backup Bob, Potvin and the fans back then where going bat $&!# crazy over Potvin being the starter then shipped out then we lose Backup Bob to free agent then boom Cloutier is all like chill guys I got this. 

[MaxVerstappen33]

Not sure if there is an Alex Auld thread. But.

 

Has Alex Auld ever come clean on the Ed Belfor incident in 2006 ?

 

This is the offical story

 

“During a road trip to Long Island in October 2006, Belfour and Auld were "horsing" around in one of the hotel rooms.

Belfour spilled some water on the floor, and Auld slipped, hit his head and had to be taken to a hospital.

That's the official version of the story. The Panthers otherwise dropped a cone of silence over the incident and not another word leaked, though there were many rumours.

"They have marble floors there and they're slippery," Belfour said. "We were just horsing around with each other. I dropped my bottle of water and we all slipped. Alex hit his head when we fell down. That's the truth of the matter. It was a pure accident. There was no alcohol involved whatsoever."

The good soldier, Auld dummied up.

"I'm not going to discuss anything," he said. "We're going to handle this internally. Everything is fine. I've been out on the ice, so it's not a big deal. There's nothing that happened that's of anyone's concern."

- Ottawa Citizen (Allen Panzeri)

***
"According to two eyewitnesses at the Garden City Hotel in Long Island, where the Panthers were staying, the incident happened after Belfour became disruptive in a nightclub connected to the hotel, causing a commotion when some teammates, including Auld, tried to get him to leave and go to his room.

One witness at the Posh Ultra Lounge said Belfour, 41, was flailing and fighting off his teammates, who were trying to pull him away while apologizing to the club's employees about Belfour.

Belfour called Auld's fall "a pure accident."

[Dazzle]

On 2016/3/23 at 1:10 PM, ButcherG said:

What is idiotic, is surrounding young talent with coaches and leaders, who have never been able to win when it matters.

 

Cloutier was a horror show in Van, and having him around our young goalies is not what I would perceive as good time investment.

 

People have been waiting for Cloutier to succeed at anything his whole lifetime, and the only credit he could be given is working with Markstrom for a year, and getting some success out of him.

 

I have yet to hear one word from Markstrom suggesting that Cloutier was the reason he has done so well this year.

Uh no. People on CDC have been bashing Cloutier. The people who defended him were also bashed.

 

Cloutier is a Canucks goaltending consultant - fact.

Demko has been working with Cloutier - fact. He was seen giving him tips before this season ON VIDEO.

Choosing what you want to believe is also a fact. How you draw that conclusion doesn't make it a fact. This is where you are flat out wrong.

[ButcherG]

2 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Uh no. People on CDC have been bashing Cloutier. The people who defended him were also bashed.

 

Cloutier is a Canucks goaltending consultant - fact.

Demko has been working with Cloutier - fact. He was seen giving him tips before this season ON VIDEO.

Choosing what you want to believe is also a fact. How you draw that conclusion doesn't make it a fact. This is where you are flat out wrong.

I don't believe Cloutier is good enough to be our goaltending coach. This is my view, right or wrong, I believe I am right. Just as you believe you are right about something. Hence why its a discussion board.

 

You have proven nothing to me to make me change my view, other than you like telling me I am wrong. lol

[Dazzle]

5 hours ago, ButcherG said:

I don't believe Cloutier is good enough to be our goaltending coach. This is my view, right or wrong, I believe I am right. Just as you believe you are right about something. Hence why its a discussion board.

 

You have proven nothing to me to make me change my view, other than you like telling me I am wrong. lol

So what exact standard or methodology are you using to know if someone will be (or is) a 'good' goaltending coach?

 

You are welcome to believe what you want, but that does not mean you won't be challenged.

 

Vigneault was a bad (poor stats) defenceman who has coached two teams in the Finals. I hated how he played favorites, but there's no denying that he was a pretty good coach. He has his faults - some of which led to us getting kicked out of the playoffs (or not making it at all).

Furthermore, there are other coaches with shortened (or have questionable NHL stats) that have excelled at teaching.

 

Gretzky, on the other hand, has a highly accomplished NHL career with TERRIBLE NHL coaching years. The guy also was responsible for 1998 Nagano (as management). The guy never touched coaching again - nor should he. He drove an expansion team with Doan at the helm almost to the ground.

 

In summary, someone excelling at the NHL does not necessarily co-relate to how good or bad he is at teaching. There is no such thing as someone not being 'good enough' to teach/coach. It's one of those things where you have to try it out and see if you're good at it.

 

As for proof, The Hockey News gives some credit to Dan Cloutier (along with Melanson) as a goalie coach. Article is from September 2015.

 

http://www.thehockeynews.com/blog/jacob-markstrom-is-finally-ready-for-prime-time-for-real-this-time-really/

 

 

Quote

 

But he needed to get to another level. He worked hard this past season on tracking the puck and closing the open space between the moving disc, the net and the shooter’s eyes. Goalie coaches Rollie Melanson and Dan Cloutier were key to Markstrom’s resurgence.

“They’re unbelievable,” Markstrom said. “I try to use my size (6-foot-6), cover as much net as you can. But you open bigger holes when you move. Anticipation and tracking the puck is the huge thing.” -

If Melanson leaves, I wonder if Cloutier can fill the void. He's already been working with Demko, who's having an even better season than last year.

 

Maybe, just maybe, Cloutier can turn into a good goalie coach.

[ButcherG]

Its a lot of maybe when you look at Cloutier turning into a good coach. Same with Smyl, same with Vigneault for that matter. None of these guys have ever won a cup.

 

Yes all of them are great guys, but they have never won. This is the inherent problem I see.

 

If you want to create a winner, go out and get winners. They know what it takes to win.

 

Yes the Gretzky experiment failed in Arizona. He never had the pieces to win anything. Vigneault did in Van and NY, and he will never win. Who is the better coach ultimately? Vigneault because he has won more hockey games, but big woop no cup. At least Gretzky has cups from his playing days.

 

My point is go out and get people who have a pedigree for winning cups. From your scouts, to your coaches to your gm. They should all know what it takes to win. Especially when your franchise has never won in its history.

 

Cloutier could become the greatest goalie coach in history. I just wouldn't bet the farm on it, or anything for that matter.

 

 

 

 

[Wilbur]

2 minutes ago, ButcherG said:

Its a lot of maybe when you look at Cloutier turning into a good coach. Same with Smyl, same with Vigneault for that matter. None of these guys have ever won a cup.

 

Yes all of them are great guys, but they have never won. This is the inherent problem I see.

 

If you want to create a winner, go out and get winners. They know what it takes to win.

 

Yes the Gretzky experiment failed in Arizona. He never had the pieces to win anything. Vigneault did in Van and NY, and he will never win. Who is the better coach ultimately? Vigneault because he has won more hockey games, but big woop no cup. At least Gretzky has cups from his playing days.

 

My point is go out and get people who have a pedigree for winning cups. From your scouts, to your coaches to your gm. They should all know what it takes to win. Especially when your franchise has never won in its history.

 

Cloutier could become the greatest goalie coach in history. I just wouldn't bet the farm on it, or anything for that matter.

 

 

 

 

The Canucks tried that about 20 years ago.  They brought in Messier then Keenan.  That went well 

 

At some point you've got to bring in good people and let them grow with you.  All cup winners won their first cup at some point, they weren't born with the honor.  Plus, if you spend all of your time following in other teams footsteps, you will always be a step behind.

[ButcherG]

15 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

The Canucks tried that about 20 years ago.  They brought in Messier then Keenan.  That went well 

 

At some point you've got to bring in good people and let them grow with you.  All cup winners won their first cup at some point, they weren't born with the honor.  Plus, if you spend all of your time following in other teams footsteps, you will always be a step behind.

Well 46 years of losing is going to create several views on what works and does not. So far nothing has yet.

 

Messier was just a ticket seller at that point in his career. Keenan was and is still a good coach in Russia. Mad Mike needed his Marius mules to just eek out one cup win, and there was nothing like that in Van. Back then you could buy a cup, and our owners couldn't pay for one.

 

The cap system has changed the game, so guys like Keenan are done. Somehow Bowman is still winning cups from Montreal, Pittsburgh, Detroit, to Chicago. could look at that instead as an example of winning.

[MaxVerstappen33]

10 hours ago, ButcherG said:

I don't believe Cloutier is good enough to be our goaltending coach. This is my view, right or wrong, I believe I am right. Just as you believe you are right about something. Hence why its a discussion board.

 

You have proven nothing to me to make me change my view, other than you like telling me I am wrong. lol

It depends what the job description is. If the coaches job is to turn the goalie into whatever the coach thinks is best then I don't want anyone doing the job. Not even Rollie. Who's Rollie to say how a guy like Loungo or Miller should play ? Or even the young guys ?

 

But if the job is just to point out what the latest techniques and trends are in the goalie industry then I think Clouts could do that.

 

And if Rollie was so great, why was he only  a part time employee ?

[MaxVerstappen33]

25 minutes ago, ButcherG said:

Its a lot of maybe when you look at Cloutier turning into a good coach. Same with Smyl, same with Vigneault for that matter. None of these guys have ever won a cup.

 

Yes all of them are great guys, but they have never won. This is the inherent problem I see.

 

If you want to create a winner, go out and get winners. They know what it takes to win.

 

Yes the Gretzky experiment failed in Arizona. He never had the pieces to win anything. Vigneault did in Van and NY, and he will never win. Who is the better coach ultimately? Vigneault because he has won more hockey games, but big woop no cup. At least Gretzky has cups from his playing days.

 

My point is go out and get people who have a pedigree for winning cups. From your scouts, to your coaches to your gm. They should all know what it takes to win. Especially when your franchise has never won in its history.

 

Cloutier could become the greatest goalie coach in history. I just wouldn't bet the farm on it, or anything for that matter.

 

 

 

 

This is crap. Gretzky was one of the worst coaches in pro sports. Dave Tippet could coach circles around him.

 

Anyone can go on a yeeh haw playoff run. Even Craig Mactavish and Kevin Lowe. But these yahoo's could never win back to back Presidents trophies.

 

The playoffs are all about luck and momentum. Nothing more or less.

 

Are you a Benning supporter ? because thats why we have him. He has a ring. But he was a Dan Hamhuis hip check away from not having a ring. Then Gillis would be the man. And maybe Gilman would be the GM of the Bruins

[ButcherG]

2 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

It depends what the job description is. If the coaches job is to turn the goalie into whatever the coach thinks is best then I don't want anyone doing the job. Not even Rollie. Who's Rollie to say how a guy like Loungo or Miller should play ? Or even the young guys ?

 

But if the job is just to point out what the latest techniques and trends are in the goalie industry then I think Clouts could do that.

 

And if Rollie was so great, why was he only  a part time employee ?

I am not a fan of Melanson either.

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26152

 

This is the guy I would like to see coaching our goalies.

[ButcherG]

16 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

This is crap. Gretzky was one of the worst coaches in pro sports. Dave Tippet could coach circles around him.

 

Anyone can go on a yeeh haw playoff run. Even Craig Mactavish and Kevin Lowe. But these yahoo's could never win back to back Presidents trophies.

 

The playoffs are all about luck and momentum. Nothing more or less.

The playoffs are about building a solid team through the draft and trades. Creating a core that is around the same age with chemistry. Having players who are responsible defensively and can play through pain. Having a great coach with a system to beat the other team is a must.

 

Where did I say Gretzky was a good coach? He was the best player, but he sucked at coaching. I think you missed my point. Find people who are good at their jobs.

 

Winning a cup is just luck and momentum? That is crap.

 

 

[MaxVerstappen33]

4 hours ago, ButcherG said:

The playoffs are about building a solid team through the draft and trades. Creating a core that is around the same age with chemistry. Having players who are responsible defensively and can play through pain. Having a great coach with a system to beat the other team is a must.

 

Where did I say Gretzky was a good coach? He was the best player, but he sucked at coaching. I think you missed my point. Find people who are good at their jobs.

 

Winning a cup is just luck and momentum? That is crap.

 

 

Quote

The playoffs are about building a solid team through the draft and trades. Creating a core that is around the same age with chemistry. Having players who are responsible defensively and can play through pain. Having a great coach with a system to beat the other team is a must.

No its not. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Do you remember the 2006 season ? Detroit had 126 points. Easily the best hockey team in the world that year. But guess what... The Oilers , who had no goal tending all year, over paid to get Dwayne Roloson. Who didn't play very good but good enough to sneak into the playoffs and they weren't even in control of their own destiny. In fact I think the Canucks had to crash and burn (they did) in order for the Oilers to get in.

 

Now tell me with a straight face that the Edmonton Oilers were a better team then the Detroit Red wings that year. Because according to the playoffs, they were.

 

The 2004 Flames were 7th seed tweeners going into the playoffs. They were in and out of the playoffs all year. But tell me with a straight face that the 04 Flames were a better team then the 104 point Pacific division San Jose Sharks ?

[ButcherG]

5 hours ago, LolClarkson said:

No its not. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Do you remember the 2006 season ? Detroit had 126 points. Easily the best hockey team in the world that year. But guess what... The Oilers , who had no goal tending all year, over paid to get Dwayne Roloson. Who didn't play very good but good enough to sneak into the playoffs and they weren't even in control of their own destiny. In fact I think the Canucks had to crash and burn (they did) in order for the Oilers to get in.

 

Now tell me with a straight face that the Edmonton Oilers were a better team then the Detroit Red wings that year. Because according to the playoffs, they were.

 

The 2004 Flames were 7th seed tweeners going into the playoffs. They were in and out of the playoffs all year. But tell me with a straight face that the 04 Flames were a better team then the 104 point Pacific division San Jose Sharks ?

Neither team won the cup. They were Cinderella flukes. And they lost.