saucypass Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, elvis15 said: Me either. I might be convinced to go Sergachev after the WJs (even if he wasn't dominant I think he showed more than Juolevi and certainly Bean) but I wouldn't rush to look at McAvoy that high in the draft. Even as suitup covered in response to your later post, McAvoy may have some strong suits but he seems to be second best to each player (Juolevi, Sergachev, Chychrun) in their area of strength. He may have a strong, well-rounded game, but might not surpass any of them at the top end. Of course, each of them might not make their top end and struggle as a result, where McAvoy could excel purely on his all around strengths. 10 hours ago, J.R. said: That's my assessment as well. Good player, love to have him. Doesn't have as high of a ceiling. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: But high Ceiling isn't based on being elite in one area if that was the case Megna and his speed would make him a star. Subban may be more offensively gifted than Weber but Weber's all around game makes him a more valuable player. What area is Petroangelo elite in? What about Hedman? OEL? Suter? Giordano? These D all have one thing in common, they are work horses that can play in all zones, just like McAvoy. None of them are going to dangle and score highlight real goals but they all have strong enough all around games to be difference makers. Right now all of the top D in the 2016 draft project to be a top 2, D pairing in the league and I would say McAvoy fits right into that projection. This is exactly it. Billy Sweatt would be potting 30gs per season too. Unlike forwards, defenseman can't become elite through a specialty. Look at all the #1 defenseman in the NHL today, all of them carry a complete game. (Unless you're Karlsson who scores so much to the point where your point totals are double of some top pairing defenseman. But even then you wonder whether his defensive deficiencies are worth it.) It's also unfair to compare all three of those defenseman's strengths to McAvoy. Who has better vision/reading of the game, Chychrun/Sergachev or McAvoy? Who is better in their own zone, Chychrun/Sergachev or McAvoy? Who has a better physical game, Juolevi or McAvoy? It doesn't matter who is better at which specific one thing, it's got to be their game as a whole. Even when comparing strengths, Juolevi's IQ and vision isn't so much better than McAvoy's that it completely separates him from McAvoy, especially factoring other aspects of Juolevi's game that is inferior to McAvoy's. Chychrun I don't even know why he's even in this conversation as he's shown that all he's got so far are his physical and athletic gifts. Zach Bogosian was also highly revered because of his physical gifts, look at where it got him. Sergachev is a great prospect no doubt, but right now he lacks explosive speed which should be a problem because not if, but when he turns the puck over, he's going to have trouble recovering and getting back into position. As good as his offensive game is, unfortunately his defense is worse. He'll sacrifice anything for a little more offense and if he doesn't fix that, it's going to keep him from becoming elite. And when you think about it, McAvoy's size albeit shorter, is up there in weight. Sergachev 215lbs. Chychrun 200 lbs. and McAvoy 211lbs. Juolevi's IQ is undoubtedly projected to be at an elite level. McAvoy during his draft year has always been touted to also possess elite vision and IQ, since then he's even improved in that department. Right now, you look at him play and he's really not far off from Juolevi's IQ and vision or at all. Regardless of whether it's better, worse, or the same, it's still projected to be at an elite level. At the end of the day, whether you think McAvoy's physical or athletic attributes are better or worse than Chychrun's or Sergachev, or whether he sees the ice as well as Juolevi, he has no less of a chance than anyone else in the draft at becoming a top pairing defenseman. If you think he's a safer pick than any of the three, then it tells you where he should've been drafted. Edited January 14, 2017 by suitup 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 37 minutes ago, Jiggs50 said: Was never a Tkachuk fan but man is he playing well. Puts pressure on guys that were drafted ahead of him. That list doesn't just include Juolevi but also Pul and Dubois. I have seen MT play live a couple of times and he definitely benefits because they jammed him on a great line. He doesn't create much on his own, is not fast and in my opinion will always just be a complimentary winger which are always available. Nice pick but he is what he is. I think he will be a 30-40 point guy at best. Never a top line guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter Soldier Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Horvats_Big_Head said: What are you saying? Why are you bringing up Kopitar? You must be a fanboy of OJ. I don't think he will be a bad player but we need more top 6 help as well. OJ will NOT be the top pair dman as advertised. Based on what? Formulate your answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Juolevi with 2 assists so far with 1 period remaining. Juolevi loves those no-look cross passes. Edited January 14, 2017 by Odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTG Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2nd point of the game https://streamable.com/8ik01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Jiggs50 said: Was never a Tkachuk fan but man is he playing well. Puts pressure on guys that were drafted ahead of him. That list doesn't just include Juolevi but also Pul and Dubois. I can't remember my exact stance on Tkachuk or Juolevi because I was sure that we we're going to come out with Dubois that day. When we took Juolevi, I don't think I was happy but certainly not upset. Was mostly upset because CBJ went off the board and selected Dubois who I really wanted. Tkachuk has been a huge surprise. He's on pace for what. 60 points? Pretty darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Odd. said: I can't remember my exact stance on Tkachuk or Juolevi because I was sure that we we're going to come out with Dubois that day. When we took Juolevi, I don't think I was happy but certainly not upset. Was mostly upset because CBJ went off the board and selected Dubois who I really wanted. Tkachuk has been a huge surprise. He's on pace for what. 60 points? Pretty darn good. on pace for around 55 which is fire for an 18 y/o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 17 minutes ago, numb3r 16 said: on pace for around 55 which is fire for an 18 y/o I am not comparing him straight up with Jake but he has one more goal than Jake at this point in about 14 fewer games but plays on 2nd line and power play. Almost half of MTs points are on the pp. Just saying, he might be the best fit of the top 10 picks and his stats are benefitting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 MT on our team and he would have half of his totals. It's not fair to say look what he's putting up in Calgary and think it translates to our team. He would have about 15 points at this point and maybe sent down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelar Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Maybe someone can make a thread titled "Tkatchuk, Nylander, Ehlers, Perron, Kopitar, Jagr and what could have been". 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 4 minutes ago, Stelar said: Maybe someone can make a thread titled "Tkatchuk (x2), Nylander, Ehlers, Perron, Kopitar, Jagr and what could have been". FTFY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Who cares about Tkachuk, whats done is done. Im not convinced he is a 60 point guy, he is playing with two guys that are on a roll. Ill make the same point ad nauseam - top D men are harder to find than 40-50 point wingers. Now back to Juolevi - he got at least another 2 points tonight. Kid is really heating it up since the wjc. Edited January 14, 2017 by Darius71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Odd. said: I can't remember my exact stance on Tkachuk or Juolevi because I was sure that we we're going to come out with Dubois that day. When we took Juolevi, I don't think I was happy but certainly not upset. Was mostly upset because CBJ went off the board and selected Dubois who I really wanted. Tkachuk has been a huge surprise. He's on pace for what. 60 points? Pretty darn good. I'm happy with OJ. I would still pick him over Tkachuck, Dubois and Puljujarvi. I think along with Mathews and Laine we got the best player in the draft. No one knows the future but I feel in 20 years it will come out that we got one of best three players in this draft. Edited January 14, 2017 by WHL rocks 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ihatetomatoes Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Bandwagon38 said: MT on our team and he would have half of his totals. It's not fair to say look what he's putting up in Calgary and think it translates to our team. He would have about 15 points at this point and maybe sent down Arguable. I'd think he'd slot in just fine on Horvats wing and be putting up some fine numbers. Now would willy bury him on the 4th line. Probably. But Juolevi is doing just fine anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd. Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Just now, WHL rocks said: I'm happy with OJ. I would still pick him over Tkachuck, Dubois and Puljujarvi. I think along with Mathews and Laine we got the best player in the draft. I disagree. I would pick all of those 3 above before picking Juolevi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggs50 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 3 hours ago, Bandwagon38 said: I have seen MT play live a couple of times and he definitely benefits because they jammed him on a great line. He doesn't create much on his own, is not fast and in my opinion will always just be a complimentary winger which are always available. Nice pick but he is what he is. I think he will be a 30-40 point guy at best. Never a top line guy. Uhhh he already has 27 points in 40 games...he's already a top 6 guy. Could potentially be number 1 line material but I think Calgary will pretty ecstatic if he ends up as a 2nd line winger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Ihatetomatoes said: Arguable. I'd think he'd slot in just fine on Horvats wing and be putting up some fine numbers. Now would willy bury him on the 4th line. Probably. But Juolevi is doing just fine anyway. Two left wingers though...I think Baer is better. Nice to think that Calgary had to pick MT to fill a need on LW...#tradeya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Odd. said: I disagree. I would pick all of those 3 above before picking Juolevi. We will have to wait on all of them. MT fit well with Cal no doubt but what is his ceiling? 40pts 50? He might have a JV of a sophomore year. PLD looked pretty ordinary at the WJ JP couldn't stick with the Oilers!!! OJ had a very ordinary WJ with no forward help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandwagon38 Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Bean...sucked Sergachev...worse than OJ considering g his team Jost looked great at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakyWalton Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Odd. said: I disagree. I would pick all of those 3 above before picking Juolevi. I totally agree...and people being in their right mind it would of happened....kinda like I would of taken Ehlers over Virtanen...shhhhssh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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