Alex Burrows - Where does he fit in 2016/17?

[NHTyrany]

8 hours ago, JCM7 said:

 

Ok. I'm going to help you out.  

 

After Alex's breakout year (2008-2009) he signed a 4 year deal for 2mil per season.  He could have easily made double this amount on the open market but he wanted to stay in Vancouver and help the team that took a chance on him win a cup.  At the time things looked very good for the Canucks and as it turns out they came very close to winning a cup in 2011.  The thing is that in 2009, the Sedins were also free agents and there wasn't enough cap space to keep the team together without some players making sacrifices.  Burrows made the biggest sacrifice by far.  The agreement between Canucks management and Burrows at the time was that they would do whatever they could to make it up to him on his next contract.  

 

Alex's current contract is a loan repayment. I think it's very safe to say that a buyout would have been not only a slap in the face to Alex, but an embarrassment to the organization.

 

In regards to him being hated throughout the league.  He did what made him successful.  He went from undrafted to ECHL to 30 goal scorer in the NHL.  That is amazing amd extremely rare.  I can't say that I completely agree that his agitator persona was necessary, but you can't argue with the results.

 

Alex has had some major injuries in the last 3 years.  He did look slower last year than he has ever looked in the past however I am hopeful that he comes into camp in the best shape he's been in since his injury woes began.  Even if he plays a good 2-way game and chips in with 10-15 goals he will benefit the team.

 

Alex Burrows never gives up.  He never hangs his head or shows any sort of negative attitude.  He has always done anything asked of him to help the team.  These are definitely traits you want to have around young developing players.  

 

I think that Alex will have a better year than last year.  His days of 20-30 goals are almost certainly over, but he will still find ways to contribute.

 

His $4.5mil cap hit will be on the books as well it should be.  It is the last debt owed for 2011.  

So he managed to stay with a team he loves, in a city he loves, and contend for the holly grail. And to do that it meant only $2M per year. Wow! It was his choice and the club should owe him nothing but whatever are in his contract terms. If there is anything more owing, then it's evidence of collusiion in league fraud. I have a hard time thinking the club owes Alex more than he owes the club for the $20+ Million he has been payed. Likely the owners don't want to pay for his buyout so the media line is it's all about mentorship. Hopefully he can be packaged in the best interest of the team but I doubt any other team wants him right now. He would want that right? Everyone says how much he cares about the team so if the team comes first, Alex comes second....

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, NHTyrany said:

So he managed to stay with a team he loves, in a city he loves, and contend for the holly grail. And to do that it meant only $2M per year. Wow! It was his choice and the club should owe him nothing but whatever are in his contract terms. If there is anything more owing, then it's evidence of collusiion in league fraud. I have a hard time thinking the club owes Alex more than he owes the club for the $20+ Million he has been payed. Likely the owners don't want to pay for his buyout so the media line is it's all about mentorship. Hopefully he can be packaged in the best interest of the team but I doubt any other team wants him right now. He would want that right? Everyone says how much he cares about the team so if the team comes first, Alex comes second....

Trade deadline deal?

[nuck-lifer]

Barring injuries he should have a bounce back year. The rib injury slowed him down over the summer in 2015 and therefore he was already at a disadvantage to start the season. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see 15-20 goals like he produced in 2014-2015. He is still a good PK guy, can chip in on the power play to cover off injuries, and will help Etem, Virt, Gaunce and others in the bottom 6 especially, educating them on the defensive side of the game. 

Agree that the mentor-ship is being pushed too much by the club, and they should talk about his actual performance and what they expect from him on the ice.

Is he worth 4.5 mil?, Absolutely not and never was. He benefited from the Sedin's, and that should not have been converted into his contract. I think if they offered 3 mil over 4 years he would have taken that knowing that the Sedin's were the reason for his success at the time.

Also Gillis should not have felt there should be pay back due to the 2 mil contract for 4 years, or any other contract. You roll the dice and sometimes you win or more often you lose.

[kingofsurrey]

5 hours ago, NHTyrany said:

So he managed to stay with a team he loves, in a city he loves, and contend for the holly grail. And to do that it meant only $2M per year. Wow! It was his choice and the club should owe him nothing but whatever are in his contract terms. If there is anything more owing, then it's evidence of collusiion in league fraud. I have a hard time thinking the club owes Alex more than he owes the club for the $20+ Million he has been payed. Likely the owners don't want to pay for his buyout so the media line is it's all about mentorship. Hopefully he can be packaged in the best interest of the team but I doubt any other team wants him right now. He would want that right? Everyone says how much he cares about the team so if the team comes first, Alex comes second....

Kid from the ECHL made 20 million in the NHL

 

No one owes Burrows anything.

 

Hell of a career but it is time for Alex to hang em up......    

 

If he doesn't want to retire now then send him to Utica.

[Tony Da Tigre]

Burrows did alot for this organization, and we made a classy move by not buying him out. Unfortunately his best days are probably behind him after so many years of playing with the Sedins(we now have Eriksson afterall).

 

I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to turn back the clock and score 30+ goals although I would love to see that.

[CanadianRugby]

Where does Burrows fit.  As a very expensive mentor for young forwards. 

[sonoman]

On July 26, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Ronaldoescobar said:

arguably the most hated player in the NHL (by opposing players, fans, media, etc) over the last decade, makes for a good role model for the young guys.

Interesting comment.  The dozen or so lists I googled, showed him at #7 on SI's list.  He didn't make any of the other lists I checked. Two other ex-Canucks were ranked higher and more often though.  RK17 and Matt Cooke.  Food for thought.  When Trevor commented on his relationship with the younger players, I tend to believe him.  I am also hoping for a bounce back year for Alex.

[kingofsurrey]

Burrows may start the year with the Canucks but once we are out of playoff contention, he will be sent to Utica  if he can not be moved at the TDL 

[JCM7]

13 hours ago, Fakename70 said:

So, he should be kept around because he volunteered to take a pay cut? Actual production numbers be damned! What the hell "promise" are you talking about? ANY contract can be bought out. You, for some reason, still think I'm against having a mix of veterans and younger players. No. What I'm against is keeping an older player who isn't producing. And, I think you need to re-read the comments in this forum. Plenty of CDC'rs think Burrows will be best utilised next season as a mentor, and some even go as far as to use Vrbata as an example of a player not suited for that role, yet omitting that that likely isn't why he was even offered a contract in the first place. It hasn't been just 1 bad year for Burrows. It's been 3 of the last 4. What part of that did you miss?

I'll respond in reverse.

 

Burr's numbers were good during the lockout year (2012/13).  He 13 goals and was a +15. This would put him on pace for 23 goals over a full year.  

 

The following year he was injured on the first day of the season and came back in the middle of the Torts debacle.  He did have a lot of trouble getting back up to speed, but as soon as he got on a roll he got hit in the face with the puck and was out again.  He played 49 games that year but it was basically a write-off.

 

2014/15 his numbers were decent again and last year was not very good.

 

You could agrue that 2 of the last 4 years were bad, but when a guy has 3 major injuries is one year and is playing on a team in complete chaos it's a bit of a stretch to refer to that as a poor performance.

 

That said, as I keep saying I agree with you that if others are outperforming him he isn't owed a roster spot.  He is however owed the full term and dollar value of his contract and he is owned the chance to come to camp and play for a spot.  Given that his contract has to be paid regardless, it wouldn't make sense to not give him that shot.

 

There is a reason why Burrows wasn't bought out.  Obviously 4.5mil is an excessive cap hit for a guy who scored 9 goals last year.  JB bought out Higgins so clearly he is willing to make those decisions.

 

You say "So he should be kept around because he volunteered to take a pay cut?".  Basically what you are saying is he shouldn't have been such an idiot to do the team a favor.  We owe him nothing.  How many top line wingers with 30 goals sign for $2mil per season?  What do you think happened in those negotiations?  Do you think Burr and his agent just didn't realize what the going rate was?

 

[JCM7]

13 hours ago, kylecanuck said:

How the mighty burrows has fallen since grabbing that puck out of the air, charging across the blue line and ripping a fluttering puck top corner on the hawks to snap our curse.... That memorie right there still gives me shivers

 

is Burrows the same player, hell no but he will be solid in a fourth line roll for one more year. Im more than happy to pay him 4.5 million for one more year after all he has given this team. To anyone expecting to win the cup, we aren't. Let burrows play out his contract, even as a 13th forward and then next year he is off the books. 

 

Blah blah rebuild, bring up every rookie, get rid of every old player.... We aren't the deepest team and need good leaders like burrows to help our younger players. 

Exactly.  Well said.

[Fakename70]

4 hours ago, JCM7 said:

I'll respond in reverse.

 

Burr's numbers were good during the lockout year (2012/13).  He 13 goals and was a +15. This would put him on pace for 23 goals over a full year.  

 

The following year he was injured on the first day of the season and came back in the middle of the Torts debacle.  He did have a lot of trouble getting back up to speed, but as soon as he got on a roll he got hit in the face with the puck and was out again.  He played 49 games that year but it was basically a write-off.

 

2014/15 his numbers were decent again and last year was not very good.

 

You could agrue that 2 of the last 4 years were bad, but when a guy has 3 major injuries is one year and is playing on a team in complete chaos it's a bit of a stretch to refer to that as a poor performance.

 

That said, as I keep saying I agree with you that if others are outperforming him he isn't owed a roster spot.  He is however owed the full term and dollar value of his contract and he is owned the chance to come to camp and play for a spot.  Given that his contract has to be paid regardless, it wouldn't make sense to not give him that shot.

 

There is a reason why Burrows wasn't bought out.  Obviously 4.5mil is an excessive cap hit for a guy who scored 9 goals last year.  JB bought out Higgins so clearly he is willing to make those decisions.

 

You say "So he should be kept around because he volunteered to take a pay cut?".  Basically what you are saying is he shouldn't have been such an idiot to do the team a favor.  We owe him nothing.  How many top line wingers with 30 goals sign for $2mil per season?  What do you think happened in those negotiations?  Do you think Burr and his agent just didn't realize what the going rate was?

 

So, when Burrows has trouble getting back up to speed after injuries, it's understandable, but not Higgins? Did he not miss time, too? When healthy, did he not have comparable numbers? YOU might not want to acknowledge it, but, the reaction from fans just like you surely play a sizeable role in him not being given the same treatment as Higgins, even if it'd be justified from a production standpoint. And, no, it doesn't sit well with me if he's being kept around because he gave the organisation a hometown discount. Not if he's in decline. Which he is. Sorry. 

He's not "owed" anything any more than Vrbata was, as it relates to him reportedly being told when he signed here that he'd have the twins as linemates. Isn't that what his detractors at CDC say? But, Burrows deserves "special consideration" because, unlike Higgins and Vrbata, he took a pay cut to stay. Ok...

 

He'd better outplay Grenier and Virtanen in camp then. Going to be a head shaker if he doesn't, but is awarded a spot anyway as a "mentor". 

[kylecanuck]

3 hours ago, Fakename70 said:

So, when Burrows has trouble getting back up to speed after injuries, it's understandable, but not Higgins? Did he not miss time, too? When healthy, did he not have comparable numbers? YOU might not want to acknowledge it, but, the reaction from fans just like you surely play a sizeable role in him not being given the same treatment as Higgins, even if it'd be justified from a production standpoint. And, no, it doesn't sit well with me if he's being kept around because he gave the organisation a hometown discount. Not if he's in decline. Which he is. Sorry. 

He's not "owed" anything any more than Vrbata was, as it relates to him reportedly being told when he signed here that he'd have the twins as linemates. Isn't that what his detractors at CDC say? But, Burrows deserves "special consideration" because, unlike Higgins and Vrbata, he took a pay cut to stay. Ok...

 

He'd better outplay Grenier and Virtanen in camp then. Going to be a head shaker if he doesn't, but is awarded a spot anyway as a "mentor". 

 

 

do not compare burrows to higgins and dont you dare throw out Vrbata as he was here for a couple years and useless. higgins was here for a but longer then vrbata but didnt show the heart and passion burrows has since he joined tha canucks

 

 

Borrows was drafted, came up with this team and succeeded with this team.  Took majore discounts to give us the most competitive team in the league for almost a decade. Yes he deserves some credit for putting up points and sacrificing his body for the team. 

 

 

If grenier or virtanan out play him then we can look at making some moves. Untill then give the guy a break and relax, one more year and the salary is off the books. 

[Fakename70]

51 minutes ago, kylecanuck said:

 

 

do not compare burrows to higgins and dont you dare throw out Vrbata as he was here for a couple years and useless. higgins was here for a but longer then vrbata but didnt show the heart and passion burrows has since he joined tha canucks

 

 

Borrows was drafted, came up with this team and succeeded with this team.  Took majore discounts to give us the most competitive team in the league for almost a decade. Yes he deserves some credit for putting up points and sacrificing his body for the team. 

 

 

If grenier or virtanan out play him then we can look at making some moves. Untill then give the guy a break and relax, one more year and the salary is off the books. 

Don't cry. But, over the last few years when both were healthy, Higgins had better numbers than Burrows. 

 

Was Vrbata "useless" his first season here when he led the team in goals and points? You tell me. Heart and passion are nice, but, ultimately a guy who gets paid to put the puck in the net needs to do just that. His first year, he did. But, CDC'rs have selective memories, I know. Note that the Burrows apologists have to reach back a half decade to reference the last time their hero did that with any consistency. 

 

Wait, I had to re-read your comment; did you just say the Canucks fielded the most competitive team in the league for almost a decade? The Vancouver Canucks? You sure? Depends on your definition of "competitive", I guess. 

[Ronaldoescobar]

10 hours ago, sonoman said:

Interesting comment.  The dozen or so lists I googled, showed him at #7 on SI's list.  He didn't make any of the other lists I checked. Two other ex-Canucks were ranked higher and more often though.  RK17 and Matt Cooke.  Food for thought.  When Trevor commented on his relationship with the younger players, I tend to believe him.  I am also hoping for a bounce back year for Alex.

To each their own I guess...When the Canucks are stinking up the NHL obviously the focus will $&!# to other teams and players, but you must not remember when Vancouver was challenging for the cup only a few years ago.  I have to agree with the others posting its a waste of a spot and he is owed nothing. This is a business and winning and making money are the ultimate goals. From that perspective I do not see how dropping 4M (or about 500K per goal) and taking a roster spot from a more deserving player will achieve said goals.. 

 

Down rank my comments all you want as you are a fan of burrows... I have nothing against him aside from thinking he is now not worth the roster spot. And a little hesitant given his past behavior to think he is a good role model.. maybe a nice guy in person sure, but leading by example... I dont think so. He was a tremendous player for us in his prime but again this does not this mean we owe him a spot on the roster now.  I also have nothing against Linden but do think he tends to bend or withhold the truth a lot of the time (as is part of his job of course). To think they are keeping him solely based on his ability to mentor the young guys is absurd.. This has Aqua man not wanting to write a large buyout cheque all over it. If his mentor-ship was really that valuable we could buy him out and give him some sort of coaching role or something.

 

You could argue this same point with Hammer who in my opinion has far far more skill at this point in his career than burrows, gave the best years of his career to Vancouver at a steep discount like Burrows, is a home town guy, and could have mentored the young D. Didnt stop the Canucks from letting him walk like he was nothing....

[kylecanuck]

35 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

Don't cry. But, over the last few years when both were healthy, Higgins had better numbers than Burrows. 

 

Was Vrbata "useless" his first season here when he led the team in goals and points? You tell me. Heart and passion are nice, but, ultimately a guy who gets paid to put the puck in the net needs to do just that. His first year, he did. But, CDC'rs have selective memories, I know. Note that the Burrows apologists have to reach back a half decade to reference the last time their hero did that with any consistency. 

 

Wait, I had to re-read your comment; did you just say the Canucks fielded the most competitive team in the league for almost a decade? The Vancouver Canucks? You sure? Depends on your definition of "competitive", I guess. 

 

 

Yes vrbata was useless, yes even for the one season he managed to do anything.. I suppose one decent season should pretty much retire his number then? Ring of honour at least!!  I know that one season was way more important then the 11 or so burrows put in... Cough cough

 

 

yes making it to the playoffs every year but three since 01-02, winning the presidents trophy, having heart trophys and selke trophys(I think kesler won one right?) back to back art ross trophys, they also made it to game seven of the stanly cup, but none of that means they where a highly competitive team right? 

 

 

Your right higgins outscored burrows two seasons in a row, in one season he played 30 more games and the other was 9 games more then burrows. Burrows has outscored higgins every other year they where in the league together other then burrows rookie season. 

 

[westcoast]

A lot of posters are pointing out Burrows past injuries and the fact he starts this year healthy,but the fact also should be stated his cumulative career injuries could have rendered him ineffective.

[Fakename70]

3 hours ago, kylecanuck said:

 

 

Yes vrbata was useless, yes even for the one season he managed to do anything.. I suppose one decent season should pretty much retire his number then? Ring of honour at least!!  I know that one season was way more important then the 11 or so burrows put in... Cough cough

 

 

yes making it to the playoffs every year but three since 01-02, winning the presidents trophy, having heart trophys and selke trophys(I think kesler won one right?) back to back art ross trophys, they also made it to game seven of the stanly cup, but none of that means they where a highly competitive team right? 

 

 

Your right higgins outscored burrows two seasons in a row, in one season he played 30 more games and the other was 9 games more then burrows. Burrows has outscored higgins every other year they where in the league together other then burrows rookie season. 

 

I think perhaps you need to re-evaluate your definition of the words "competitive" and "useless". With regards to that decade of the Canucks being the best team in the league or whatever, I think you're confusing "competitive" with successful. Some of us have a higher level of expectation for our favourite NHL club than merely making the playoffs.

 

If you can find anywhere on CDC where I've ever even implied that Vrbata is/was all that and a bag of chips, please, by all means copy and paste that in this space here: __________________. But, in typical CDC fashion, I think a bit of delusional Revisionist History/selective memory is in-play among those who suggest, as you did, that in his time here he was "useless". As if that first season didn't happen and his role and line mates didn't change from one year to the next. The entire team sucked last year. But, yeah, let's single out Vrbata for not warming up to the role of "mentor" on a losing team 1 season removed from the playoffs. He doesn't deserve any more of the blame for last season than he deserves all the credit for the year before that. 

 

And, with regards to your final paragraph, you, of course recall me pointing out that the Burrows apologists have to reach back a half decade at least to give an example of when he was last an effective player. You're comparing Burrows and Higgins since they've been in the league. I'm referring specifically to them as teammates in Vancouver. Why do you have such a problem with holding your hero to a what-has-he-done-lately standard?

[jimmyking8888]

If Burrows scores more than 10 goals, they can move him at the deadline for a 3rd rounder.

[kylecanuck]

13 minutes ago, Fakename70 said:

I think perhaps you need to re-evaluate your definition of the words "competitive" and "useless". With regards to that decade of the Canucks being the best team in the league or whatever, I think you're confusing "competitive" with successful. Some of us have a higher level of expectation for our favourite NHL club than merely making the playoffs.

 

If you can find anywhere on CDC where I've ever even implied that Vrbata is/was all that and a bag of chips, please, by all means copy and paste that in this space here: __________________. But, in typical CDC fashion, I think a bit of delusional Revisionist History/selective memory is in-play among those who suggest, as you did, that in his time here he was "useless". As if that first season didn't happen and his role and line mates didn't change from one year to the next. The entire team sucked last year. But, yeah, let's single out Vrbata for not warming up to the role of "mentor" on a losing team 1 season removed from the playoffs. He doesn't deserve any more of the blame for last season than he deserves all the credit for the year before that. 

 

And, with regards to your final paragraph, you, of course recall me pointing out that the Burrows apologists have to reach back a half decade at least to give an example of when he was last an effective player. You're comparing Burrows and Higgins since they've been in the league. I'm referring specifically to them as teammates in Vancouver. Why do you have such a problem with holding your hero to a what-has-he-done-lately standard?

 

 

Reason im talking about Vrbata is because you started using him as an example, so I stuck with it. 

 

Definition of competitive - "As good as or better than others in a comparable nature."

 

i think the Canucks have fit that billing in the time I specified without going back into details for ya. 

 

 

Useless - of no use or not serving it's purpose; unavailing futile. 

 

Vrbata was brough in to put up points with the sedins at first, I do recall that media story yes. That doesn't mean if your play no longer warrants first line play, or your coach sees it as more necessary to get another line going, that you can mail it in. He grabbed some passes from henrik and daniel in his first season but so did Taylor Pyatt and Anson Carter while they played in that spot.  The guy played two heartless seasons here, why so much love for him?

 

I cant remember him even cracking a smile while scoring a goal, I just remember a  tight lipped nod to his teamates. 

 

 

As for the "what have you dont for me lately with burrows"....Quoted from our head coach

 

“He’s one of the best players I’ve ever coached,” said Willie Desjardins. “Just his attitude to the game. The thing you like about Alex is his respect for the game and what he feels. It’s always about finding ways to win and he’s always at optional skates helping the young guys."

 

im happy if this is all he does for this team this comming season, and even resigned beyond. 

 

 

What has your hero Vrbata and higgins done lately?

 

 

[IbanezRG]

On July 27, 2016 at 11:52 AM, NHTyrany said:

So he managed to stay with a team he loves, in a city he loves, and contend for the holly grail. And to do that it meant only $2M per year. Wow! It was his choice and the club should owe him nothing but whatever are in his contract terms. If there is anything more owing, then it's evidence of collusiion in league fraud. I have a hard time thinking the club owes Alex more than he owes the club for the $20+ Million he has been payed. Likely the owners don't want to pay for his buyout so the media line is it's all about mentorship. Hopefully he can be packaged in the best interest of the team but I doubt any other team wants him right now. He would want that right? Everyone says how much he cares about the team so if the team comes first, Alex comes second....

 

One of the first things you learn in Business is that Ethics and how you treat people always comes first.