Jake on the PP

[BlackBeard]

1 hour ago, Realtor Rod said:

The power play is a shooting play, not board play. Ovie and Stammer do not cycle. They slot and shoot. No one has a better shot on this team than Jake. Ergo Jake should be on the pp. 

I see more of Matthias, and Hansen on Virtanen. Comparing him to Ovie and Stammer seem ridiculous, as they've actually proven to be goal scorers even at that age. I don't buy Virtanens shot even though people call it one of his strength, I actually believe Bo has a better shot than him, not naming Sutter and Erikson 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

I see more of Matthias, and Hansen on Virtanen. Comparing him to Ovie and Stammer seem ridiculous, as they've actually proven to be goal scorers even at that age. I don't buy Virtanens shot even though people call it one of his strength, I actually believe Bo has a better shot than him, not naming Sutter and Erikson 

It's not just the valocity of his shot, but it's the accuracy and quickness of his release that make it very good.  And Stamkos, and OV get guys like the Twins to feed them chances.  JV will score 40+ plus, once he gets more chances.

[BlackBeard]

Just now, Alflives said:

It's not just the valocity of his shot, but it's the accuracy and quickness of his release that make it very good.  And Stamkos, and OV get guys like the Twins to feed them chances.  JV will score 40+ plus, once he gets more chances

I don't know which player we're talking about to be honest. Virtanen has been to two WJC, Utica playoffs run, with us last year,  and he had shown nothing to prove that he is a goal scorer, he's nowhere near Kessel, Malkin, Nash, Forsberg, Neal, Monahan, Marchand goalscorering level even at the same age. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

I don't know which player we're talking about to be honest. Virtanen has been to two WJC, Utica playoffs run, with us last year,  and he had shown nothing to prove that he is a goal scorer, he's nowhere near Kessel, Malkin, Nash, Forsberg, Neal, Monahan, Marchand goalscorering level even at the same age. 

You just listed a slew of guys, who create their own shots a lot of the time.  Jake is not that type of scorer.  He needs to play with elite passers.  

[Realtor Rod]

38 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Yet Willie has stated that the AHL is a good development league when reporters have brought Jake and AHL together.

 

Don't think he and JB are not very open to sending him down. If Rodin was completely healthy he probably would be.

 

AHL is where Jake should be, getting top 6 minutes and PP time in Utica. He won't get those here until he blows Willie's mind and he is too raw of a player to do that.

Again, you are likely wrong as they have Skille sitting and more veteran guys in Utica who could play up IF they felt Jake should be in Utica. Jake will be here all year. Eventually he will play with Bo and Sven again and they will succeed. 

[kingofsurrey]

8 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

I don't know which player we're talking about to be honest. Virtanen has been to two WJC, Utica playoffs run, with us last year,  and he had shown nothing to prove that he is a goal scorer, he's nowhere near Kessel, Malkin, Nash, Forsberg, Neal, Monahan, Marchand goalscorering level even at the same age. 

 

Too funny..   Scoring 45 goals in the WHL as  a  17 yr old is  serious goal scoring potential........

 

Guys like you don't believe in patience and development .....   

[Realtor Rod]

10 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

I don't know which player we're talking about to be honest. Virtanen has been to two WJC, Utica playoffs run, with us last year,  and he had shown nothing to prove that he is a goal scorer, he's nowhere near Kessel, Malkin, Nash, Forsberg, Neal, Monahan, Marchand goalscorering level even at the same age. 

We get it, you dont like Jake. 

[kingofsurrey]

18 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

Too funny..   Scoring 45 goals in the WHL as  a  17 yr old is  serious goal scoring potential........

 

Guys like you don't believe in patience and development .....   

 

Pretty sure Marchand only scored 30 goals in jr as a  17 yr old.......

[NEON.KNEE]

6 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

 

Pretty sure Marchand only scored 30 goals in jr as a  17 yr old.......

Marchand has JUST broken out as a reliable goal scorer last season...This should be a welcomed trajectory for Jake as well... He should get 15-20 for a couple of seasons and then break out...He looked really good last night, I don't know what people are smoking.

[Junkyard Dog]

14 minutes ago, Realtor Rod said:

Again, you are likely wrong as they have Skille sitting and more veteran guys in Utica who could play up IF they felt Jake should be in Utica. Jake will be here all year. Eventually he will play with Bo and Sven again and they will succeed. 

 

You do realize we have Rodin right?

 

Given Rodin is a proven goal scorer and point producer at the pro level he will get more of an opportunity offensively than Jake when he is a healthy.

 

I guess you like Jake getting 4th line minutes. That hurts his development more than anything. Jake needs to be in Utica where he can have a bigger role and I don't doubt management is open to the idea if he isn't playing much and isn't justifying why he should get more minutes. Jake has to start blowing JB and the coaches out of the water if he wants that, no more of this stagnant play.

 

In the AHL Jake will be getting big minutes, playing more roles and given more responsibility. Here and now he is getting 4th line minutes, given no roles and no responsibility.

 

He may have until Rodin is ready to prove that not only does he belong but that he is capable of handling more responsibility. He needs to make the most of the time he has when he is out there if he wants more minutes and more responsibility. The only times I have noticed Jake is when he is getting hit or hurt.

 

Right now he hasn't proven anything but that he has potential and a tool set we desire. A tool set that I want to see flourish and a potential I want to see reached.

 

The AHL, right now, will help him more than anything. If he stays in the NHL, given what he has given to him now from here forward, it will hinder his development.

[Realtor Rod]

20 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

You do realize we have Rodin right?

 

Given Rodin is a proven goal scorer and point producer at the pro level he will get more of an opportunity offensively than Jake when he is a healthy.

 

I guess you like Jake getting 4th line minutes. That hurts his development more than anything. Jake needs to be in Utica where he can have a bigger role and I don't doubt management is open to the idea if he isn't playing much and isn't justifying why he should get more minutes. Jake has to start blowing JB and the coaches out of the water if he wants that, no more of this stagnant play.

 

In the AHL Jake will be getting big minutes, playing more roles and given more responsibility. Here and now he is getting 4th line minutes, given no roles and no responsibility.

 

He may have until Rodin is ready to prove that not only does he belong but that he is capable of handling more responsibility. He needs to make the most of the time he has when he is out there if he wants more minutes and more responsibility. The only times I have noticed Jake is when he is getting hit or hurt.

 

Right now he hasn't proven anything but that he has potential and a tool set we desire. A tool set that I want to see flourish and a potential I want to see reached.

 

The AHL, right now, will help him more than anything. If he stays in the NHL, given what he has given to him now from here forward, it will hinder his development.

So in your opinion, a guy who scored overseas is a proven goal scorer? I am going to not bother reading the rest of your post, sorry.

 

Rodin didnt get 20 overseas. In fact, he never scored 20 at any level of hockey. 

[BlackBeard]

59 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You just listed a slew of guys, who create their own shots a lot of the time.  Jake is not that type of scorer.  He needs to play with elite passers

That's just stupid. Score 40 goals without creating you own chances. Even if Virt is with the Sedins if he doesn't know where to go positionaly and create space for himself,(which often what those listed players do) Jake will get no where. 

 

You're saying that a player with a good shot, with an elite passers would score 40+g. Way too general

 

[cripplereh]

I would if they put him there to see him at LW where he should be and bet you see more goals on the PP and by him

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

That's just stupid. Score 40 goals without creating you own chances. Even if Virt is with the Sedins if he doesn't know where to go positionaly and create space for himself,(which often what those listed players do) Jake will get no where. 

 

You're saying that a player with a good shot, with an elite passers would score 40+g. Way too general

 

Ever heard of Mike Bossey, or Brett Hull?  Great shots, combined with very quick release.  Why do you think JV was drafted do high?  Big, fast, aggressive, and elite shot.  Without the elite shot, he is a 2nd or later round guy.  

 

[BlackBeard]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Ever heard of Mike Bossey, or Brett Hull?  Great shots, combined with very quick release.  Why do you think JV was drafted do high?  Big, fast, aggressive, and elite shot.  Without the elite shot, he is a 2nd or later round guy.  

 

I think JV was drafted too high because he's big, he can skate, He hits, BC born(canadian) people fearful of another Cam Neely going away, and most importantly we were obsessed with size. We just drafted him too high.

Don't really know about Bossy and Hull, but I'm pretty sure themy having elite shot is not enough to make them elite goal scorers. 

[Junkyard Dog]

15 minutes ago, Realtor Rod said:

So in your opinion, a guy who scored overseas is a proven goal scorer? I am going to not bother reading the rest of your post, sorry.

 

Rodin didnt get 20 overseas. In fact, he never scored 20 at any level of hockey. 

 

Yet he was the Swedish League MVP despite a major injury and would of likely potted 20 if not for the injury. You only touch that in all my post, not even pressing on anything else I said? Really?

 

You also look at numbers? How many goals did Virtanen score in the NHL or AHL? That argument is redundant either way. In fact you haven't really stated anything credible to back up your opinion.

 

At least I have substance to my opinion.

 

I have stated that if Jake does not blow the coaches and JB out of the water he should be sent down. I have expressed how he hasn't thus far.

 

I stated how Jake has raw talent and I believe that the AHL is the best place for him to refine his game.

 

I have stated that top 6 minutes in Utica and given more responsibility is a lot better than 4th line minutes and no responsibility here in the NHL.

 

I have stated how Rodin is a proven scorer at the pro level, which he is, and the fact that he will be given more opportunity offensively ahead of Jake which makes sense considering that he is a goal scorer and offensive player. I mean what else are we going to put Rodin in, a checking role? A PKer?

 

I have stated how Willie was very vocal about how great the AHL is for development when the reporters talked to him about potentially sending Jake down. They've also stated that they would do what's best for Jake. Considering that I believe they're open to sending him down if he does not play up to their expectations, whatever that may be.

 

My points point out how open I am regarding Jake. If he proves himself then I would be happy for him to stay but he hasn't yet and I don't feel like he will given the circumstances. Circumstances can and do change but right now this is how I stand. I would perfectly fine sending him down for a long stretch in the AHL until he fine tunes his game or until we hit injuries.

 

 

 

You aren't worth much time if you can't put in time to read everything I say or at least say something meaningful back.
 

 

 

[Realtor Rod]

21 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Yet he was the Swedish League MVP despite a major injury and would of likely potted 20 if not for the injury. You only touch that in all my post, not even pressing on anything else I said? Really?

 

You also look at numbers? How many goals did Virtanen score in the NHL or AHL? That argument is redundant either way. In fact you haven't really stated anything credible to back up your opinion.

 

At least I have substance to my opinion.

 

I have stated that if Jake does not blow the coaches and JB out of the water he should be sent down. I have expressed how he hasn't thus far.

 

I stated how Jake has raw talent and I believe that the AHL is the best place for him to refine his game.

 

I have stated that top 6 minutes in Utica and given more responsibility is a lot better than 4th line minutes and no responsibility here in the NHL.

 

I have stated how Rodin is a proven scorer at the pro level, which he is, and the fact that he will be given more opportunity offensively ahead of Jake which makes sense considering that he is a goal scorer and offensive player. I mean what else are we going to put Rodin in, a checking role? A PKer?

 

I have stated how Willie was very vocal about how great the AHL is for development when the reporters talked to him about potentially sending Jake down. They've also stated that they would do what's best for Jake. Considering that I believe they're open to sending him down if he does not play up to their expectations, whatever that may be.

 

My points point out how open I am regarding Jake. If he proves himself then I would be happy for him to stay but he hasn't yet and I don't feel like he will given the circumstances. Circumstances can and do change but right now this is how I stand. I would perfectly fine sending him down for a long stretch in the AHL until he fine tunes his game or until we hit injuries.

 

 

 

You aren't worth much time if you can't put in time to read everything I say or at least say something meaningful back.
 

 

 

Words and more words but in the end, the guys getting paid to decide where he plays have him here. In fact, Virt has more goals in the NHL than Rodin and is 5 years younger. Carry on. 

[Realtor Rod]

39 minutes ago, BlackBeard said:

I think JV was drafted too high because he's big, he can skate, He hits, BC born(canadian) people fearful of another Cam Neely going away, and most importantly we were obsessed with size. We just drafted him too high.

Don't really know about Bossy and Hull, but I'm pretty sure themy having elite shot is not enough to make them elite goal scorers. 

Brett Hull is likely the most one dimensional player in the history of the NHL. If Jake can be that one dimensional, I take it. However, he isn't and we get to watch this 20 year old grow.

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

9 hours ago, gurn said:

I guess this is a response to an edited comment, but it looks like a response to a sexist/homophobic comment- I hope not, after all it is 2016 and nobody should care who someone is into.

Sounds like your taking this the wrong way.  All he's saying is that Horvat likes to drape himself all over a big D and work down low on a PP.  Get your mind out of the gutter.

[Junkyard Dog]

53 minutes ago, Realtor Rod said:

Words and more words but in the end, the guys getting paid to decide where he plays have him here. In fact, Virt has more goals in the NHL than Rodin and is 5 years younger. Carry on. 

 

This point is so redundant. What is the point of that statement?

 

Rodin is still clearly the better offensive player at this point.