aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, LaBamba said: I am looking at my abacus. JB has been here 3 years so that's 3 beads over. It takes 2 years after being drafted to play professional hockey so let's take 2 beads away. Ok J.R, I'm left with 1 bead here where representing Utica eligible players at his first draft. I'll add another one to represent all and Draft picks he wasted that 1st year he got Dorset and Vey with. Maybe another one to represent all the picks or prospects he could have manufactured by getting rid of some more fading core pieces. According to my abucas its all JB's fault. Have you even looked at that draft from 3 years ago? Go ahead and look who we took and where they are. I'll wait here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, J.R. said: Have you even looked at that draft from 3 years ago? Go ahead and look who we took and where they are. I'll wait here. Its more about who we couldn't take because we didn't have the picks to take them. Im in disbelief here. We have been under this management for 3 off seasons. We have a talentless farm team and a talentless NHL team. You can't even give the slightest bit of criticism for this horrible nightmare? Ill bet he is holding himself accountable, I'll bet you he sees it. Imagine all the things he knows that we don't. All of his missed opportunities stewing in his brain. This is the 1st wave of this Gills Gap fill BS coming back to bite us in the A$$. That 2nd for Vey and Forsling alone are enough fail for me. That 2nd had a lot of good players surrounding it and you can guarantee Jim woulda picked one of them. If our team was somewhat formidable I would be able to except the risks taken to fill this gap but we clearly aren't. Even if we turn this around and somehow make the playoffs, do we have the depth to make it past the 1st round? Even the biggest Ultra homers on CDC have to be able to see that this plan isn't going as well as everyone had hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeBee51 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 I came here for the coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 21 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Its more about who we couldn't take because we didn't have the picks to take them. Im in disbelief here. We have been under this management for 3 off seasons. We have a talentless farm team and a talentless NHL team. You can't even give the slightest bit of criticism for this horrible nightmare? Ill bet he is holding himself accountable, I'll bet you he sees it. Imagine all the things he knows that we don't. All of his missed opportunities stewing in his brain. This is the 1st wave of this Gills Gap fill BS coming back to bite us in the A$$. That 2nd for Vey and Forsling alone are enough fail for me. That 2nd had a lot of good players surrounding it and you can guarantee Jim woulda picked one of them. If our team was somewhat formidable I would be able to except the risks taken to fill this gap but we clearly aren't. Even if we turn this around and somehow make the playoffs, do we have the depth to make it past the 1st round? Even the biggest Ultra homers on CDC have to be able to see that this plan isn't going as well as everyone had hoped. I dont think Benning has been perfect. But this team was riding high on the hog for the better part of a decade and coughing up picks along the way to bolster cup run chances. Do you really think that if he had McCann, Forsling, Shinkaruk and whoever back the team would be a playoff team? The problem is the core is old and stale and for the most part untradeable (have fun trying to trade 2 old sedins and no trade clause edler). Cant blame benning for that. Most teams go through phases. Sometimes they are at the top of the league, sometimes they are not competitive. We are at the bottom of a cycle EVERYONE knew was coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just now, LaBamba said: Its more about who we couldn't take because we didn't have the picks to take them. Im in disbelief here. We have been under this management for 3 off seasons. We have a talentless farm team and a talentless NHL team. You can't even give the slightest bit of criticism for this horrible nightmare? Ill bet he is holding himself accountable, I'll bet you he sees it. Imagine all the things he knows that we don't. All of his missed opportunities stewing in his brain. This is the 1st wave of this Gills Gap fill BS coming back to bite us in the A$$. That 2nd for Vey and Forsling alone are enough fail for me. That 2nd had a lot of good players surrounding it and you can guarantee Jim woulda picked one of them. If our team was somewhat formidable I would be able to except the risks taken to fill this gap but we clearly aren't. Even if we turn this around and somehow make the playoffs, do we have the depth to make it past the 1st round? Even the biggest Ultra homers on CDC have to be able to see that this plan isn't going as well as everyone had hoped. The plan's going largely as expected IMO. I'm sure they'd prefer to have won a few more of the close games than they've lost but otherwise... Who we couldn't take... Since you apparently can't be bothered, let me post them for you: Virtanen, McCann (now Gudbranson), Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling (Sutter), Petit, Stewart. That's 5 pretty likely NHL'ers in one draft. Two of whom we've turned in to high quality, young solid NHL'ers who will still be here in a few years when we're more competitive again. The early and important picks either already playing in the NHL or in Utica. I don't know YOU can complain about THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 minutes ago, Darius71 said: I dont think Benning has been perfect. But this team was riding high on the hog for the better part of a decade and coughing up picks along the way to bolster cup run chances. Do you really think that if he had McCann, Forsling, Shinkaruk and whoever back the team would be a playoff team? The problem is the core is old and stale and for the most part untradeable (have fun trying to trade 2 old sedins and no trade clause edler). Cant blame benning for that. Most teams go through phases. Sometimes they are at the top of the league, sometimes they are not competitive. We are at the bottom of a cycle EVERYONE knew was coming. Not half the people here who fought tooth and nail about how we are a playoff team. I get most of this but signing a guy like LE tells me it's go timez. That was another huge mistake with what we all know we have for depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, J.R. said: The plan's going largely as expected IMO. I'm sure they'd prefer to have won a few more of the close games than they've lost but otherwise... Who we couldn't take... Since you apparently can't be bothered, let me post them for you: Virtanen, McCann (now Gudbranson), Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling (Sutter), Petit, Stewart. That's 5 pretty likely NHL'ers in one draft. Two of whom we've turned in to high quality, young solid NHL'ers who will still be here in a few years when we're more competitive again. The early and important picks either already playing in the NHL or in Utica. I don't know YOU can complain about THAT. Haha don't make me drag up old quotes JR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darius Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 21 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Not half the people here who fought tooth and nail about how we are a playoff team. I get most of this but signing a guy like LE tells me it's go timez. That was another huge mistake with what we all know we have for depth. Hey, I didnt think signing Eriksson was the best way to use 36 million. But I dont see that as Benning, I see aqua man pulling strings wanting playoff gate money. The fact that Loui has been a complete bust so far isnt Bennings fault. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in his history to suggest that he is a 0 goal scorer. He has had slow start before but the guy has been a solid NHL player. I get the feeling that Benning was directed to make the playoffs from above. Signing Erikson and hoping Sven Baertschi would continue at the exact pace of the last half of last year made them a playoff team in managements mind. Its not like its far fetched. In retrospect the best direction for this team would have been to unload the core back in 2012 and start a full rebuild then. Thats in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, LaBamba said: Haha don't make me drag up old quotes JR. Way to deflect. Go ahead. I always said this team was going to be either betweena bubble playoff team or ~10th if relatively healthy. I still maintain that despite a pretty small sample size where nobody should be making cocky or definitive assumptions on where EXACTLY they'll finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, Darius71 said: Hey, I didnt think signing Eriksson was the best way to use 36 million. But I dont see that as Benning, I see aqua man pulling strings wanting playoff gate money. I don't think you've done the math on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, J.R. said: Way to deflect. Go ahead. I always said this team was going to be either betweena bubble playoff team or ~10th if relatively healthy. I still maintain that despite a pretty small sample size where nobody should be making cocky or definitive assumptions on where EXACTLY they'll finish. deflect what? A bunch of names you listed off that haven't proven anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, LaBamba said: deflect what? A bunch of names you listed off that haven't proven anything? That's what prospects are LaBamba. So what is it? Is Benning useless because you want more prospects or are prospects all worthless turds who 'haven't proved anything'? You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 13 hours ago, BowtieCanuck said: LOL. Did you quote me and then change my quote? Are you serious? Dude, you seriously want to win an argument that bad? Oh boy, I thought I'd seen it all on web forums. No. I pulled all of your Clarkson esq talk quotes verbatim into one. Not only is it you whos playing the Clarkson card yet accusing me of it. It is also you whos talking about an argument rather than constructing an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 13 hours ago, LaBamba said: Me It's all on the record. When said streaky players get hot, you can don the goat horns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, J.R. said: That's what prospects are LaBamba. So what is it? Is Benning useless because you want more prospects or are prospects all worthless turds who 'haven't proved anything'? You can't have it both ways. You're going to sit here and tell me everything is perfect because Virtanen, Demko etc are going to be solid NHL players?! Based on what? According to at least 500 posts of the past you NEED to develop players in a winning environment. What does that say about where Virtanen, Tryamkin, and Demko are right now?! Everyone says Virtanen is going to be a star but there is just zero evidence backing that up. His career is in serious jeopardy right now and he needs to take a step back immediately. How about Demko?! A goalies game is all about confidence. How confident does he feel right now with the team in front of him?! Get your head out of the sand and take a look around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 13 hours ago, hearditall said: How does guys like: Getzlaf, Perry, Pacioretty, Benn, Monahan, Coyle, Simmonds, Kesler, Lucic, Carter, Iginla, Landeskog, Backes, Weber, Burns, Seabrook, Maroon, Marchand, Ferklund, Martin, Engelland, Byfuglien, Tkatchuk, Mitchell, Chara, Crosby, Toews, Schieffle, Gallagher, Ovechkin, Kunitz, Clutterbuck, PK Subban, Kronwall, Abdelkater, Toffolli, Roussel, Kadri, Dorsett, Kreider, Shaw, etc. etc. etc. to name a few... hurt having on your roster? I think we are missing a few of these types in the forward group & yes there scoring too... Pitt won the cup with none of these Yahoo type players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NameFaker Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 43 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Its more about who we couldn't take because we didn't have the picks to take them. Im in disbelief here. We have been under this management for 3 off seasons. We have a talentless farm team and a talentless NHL team. You can't even give the slightest bit of criticism for this horrible nightmare? Ill bet he is holding himself accountable, I'll bet you he sees it. Imagine all the things he knows that we don't. All of his missed opportunities stewing in his brain. This is the 1st wave of this Gills Gap fill BS coming back to bite us in the A$$. That 2nd for Vey and Forsling alone are enough fail for me. That 2nd had a lot of good players surrounding it and you can guarantee Jim woulda picked one of them. If our team was somewhat formidable I would be able to except the risks taken to fill this gap but we clearly aren't. Even if we turn this around and somehow make the playoffs, do we have the depth to make it past the 1st round? Even the biggest Ultra homers on CDC have to be able to see that this plan isn't going as well as everyone had hoped. It isn't. You're right. About that. What you're failing to appreciate is that those were the right moves, given that the goal was to make the team competitive. 2nd rounders spent on up-and-coming assets was smart. The problem is the result, so, sure you can stand on the sidelines and take pot-shots, yet your words mean next to nothing because they only signify a naive conception of asset management and risk assessment. No way did you know before literally everyone else that Vey wouldn't pan out. No way did you know that Vrbata would straight up disappear in the second year of his contract. My point is that it's cheap and easy to criticize failures and to applaud success. It takes careful thought to do the opposite. I'd also like to note that the plan which is in place is a long term one. There was no way this team could recover in a year, and we simply didn't have enough assets to recoup high draft picks. So, from those premises, I find it difficult to argue that we follow the "tank" model. It works for Toronto because their "vets" are mostly under 30 anyway. We didn't have that. We needed to establish hunger, tenacity, and leadership, and those qualities are best held by dudes in the 26-29 range. So the moves Benning made, again, were risky, but necessary. You can't expect to win every bet, period, and you can expect to win even less of them when you're operating from a basis of desperation. My advice to you is that you spend some time contextualizing the situation and try to grasp the historicity of it. If you can see that, you'll see the rationality behind these moves. And rationality is what leads to success. It may not be immediate, but it lasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 6 minutes ago, LaBamba said: You're going to sit here and tell me everything is perfect because Virtanen, Demko etc are going to be solid NHL players?! Based on what? According to at least 500 posts of the past you NEED to develop players in a winning environment. What does that say about where Virtanen, Tryamkin, and Demko are right now?! Everyone says Virtanen is going to be a star but there is just zero evidence backing that up. His career is in serious jeopardy right now and he needs to take a step back immediately. How about Demko?! A goalies game is all about confidence. How confident does he feel right now with the team in front of him?! Get your head out of the sand and take a look around Based on that they project to be NHL players. The same way other teams prospects do. Nobody said you NEED to do anything of the sort. It helps. As does having vets around to show prospects how to train, eat and generally compose themselves as pros. Virtanen is not going to implode (though I agree he'd presently likely be better off in Utica). Demko will be fine, especially as more of the guys Benning has drafted start showing up in the AHL. Such a drama queen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, J.R. said: Based on that they project to be NHL players. The same way other teams prospects do. Nobody said you NEED to do anything of the sort. It helps. As does having vets around to show prospects how to train, eat and generally compose themselves as pros. Virtanen is not going to implode (though I agree he'd presently likely be better off in Utica). Demko will be fine, especially as more of the guys Benning has drafted start showing up in the AHL. Such a drama queen... Do you want to know why I'm so pessimistic? Because I base my opinions on what I see. Everything you say is based on the best case scenario. A lot of dominant college goalies crumble in the Pros rather than flourish. I'm going to "wait and see" on Demko. What I have "seen" from Jake is concerning to say the least. Now ive got stuff to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Do you want to know why I'm so pessimistic? Because I base my opinions on what I see. Everything you say is based on the best case scenario. No it really isn't. Reality is based on what happens, not what you (or I) may project. I'm simply the one with the patience and temperance to let things play out. You are full blown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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