Our Plan Has Failed

[MaxVerstappen33]

14 minutes ago, CanadianRugby said:

Of course the plan has failed.  This team is supposed to be a playoff team, have a winning environment to show the rookies how to play.  But instead this is one of the worst teams in the league and there are no great rookies to teach either. 

 

As far as the clownshow that this season is.  CBC, Sportsnet, TSN, Team1040, ESPN, The Province, The Vancouver Sun, The National Post, The Hockey News, Yahoo Sports, Vegas Oddsmakers, Bleacher Report, and Vice News.. not to mention many hockey analysts all predicted this would happen and that this team needs to be blown up.  What's happening isn't a surprise at all unless you're a totally blind homer. 

 

This team should have been retooled after losing to LA in 5 games.  It's too late for a retool, time for a total rebuild.  Stop bringing in old overpaid vets, and trading 2nd rounders for players that can't make other teams. 

Haha the roster isn't even close to the worst in the league. We are way under achieving. Law of averages.

 

Sorry for not having a dramatic and sensationalist answer.

 

 

[RogersTowell]

11 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

No. All wrong.

 

This is the new NHL. Parody rules Every team takes turns having losing streaks. We are having an 8 game losing streak. We will probably have a 6-8 game winning streak this year while someone leaves "plan fails"

 

The results lately do not reflect the roster

Parody does rule, but that's the department of Player Safety.  Or is that Tragedy.

 

What you are talking about is parity.

[Neko]

13 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

No. All wrong.

 

This is the new NHL. Parody rules Every team takes turns having losing streaks. We are having an 8 game losing streak. We will probably have a 6-8 game winning streak this year while someone leaves "plan fails"

 

The results lately do not reflect the roster

You mean we have to follow EA Sports scripting now?

[LaBamba]

What plan? 

 

"We are going to get Bigger, faster and harder to play against."

 

Acquires: Vey, Clendening, Granlund, Vrbata, Bartowski. 

 

"We are going to get younger." 

 

That has stoped, we are the lowest scoring team in the league and 10th oldest. 

 

"We are going to win"

 

2015/16 3rd last, lost draft lottery 

2016 first 12 games shut out 4 times and held the lead once. 

 

"We are going to develop young players in a winning environment". 

 

We ain't a winning environment. Trades Utica eligible players Shinkurak, McCann, Forsling, Doesn't reclaim Etem to send down. Farm team in complete shambles. If developing players in a winning environment is so important you would think he would throw the farm team a bone or 2. Virtanen slowly dying because "we need his skill set now" For what? To finish 29th instead of 30th? You need him so bad for 7mins a game. 

 

"We want our players to be accountable" 

 

The only players who pay for their mistakes on this team are the young guys. That's not even debatable. 

 

The only plan that has come to fruition is "we want to be a more structured team"

 

I am convinced now that Benning hates goals. It is why he was part of shipping out Seguin. I'll bet you anything Shinkurak could have landed a high risk/ reward player like Yakupov for example. But no, let's get another defensively responsible forward. In a way I'm glad Virtanen isn't scoring because he would probably trade him and a 2nd round pick for a 23 year old pending RFA 3rd line checking centre to play wing on the 4th line. 

 

I don't even want to see people reply with a list of prospects that haven't proven anything, claiming how much younger we are than 5 years ago. Guess what? The entire league is younger than 5 years ago. Everyone has a bigger list of prospects. It's the way the league works now. 

 

Don't tell me to be patient either. Because the very essence of a "rebuild on the fly" or "speeding up the rebuild" is a lack in patience.  

 

 

[LaBamba]

44 minutes ago, LolClarkson said:

Haha the roster isn't even close to the worst in the league. We are way under achieving. Law of averages.

 

Sorry for not having a dramatic and sensationalist answer.

 

 

 

Do you realize we are a cap team? Dollar for dollar we are by farrrrr the worst team in the league. I can't even think of another team in the same category.

[xereau]

8 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

TL;DR: Benning's legacy will consist of a few things.

 

Here is Benning's real, and only legacy to date.

 

Breaking down Mike Gillis' new age country club.  The easy going atmosphere, the NTC's, the freaking sleep therapists.... all hippie garbage, and not conducive to a winning, hard nosed culture that is required in a what when boiled down, is a violent combat based sport.

[Chris]

It's funny, because we've still got at least another 2-4 seasons of sitting at the bottom of the league before we can even think about competition and half the fanbase has already abandoned the team, lol.

[Where'd Luongo?]

9 hours ago, asian player said:

     When Jim Benning took over in 2014, we had finally wrapped up the most painful season in recent memory. He was left with a decent core group of players, around $20 million in cap-space (iirc), and a very bare looking cupboard of prospects. Understandably, Benning decided to try his best to ice a competitive team while finding younger players through draft and trade. Whether you disagree with this philosophy or not, it was a legitimate plan and many teams have been successful with this recipe. 

 

     In his first season, he signed Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata to help the group we already had. Kesler was also traded for a package and this was the start of the transformation. We had 2 first round picks, our 2014 draft was a huge success. The team was definitely strong enough to compete for a playoff spot and so they decided to keep Horvat up. The Canucks made the playoffs that year and lost out to the Flames in the first round. While the playoffs was disappointing, almost everything went according to plan. Playoff experience was valuable for Bo and the loss helped us identify the weaknesses in the team. 

 

     The next season, we brought up 3 rookies and acquired Sven Baertschi. It was not difficult to tell Bonino was a little slow and bit small to play that 2C position. Benning traded Bonino for Sutter to solidify the position and recognized him as a "foundational player". Everything at this point looked like it was going according to plan. We were icing a competitive team while slowly inserting our youth into the lineup. However as the season went on, our players were dropping like flies. We were forced to rush Bo into a position we did not expect we had to. With all the injuries, we finished the season close to last and we ended up drafting a very solid defenseman. 

 

    In the summer of 2016, Jim took a look at where we were as a team. He thought last year was simply unlucky as we had many of our core guys injured. He decided to trade McCann for Gudbranson to bolster our back end. Again, we slowly worked our rookies into the lineup with Gaunce, Tryamkin and a bit of Stecher. After our quick 3-0 start, we have lost every game after that and it seems like we can't seem to buy a goal. 

 

Now, looking at where we are as a team right now, are we still going according to plan? Obviously, things could quickly turn around and we could even make the playoffs. However, it just seems unlikely. It's clear we have a very weak forward group. If by trade deadline we are still struggling, shouldn't we adjust to what is happening? If we are no longer winning, we are no longer developing our youth in a winning environment. At this point, it does not seem like there are many options for us in terms of bringing in help. Our youth are suffering in a losing culture right now. Right now, we have several players that will be young enough to compete for the next cup push. Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Stecher, Hutton, Gaunce, Tryamkin, Gudbranson are all young. Additionally, we have 3 top tier prospects as well as several very promising kids in the minors. Should we flip some of our guys for draft picks or young players like Vrana? 

 

TL;DR: If we are no longer bringing up our young players in a winning culture, things are not going according to plan. If we are losing regardless, should we move some of our guys for picks or younger players? 

Yes.

[BowtieCanuck]

27 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

Do you realize we are a cap team? Dollar for dollar we are by farrrrr the worst team in the league. I can't even think of another team in the same category.

Exactly. Once you begin to clear that cap space that is dead weight, there is going to be plenty of money to spend money on the right players. If this team is going to go anywhere in the next 10 years, it's going to have to be bought and not built in that time period. I think Benning's picks are mostly going to pan out (like Burke before him), but he won't be around to be there to see it through.

Honestly, the upcoming expansion draft is going to help this team more than hurt it.

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said:

Exactly. Once you begin to clear that cap space that is dead weight, there is going to be plenty of money to spend money on the right players. If this team is going to go anywhere in the next 10 years, it's going to have to be bought and not built in that time period. I think Benning's picks are mostly going to pan out (like Burke before him), but he won't be around to be there to see it through.

Honestly, the upcoming expansion draft is going to help this team more than hurt it.

 

We don't need to spend money on players. We need to draft and develop our own players then reward those players with lucrative contracts. LE's contract could easily displace a young player from our lineup, just like what happened in Chicago only with no stanley cups or even playoff appearances. 

[BowtieCanuck]

9 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

We don't need to spend money on players. We need to draft and develop our own players then reward those players with lucrative contracts. LE's contract could easily displace a young player from our lineup, just like what happened in Chicago only with no stanley cups or even playoff appearances. 

 

It would be nice if that was an assured way to make your team better, but its a gamble. Chicago is just as good as they have been even while losing great prospects and thats because they had nearly a decade and a half to draft and build a team. Their market allowed for them to do that. Thats an incredibly tough sell here.

We as a fanbase need to stop looking at players over the age of 29 as past their prime. 20 years ago, players were in their prime at 30. Also, why are we throwing LE under the bus after a handful of games? He always starts off slow before turning on the goal scoring.

[aGENT]

Seems to me the plan is moving along largely as expected. 

 

I'm sure the team would like to be winning a few more of the close games than losing them but otherwise, pretty much on track with what I expected. 

 

But yes, if we're well out of the playoffs by the TDL, it makes it far easier to move a few vets. 

 

The rebuild continues. 

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, BowtieCanuck said:

 

It would be nice if that was an assured way to make your team better, but its a gamble. Chicago is just as good as they have been even while losing great prospects and thats because they had nearly a decade and a half to draft and build a team. Their market allowed for them to do that. Thats an incredibly tough sell here.

We as a fanbase need to stop looking at players over the age of 29 as past their prime. 20 years ago, players were in their prime at 30. Also, why are we throwing LE under the bus after a handful of games? He always starts off slow before turning on the goal scoring.

 

I didn't  like the LE contract from the second it was signed. It's horrific. The last 2-3 years of it will be detrimental. We could finally be in a position to start climbing the standings and making some noise by then. It's going to be hard to make moves with that huge 6m cap hit on a 35-36 year old forward. Your going to have a Demko or Markstrom, Juolevi, Boeser, Horvat, Gudbranson, Hutton, Stecher, Tanev, Virtanen's +++ contracts crossing paths with that albatross. We will be waiting for that contract to die, just like Burrows and Higgins. I guaranty you it will result in 1 or more of our good young players being moved for picks and prospects. It will handicap us from fine tuning our young and ready to win core on July 1st. It's so ugly. 

[aGENT]

Just now, LaBamba said:

 

I didn't  like the LE contract from the second it was signed. It's horrific. The last 2-3 years of it will be detrimental. We could finally be in a position to start climbing the standings and making some noise by then. It's going to be hard to make moves with that huge 6m cap hit on a 35-36 year old forward. Your going to have a Demko or Markstrom, Juolevi, Boeser, Horvat, Gudbranson, Hutton, Stecher, Tanev, Virtanen's +++ contracts crossing paths with that albatross. We will be waiting for that contract to die, just like Burrows and Higgins. I guaranty you it will result in 1 or more of our good young players being moved for picks and prospects. It will handicap us from fine tuning our young and ready to win core on July 1st. It's so ugly. 

 

Yeah, the last couple years will likely be a PITA. But he wasn't signing for 4 years so...

 

Worst case we buyout or trade with salary retention. If we luck out, he'll still be a decent 3rd liner those last couple years (albeit an expensive one).

[Honky Cat]

Sutter,Baertschi,Granlund,Eriksson......only 3 goals between them in 12 games....Wow.!...Who could have predicted that?

[Dazzle]

10 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

So you are putting a lot of the onus on Jim Benning.  If there was one thing I really don't like about him, it is his arrogance or pride.  I sometimes feel as though he is too proud to admit his mistakes, and puts pressure on the coach and team to make sure his vision becomes reality.  I think he pressured WD to continue playing Vey and Virtanen.  He decided to not pull any trades last deadline because he did not feel like he was getting a fair deal.  He did not re-claim Emerson Etem even though he had every right and cause to do so.  

 

There's always other sides to this argument but he is definitely stubborn and probably very arrogant.  Now the team is paying the price.

 

You could say the same about Gillis with those exact sentences.

 

Etem would not have saved this team. We traded for him in exchange for Jensen (who wasn't doing anything for us). Not claiming Etem is not a mistake. He's a former first round pick that isn't doing anything for anybody, including Anaheim (who waived him after the fact, as you know). Etem is currently toiling in the AHL.

 

What makes you think that WD got pressured to play Vey? You do realize that the discussion was that WD was tending to favour players that were previously coached by him (playing favourites). Virtanen is not getting the ice time he needs for development. In fact, he was getting reduced minutes because of players like Vey.

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

 

We don't need to spend money on players. We need to draft and develop our own players then reward those players with lucrative contracts. LE's contract could easily displace a young player from our lineup, just like what happened in Chicago only with no stanley cups or even playoff appearances. 

 

The risk of 'developing our own players' is that you end up being like Edmonton. Their team looks better this season, but they squandered a 1st overall and wasted several of the young players' time doing that bottom feeding circus.

[Dazzle]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

What plan? 

 

"We are going to get Bigger, faster and harder to play against."

 

Acquires: Vey, Clendening, Granlund, Vrbata, Bartowski. 

 

"We are going to get younger." 

 

That has stoped, we are the lowest scoring team in the league and 10th oldest. 

 

"We are going to win"

 

2015/16 3rd last, lost draft lottery 

2016 first 12 games shut out 4 times and held the lead once. 

 

"We are going to develop young players in a winning environment". 

 

We ain't a winning environment. Trades Utica eligible players Shinkurak, McCann, Forsling, Doesn't reclaim Etem to send down. Farm team in complete shambles. If developing players in a winning environment is so important you would think he would throw the farm team a bone or 2. Virtanen slowly dying because "we need his skill set now" For what? To finish 29th instead of 30th? You need him so bad for 7mins a game. 

 

"We want our players to be accountable" 

 

The only players who pay for their mistakes on this team are the young guys. That's not even debatable. 

 

The only plan that has come to fruition is "we want to be a more structured team"

 

I am convinced now that Benning hates goals. It is why he was part of shipping out Seguin. I'll bet you anything Shinkurak could have landed a high risk/ reward player like Yakupov for example. But no, let's get another defensively responsible forward. In a way I'm glad Virtanen isn't scoring because he would probably trade him and a 2nd round pick for a 23 year old pending RFA 3rd line checking centre to play wing on the 4th line. 

 

I don't even want to see people reply with a list of prospects that haven't proven anything, claiming how much younger we are than 5 years ago. Guess what? The entire league is younger than 5 years ago. Everyone has a bigger list of prospects. It's the way the league works now. 

 

Don't tell me to be patient either. Because the very essence of a "rebuild on the fly" or "speeding up the rebuild" is a lack in patience.  

 

 

 

You are one of the more prolific posters that have knee-jerked front, back, left, right and center in every aspect of the Canucks. You make it sound like you are one of the most patient people on this board. Ha.

[LaBamba]

7 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

 

You are one of the more prolific posters that have knee-jerked front, back, left, right and center in every aspect of the Canucks. You make it sound like you are one of the most patient people on this board. Ha.

 

I dont think impatient or knee jerk is really how I would describe my antics. I am pretty persistently miserable. Words like unreasonable, volatile, arrogant, self absorbed, contradicting, predatory, and generally misinformed would be how I would discribe my posts. I literally make things up and call them facts on a pretty consistent basis. To call me knee jerk isn't accurate. I'm like this win or lose.  

 

Do you still have your flasher dude  sig? 

[Team Bagues]

I fail to see any arrogance in either JB or TL - maybe confident, but not arrogant...

They seem pretty humble and even-keeled to me...

Maybe they could use a bit more arrogance; or truculence???

But arrogant, I think not....