nuck-lifer Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 7 minutes ago, Team Bagues said: I fail to see any arrogance in either JB or TL - maybe confident, but not arrogant... They seem pretty humble and even-keeled to me... Maybe they could use a bit more arrogance; or truculence??? But arrogant, I think not.... Agreed. Linden's a GM's president JB a coaches GM Willies a players coach However this is part of the problem, you want to well liked by the people directly under your supervision, but still need to make the tough decisions when the timing is right to do so. JB and TL are good as the faces of the organization but they should have people under them with more NHL VP , and asst GM experience under their belts since they're all rookies in their current positions. Bringing in Jarvis was a good move with that reasoning, so I hope they bring in better support in upper management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davathor Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 Where's @Hutton Wink to point out we actually started 4-0. It's his favourite thing to do besides correcting people's spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 11 hours ago, asian player said: correct, it is not even comparable. NCAA is much higher level of competition. lol.. a league full of under 21 where majority doesn't even get drafted nor signed is higher level of competition than the AHL where 1/3-1/2 the team are NHL prospects, and the rest fringe NHL and career AHL? ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackBeard Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 we had a chance to turn in around past 2014 and 2016 drafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neko Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 I'd start with getting rid of Willie and seeing if the team improves with a new coach, too early to say Benning should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 10 hours ago, Twilight Sparkle said: speaking of coaches who develop young players, call me crazy, but i actually loved how hartley ran the flames' young guys while he was there. he did it all-- let them play but also showed them tough love when they needed it, and he really made that a pretty threatening club to play against because he knew what those kids were capable of, because, whether people like bob hartley or not, he was an NHL coach. i have flames fans friends who werent happy when hartley got canned, and they're even more pissed off that they have gulutzen, because he's just not an NHL level coach, and was canucks spare parts. the flames have all the talent in the world, and they shouldn't be shut out 5-0; embarrassed by an injury-riddled LA kings team. upper management ****s up, and the only people who really suffer, are the fans Yea Hartley is a guy who has plenty of NHL experience and learned from it. He motivated those guys quite well, broke the season down into 7 game chunks. Montreal fired guys like AV and Julien only to have them go on to major success elsewhere. Heck look at Sullivan a Torts disciple completely changing his strategies and winning the cup with the Pens. Willie is a rookie and overwhelmed right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 3 hours ago, BowtieCanuck said: Exactly. Once you begin to clear that cap space that is dead weight, there is going to be plenty of money to spend money on the right players. If this team is going to go anywhere in the next 10 years, it's going to have to be bought and not built in that time period. I think Benning's picks are mostly going to pan out (like Burke before him), but he won't be around to be there to see it through. Honestly, the upcoming expansion draft is going to help this team more than hurt it. Agree 100℅ on happening sooner than later. Once our young guys mature and we have stable, effective depth as a foundation, we're going to have to buy top producers that can put us over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 13 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: So you are putting a lot of the onus on Jim Benning. If there was one thing I really don't like about him, it is his arrogance or pride. I sometimes feel as though he is too proud to admit his mistakes, and puts pressure on the coach and team to make sure his vision becomes reality. I think he pressured WD to continue playing Vey and Virtanen. He decided to not pull any trades last deadline because he did not feel like he was getting a fair deal. He did not re-claim Emerson Etem even though he had every right and cause to do so. There's always other sides to this argument but he is definitely stubborn and probably very arrogant. Now the team is paying the price. From the guy who has his law firm as his sig, he's saying Benning is arrogant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 4 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said: Agree 100℅ on happening sooner than later. Once our young guys mature and we have stable, effective depth as a foundation, we're going to have to buy top producers that can put us over the top. Brian Burke and Dave Nonis built a very good young core, which Mike Gillis was gifted. I'm thinking if JB is fired, the guy who follows will be gifted much like Gillis was - with a very good young core. GMs, who are building from the bottom up, need ten years to complete the job - not 3-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 12 hours ago, Bob.Loblaw said: That seems pretty much in line with my post. Benning... never does anything. It's the story of his time here. Prospects struggling after nine games? Leave them. Trade deadline? Make excuses. Reclaim Etem? Nope. Mistakes made? Never! Exactly!!! Jes been talking about acquiring a 20 goal guy for 2 years now!!! Canucks are always reported as being interested in various players but always strike out due to lack of assets to offer without hurting themselves. This is a bad hockey team and will continue to be bad until they have something other than Boeser playing for them. They need a Nolan Patrick or whoever a high end offensive center who can create offense and finish too forget trying to make every guy a 2 way player and draft more guys like Boeser who have consistent 30 goal and 60 plus points potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 1 hour ago, SaintPatrick33 said: Yea Hartley is a guy who has plenty of NHL experience and learned from it. He motivated those guys quite well, broke the season down into 7 game chunks. Montreal fired guys like AV and Julien only to have them go on to major success elsewhere. Heck look at Sullivan a Torts disciple completely changing his strategies and winning the cup with the Pens. Willie is a rookie and overwhelmed right now. The head coach options of guys with experience are slim. You got Hartley ew, Retread Marc Crawford or Euro coach Ralph don't call me Freddy Krueger. Cringe list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said: The head coach options of guys with experience are slim. You got Hartley ew, Retread Marc Crawford or Euro coach Ralph don't call me Freddy Krueger. Cringe list. No doubt about that. Would have loved to get Boudreau, but the timing was not right. Hard to see any big name coaches wanting to come here right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Boudreau Posted November 6, 2016 Share Posted November 6, 2016 2 minutes ago, SaintPatrick33 said: No doubt about that. Would have loved to get Boudreau, but the timing was not right. Hard to see any big name coaches wanting to come here right now. How about John Stevens on the Kings or Bug eyed walrus in Anahiem Paul MacLean? Hard to trust guys with moustaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 5 hours ago, Dazzle said: You could say the same about Gillis with those exact sentences. Etem would not have saved this team. We traded for him in exchange for Jensen (who wasn't doing anything for us). Not claiming Etem is not a mistake. He's a former first round pick that isn't doing anything for anybody, including Anaheim (who waived him after the fact, as you know). Etem is currently toiling in the AHL. What makes you think that WD got pressured to play Vey? You do realize that the discussion was that WD was tending to favour players that were previously coached by him (playing favourites). Virtanen is not getting the ice time he needs for development. In fact, he was getting reduced minutes because of players like Vey. That is why Gillis got fired with much fanfare. A lot of people were happy to see him go. They are different and yet they are the same. I think it takes a certain level of confidence and even cockiness to succeed in a cutthroat environment like the NHL. It is not a fair and reasonable workplace. I don't think anyone would describe our immediate future as hopeful. Half of the fans here want Jim Benning fired and half of them want Willie Desjardins fired. Neither of them have done exceptionally well by any means, and there is definitely blame to be assigned here. Who to blame is up to the individual, but I wouldn't be surprised if the coach gets fired mid-season or the GM gets fired over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 17 minutes ago, Bob.Loblaw said: Half of the fans here want Jim Benning fired and half of them want Willie Desjardins fired. I don't want either of those things. What 'half' does that put me in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 Just now, J.R. said: I don't want either of those things. What 'half' does that put me in? The missing half: the half wits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, J.R. said: I don't want either of those things. What 'half' does that put me in? If half of sample size X wants A and the other half of X wants B and you don't want either, then the only logical conclusion is you're not part of the sample size. So based on the original poster's post, he doesn't think you're a fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 16 hours ago, asian player said: When Jim Benning took over in 2014, we had finally wrapped up the most painful season in recent memory. He was left with a decent core group of players, around $20 million in cap-space (iirc), and a very bare looking cupboard of prospects. Understandably, Benning decided to try his best to ice a competitive team while finding younger players through draft and trade. Whether you disagree with this philosophy or not, it was a legitimate plan and many teams have been successful with this recipe. In his first season, he signed Ryan Miller and Radim Vrbata to help the group we already had. Kesler was also traded for a package and this was the start of the transformation. We had 2 first round picks, our 2014 draft was a huge success. The team was definitely strong enough to compete for a playoff spot and so they decided to keep Horvat up. The Canucks made the playoffs that year and lost out to the Flames in the first round. While the playoffs was disappointing, almost everything went according to plan. Playoff experience was valuable for Bo and the loss helped us identify the weaknesses in the team. The next season, we brought up 3 rookies and acquired Sven Baertschi. It was not difficult to tell Bonino was a little slow and bit small to play that 2C position. Benning traded Bonino for Sutter to solidify the position and recognized him as a "foundational player". Everything at this point looked like it was going according to plan. We were icing a competitive team while slowly inserting our youth into the lineup. However as the season went on, our players were dropping like flies. We were forced to rush Bo into a position we did not expect we had to. With all the injuries, we finished the season close to last and we ended up drafting a very solid defenseman. In the summer of 2016, Jim took a look at where we were as a team. He thought last year was simply unlucky as we had many of our core guys injured. He decided to trade McCann for Gudbranson to bolster our back end. Again, we slowly worked our rookies into the lineup with Gaunce, Tryamkin and a bit of Stecher. After our quick 3-0 start, we have lost every game after that and it seems like we can't seem to buy a goal. Now, looking at where we are as a team right now, are we still going according to plan? Obviously, things could quickly turn around and we could even make the playoffs. However, it just seems unlikely. It's clear we have a very weak forward group. If by trade deadline we are still struggling, shouldn't we adjust to what is happening? If we are no longer winning, we are no longer developing our youth in a winning environment. At this point, it does not seem like there are many options for us in terms of bringing in help. Our youth are suffering in a losing culture right now. Right now, we have several players that will be young enough to compete for the next cup push. Horvat, Baertschi, Virtanen, Stecher, Hutton, Gaunce, Tryamkin, Gudbranson are all young. Additionally, we have 3 top tier prospects as well as several very promising kids in the minors. Should we flip some of our guys for draft picks or young players like Vrana? TL;DR: If we are no longer bringing up our young players in a winning culture, things are not going according to plan. If we are losing regardless, should we move some of our guys for picks or younger players? What was the plan, do you have a copy of it? Or are you just on here whining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Bob.Loblaw Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 11 minutes ago, J.R. said: I don't want either of those things. What 'half' does that put me in? I honestly don't know. The half that is blindly loyal to the franchise and their personnel? With respect, I'm not sure why you still support them. They have put themselves and the team in a position where the hockey pundits predicted we'd place near the bottom. The fans were so convinced that they were wrong, and that this is a playoff-bound team. This team is mostly healthy right now. Do they look playoff-bound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, vinny_in_vancouver said: So based on the original poster's post, he doesn't think you're a fan. Clearly I'm not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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