oldnews Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 15 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Thanks for handpicking all the fast big players and neglecting the Vey's Sorry - I'm living in the current (and I don't expect every move to work out) - certainly not every pick does. Maybe Benning's spoiling folks with the impression that 2 or 3 draftees every year should make the NHL. That aint reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 9 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: That's right. The real question is, will Sutter and Gudbranson still be around and if so, will they be an effective part of the core? I defended both moves at the time, because I thought the answer to both questions would be yes, but there's certainly a long way to go before this team starts to look like a true contender. Sutter's already under an extension and Gubranson is an RFA. They'll be here for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 10 minutes ago, oldnews said: Sorry - I'm living in the current Its a pretty dark place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 19 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: That's right. The real question is, will Sutter and Gudbranson still be around and if so, will they be an effective part of the core? I defended both moves at the time, because I thought the answer to both questions would be yes, but there's certainly a long way to go before this team starts to look like a true contender. Defensive specialists like Suter and net clearers like Gudbransen are valuable pieces to any team. There's no problems with them, they aren't projected as offensive guys and shouldn't be counted on doing so. It is debatable that Bonino would be a better offensive player than Suter.. Which on this team I'm not so sure... Anyways this team needs Baertschi and Horvat to start producing like second-line players, AND this team needs a couple of surprises next year from players like Boeser, Zhukenov, Lockwood, Gaudette, etc. quite a bit to expect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 [endthread]It's far too early to say if 'the plan' has failed. Get back to me in ~3 years.[/endthread] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 34 minutes ago, goblix said: Defensive specialists like Suter and net clearers like Gudbransen are valuable pieces to any team. There's no problems with them, they aren't projected as offensive guys and shouldn't be counted on doing so. It is debatable that Bonino would be a better offensive player than Suter.. Which on this team I'm not so sure... Anyways this team needs Baertschi and Horvat to start producing like second-line players, AND this team needs a couple of surprises next year from players like Boeser, Zhukenov, Lockwood, Gaudette, etc. quite a bit to expect This team needs Baertschi, Virtanen and Horvat (especially Bear & Virt) to start playing more minutes. We still put way too much pressure on the Sedins to carry this team. I don't see the harm in giving it a chance. What's the worst that could happen? We lose 5 in a row and are at the bottom of the standings? Go 3 games barely scoring a goal? I think it's time for Willie to try something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 minute ago, The Sedge said: This team needs Baertschi, Virtanen and Horvat (especially Bear & Virt) to start playing more minutes. We still put way too much pressure on the Sedins to carry this team. I don't see the harm in giving it a chance. What's the worst that could happen? We lose 5 in a row and are at the bottom of the standings? Go 3 games barely scoring a goal? I think it's time for Willie to try something new. Yah I do agree that we're losing while playing vets more so why not play the young guys... Baertschi is getting 15minutes on most nights, which is alright not great. I think i'd like Virtanen to goto Utica for a while, maybe until the trade deadline where the choice has been made in it's finality. Our offensive woes is frustrating but the season is not quite out of reach. Honestly not many trades occur until the deadline anyways so we are kinda stuck in status quo.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Crossbar Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Alflives said: Winning is a long way off for us. We need to be patient, and allow the young guys JB is bringing on board to develop. Boeser is a very key piece. Don't disagree with you. To me, winning doesn't have to be another seven years. They could take a different approach and next season they'll have money. If the decisions are to primarily develop and draft, well, yeah, we don't have much choice but to have patience. But there's also been three years of talk about remaining competitive, trying to make playoffs, or win now on some level. The retool on the fly stance from management created a certain expectation with the fan base. This is where the problem lies between patience and expectation. There are two messages at play at the same time - be patient but we're trying to win now. They're clashing. When fans were being asked to buy into that, I don't think anyone thought retool on the fly meant an entire decade. So, on one hand, sure, I can have patience for young guys to develop. But on the other, no, you made moves to win now as well, so you should be doing that. Interestingly, I saw an interview with the Sedins today (TSN article) and they said they're expecting (and need) the young players to step up, to play bigger roles and to take over. That's what they're looking for. They're actually relying on the young guys now. Not later but now. The leaders on our team are not thinking five or ten years from now. Thought it was an interesting glimpse into locker room expectations and mindset. If that remain competitive, playoffs, win now is still on the table ... sure, I can have patience this year. At year four, though, with contracts and money being freed up, Benning should be taking a huge leap forward to make good on the retool on the fly. Moves in year four and five should be reflective of a retool on the fly to complete the plan. We're now in year three. If the plan is to ask fans to wait and lose for another six or seven years, that's a different plan. Benning should be busier than ever next offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekey Pete Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 41 minutes ago, goblix said: Yah I do agree that we're losing while playing vets more so why not play the young guys... Baertschi is getting 15minutes on most nights, which is alright not great. I think i'd like Virtanen to goto Utica for a while, maybe until the trade deadline where the choice has been made in it's finality. Our offensive woes is frustrating but the season is not quite out of reach. Honestly not many trades occur until the deadline anyways so we are kinda stuck in status quo.. Right now the Sedins are averaging more minutes then they have the year before, at 36 years old... it doesn't make any sense. In fact, the game against Toronto their minutes were down pretty significantly (Danny injured I know) but guess what? they produced points. Sven is averaging just over 14 minutes a game, and Horvat 16:40. Virtanen needs more minutes too, he's averaging just 10. I get sheltering the new guys as they adjust to the NHL, but all three of them have spent 1+ season in the NHL and know the ropes. They need to be given the minutes to succeed, or go to Utica for development. I want to see Horvat/Sven getting closer to 18 minutes a game, and Virt at 15+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 If the plan is to make the playoffs this year, well that's looking far far away. By the 20 game point JB should be looking to build for next season and not to give up any assets of value to Las Vegas. Miller has been playing real Gud. Hansen dido, Tanev/Edler are possible targets. If players are coming back the other way, they must be young and have decent projections. That being said, More picks for JB at the draft is also very enticing. One thing we do have, good young solid guys that will become our next core. Horvat and Guds are future captians. Virtannen needs time but I am still optimistic. Boeser, Demko Juolevi are leading the prospects and they are blue chip. At 20 games I will look to next year if things have not turned around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Shotgun Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 58 minutes ago, The Sedge said: I think it's time for Willie to try something new. Willie try something new? He probably still drives an Edsel. Doesn't trust the new models like a '65 Rambler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJDDawg Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 1 hour ago, goblix said: Defensive specialists like Suter and net clearers like Gudbransen are valuable pieces to any team. There's no problems with them, they aren't projected as offensive guys and shouldn't be counted on doing so. It is debatable that Bonino would be a better offensive player than Suter.. Which on this team I'm not so sure... Anyways this team needs Baertschi and Horvat to start producing like second-line players, AND this team needs a couple of surprises next year from players like Boeser, Zhukenov, Lockwood, Gaudette, etc. quite a bit to expect Definitely. Don't really know if Boeser will be NHL ready next year or in two years. The other three will be longer if they make it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxVerstappen33 Posted November 7, 2016 Share Posted November 7, 2016 3 hours ago, Team Bagues said: I agree that it will be nice getting close to 18 million off the books to help build this team moving forward, but it seems to me that in normal circumstances the 18 million would go to players developed from within. Sadly we don't really have the young guys yet good enough to make that kind of cash. It would be nice to think that 18 million would buy us a 1C, or a whole first line, but going by this year's UFA frenzy, I'm not sure a 1C moved anywhere, and of the first line wingers trading places I am not sure that any of them would really help us. Here's a few players, if hypothetically we had the 18 million this past off-season, we could have had, but I'm not sure any of them would help fill in the holes on the 1st or 2nd lines: 1. Boedker - 4M/4 yrs 2. Brouwer - 4.5M/4yrs 3. Backes - 6M/5yrs 4. Okposo - 6M/7yrs 5. Eriksson - 6M/6yrs (so far so good.....) 6. Lucic - 6M/7yrs 7. Ladd - 5.5M/7yrs Regardless, patience is going to be at a premium moving forward. The goaltending is looking up, the defence is looking up, in my mind the greatest organizational need is a 1C. This may take the work of wizards or political spinsters though given our current trading assets. John Tavers. It all comes down to JT JT is a FA when the Sedins retire. We could offer him 14 million right off the hop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorevat Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 On 11/6/2016 at 1:30 AM, wai_lai416 said: lol that's not the minor league.. competition level is not even comparable You said other than boeser who'ss in the NCAA n so are the other two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 16 hours ago, goblix said: Defensive specialists like Suter and net clearers like Gudbransen are valuable pieces to any team. There's no problems with them, they aren't projected as offensive guys and shouldn't be counted on doing so. It is debatable that Bonino would be a better offensive player than Suter.. Which on this team I'm not so sure... Anyways this team needs Baertschi and Horvat to start producing like second-line players, AND this team needs a couple of surprises next year from players like Boeser, Zhukenov, Lockwood, Gaudette, etc. quite a bit to expect This is beside the point I was making. The discussion was about the merits of moving younger players for more established (but still fairly young) players, in an effort to be more competitive at the present. In the case of Sutter, the Canucks didn't get older, so I was okay with the deal. Gudbranson is only 24 and filled an area of need that the Canucks had been lacking for several years, (since Willie left, IMO) so I was happy with that deal as well. However, if the Canucks take longer than expected to turn things around, (and there's reason to believe that a five year plan is going to morph into a seven year plan, or more) it may be the case that both Sutter and Gudbranson are either no longer with the team by the time the turnaround happens, or no longer an effective part of the core. That being the case, it could be argued that the team would have been better off to move Bonino and Clendening for picks and hung onto McCann, instead of trading him to Florida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblix Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said: This is beside the point I was making. The discussion was about the merits of moving younger players for more established (but still fairly young) players, in an effort to be more competitive at the present. In the case of Sutter, the Canucks didn't get older, so I was okay with the deal. Gudbranson is only 24 and filled an area of need that the Canucks had been lacking for several years, (since Willie left, IMO) so I was happy with that deal as well. However, if the Canucks take longer than expected to turn things around, (and there's reason to believe that a five year plan is going to morph into a seven year plan, or more) it may be the case that both Sutter and Gudbranson are either no longer with the team by the time the turnaround happens, or no longer an effective part of the core. That being the case, it could be argued that the team would have been better off to move Bonino and Clendening for picks and hung onto McCann, instead of trading him to Florida. True, that said even in a 5 year rebuild plan those 2 would be valuable veteran pieces when the youngins' get going. So it's not like Benning mortgaged the future with these trades. The gripe is that he hasn't collected enough draft picks which is valid. The main misses were how badly they handled Hamhuis and Vrbata at the deadline. Benning and co needed to make a faster decision on that. We'll see how this year goes anyways. A fail at the trade deadline would call out for an immediate fire in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frogger009 Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 There hasn't been a "Plan" since Gillis left. One minute we are building for the future, the next we are trying to retool and stay competitive. We send draft picks out like candy, accumulate 3rd line grinders and 4th defensemen like they are in style and trade away our first round picks. This team is a joke and unless we get a management team and coach who actually want to rebuild we will be a joke for many more years. Gillis took a weak team and built the best team in the NHL in 4 years. The 2011 Canucks led the NHL in basically everything and SHOULD have won the Stanley Cup if not for injuries and the worst reffed Finals in the history of Finals. You could tell the NHL wanted Boston to win in the ECF when Tampa's Power Play was shredding the Bruins... so in Game 7 the Lightning were given 0 Power Plays. But I digress.. Canucks suck and will keep sucking with the jokers driving the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 We had a plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 A fanbase in general that's just itching to see and declare failure. Hard to feel bad for it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 8, 2016 Share Posted November 8, 2016 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: We had a plan? The plan's moving along just fine. Too bad that so many are too busy bitching and to bother trying to see what is actually happening before their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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