Our Plan Has Failed

[Dr. Crossbar]

56 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We drafted the Twins in '99, and then Kelser in '03, then got Luongo by trading a fourth overall pick Dman in '06.  Then we got really good in what 2009 or so?  That building took 10 years for us to really be a Cup competitive team.  Then we were really good for 3 to 5 years.  Now we need to go through the process again.  The biggest flaw with this current rebuild is we don't have the elite replacements for the Twins' offence.  They were consistent 80+ point guys during our best seasons.  Maybe Boeser is one?  Maybe we get one more at the coming draft?

The only way I see this working out sooner is if Boeser can step in and have a major, immediate impact as a rookie scorer and Benning makes major moves in the offseason that can accelerate the process over 2-3 years. 

 

Boeser and the players we add in the offseason are the lynchpins to any type of quicker turnaround. For any acceleration after this year, he's still going to have to buy and trade for legitimate 1st and 2nd line producers over the next couple years. 

 

If he drafts a Top 3 forward next offseason, we may be able to stay on an accelerated 2-3 path. Benning can win while he's here but the gap to thread that needle is getting more narrow. His moves will need to be precise.

 

Next offseason is critical. If he doesn't drastically improve this team and make bold moves, we're on the 10-year plan and there's no way he'll be here to see it through.

[LaBamba]

4 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

No it really isn't. Reality is based on what happens, not what you (or I) may project.

 

I'm simply the one with the patience and temperance to let things play out. You are full blown 

 

Haha let's things play out by calling Demko and Virtanen solid NHLers.

 

You are so fascinating to be honest. Like I said before. A pharmaceutical company needs to study your brain chemistry. A scientific breakthrough to suppress trauma awaits. 

[Team Bagues]

16 hours ago, BowtieCanuck said:

So you can't win an argument so now we're playing the Clarkson comparison game? Do you like arguing or are you stubborn?

The point is there is almost a third of the salary cap sitting on the bench near retirement. You clear up that much cap space, and its not hard to entice the right players to help this team transition into its next winning period.

I agree that it will be nice getting close to 18 million off the books to help build this team moving forward, but it seems to me that in normal circumstances the 18 million would go to players developed from within. Sadly we don't really have the young guys yet good enough to make that kind of cash.

It would be nice to think that 18 million would buy us a 1C, or a whole first line, but going by this year's UFA frenzy, I'm not sure a 1C moved anywhere, and of the first line wingers trading places I am not sure that any of them would really help us.

Here's a few players, if hypothetically we had the 18 million this past off-season, we could have had, but I'm not sure any of them would help fill in the holes on the 1st or 2nd lines:

1. Boedker - 4M/4 yrs

2. Brouwer - 4.5M/4yrs

3. Backes - 6M/5yrs

4. Okposo - 6M/7yrs

5. Eriksson - 6M/6yrs (so far so good.....)

6. Lucic - 6M/7yrs

7. Ladd - 5.5M/7yrs

Regardless, patience is going to be at a premium moving forward.

The goaltending is looking up, the defence is looking up, in my mind the greatest organizational need is a 1C. This may take the work of wizards or political spinsters though given our current trading assets.

[aGENT]

13 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

 

Haha let's things play out by calling Demko and Virtanen solid NHLers.

 

You are so fascinating to be honest. Like I said before. A pharmaceutical company needs to study your brain chemistry. A scientific breakthrough to suppress trauma awaits. 

I aid they look to be/project to be, not that they are. 

[LaBamba]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

Virtanen, McCann (now Gudbranson), Demko, Tryamkin, Forsling (Sutter), Petit, Stewart.

 

That's 5 pretty likely NHL'ers in one draft. Two of whom we've turned in to high quality, young solid NHL'ers

 

[aGENT]

@LaBamba

 

*Note thew words pretty and likely. Nowhere did I say they were guaranteed future hall of fame NHL'ers as you seem to want to assert.

[RUPERTKBD]

I think it's certainly too soon to cal the plan a "failure", but it isn't looking great right now. If the plan was to get younger, faster, bigger and stronger, all while "remaining competitive", I'd say we're batting below the Mendoza line.

 

The fact is, it's hard to know if that was really the "plan" all along. There is evidence to suggest that it was, (I honestly can't remember if there were direct quotes from JB or Trevor) but there's been moves made that seem to counter that philosophy.

 

FTR, I hated the "plan" from the get-go and said so at the time. (To much CDC derision, BTW) IMHO, we should have embraced a true rebuild in 2014, rather than sign Miller and Vrbata in an attempt to make the playoffs. The Canucks passed on the chance to draft the best player to come along since Sidney Crosby, all for the dubious benefit of an embarrassing loss to Calgary in the first round of the playoffs.

 

I am happy with Juolevi, (although I would have been happier with Laine or Matthews) and I think it's a small step in the right direction.

 

I didn't think much of signing Eriksson, but honestly, I didn't see him making a big difference in the fortunes of this team, so it's kind of a "whatever" move. It's not my money, so if the Aquilini's are okay with spending it....

 

I do agree somewhat with LaBamba though, that contract could be an Albatross by year 4, so hopefully buyouts are still on the table when it happens.

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, J.R. said:

@LaBamba

 

*Note thew words pretty and likely. Nowhere did I say they were guaranteed future hall of fame NHL'ers as you seem to want to assert.

 

Haha look at you JR your doing the same think you accused me of hahah future NHL hall of famers? Hahah. You entertain the hell out of me. 

[aGENT]

Just now, LaBamba said:

 

Haha look at you JR your doing the same think you accused me of hahah future NHL hall of famers? Hahah. You entertain the hell out of me. 

 

It was sarcasm LB 

[Alflives]

36 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

The only way I see this working out sooner is if Boeser can step in and have a major, immediate impact as a rookie scorer and Benning makes major moves in the offseason that can accelerate the process over 2-3 years. 

 

Boeser and the players we add in the offseason are the lynchpins to any type of quicker turnaround. For any acceleration after this year, he's still going to have to buy and trade for legitimate 1st and 2nd line producers over the next couple years. 

 

If he drafts a Top 3 forward next offseason, we may be able to stay on an accelerated 2-3 path. Benning can win while he's here but the gap to thread that needle is getting more narrow. His moves will need to be precise.

 

Next offseason is critical. If he doesn't drastically improve this team and make bold moves, we're on the 10-year plan and there's no way he'll be here to see it through.

Winning is a long way off for us.  We need to be patient, and allow the young guys JB is bringing on board to develop.  Boeser is a very key piece.  

[LaBamba]

39 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I think it's certainly too soon to cal the plan a "failure", but it isn't looking great right now. If the plan was to get younger, faster, bigger and stronger, all while "remaining competitive", I'd say we're batting below the Mendoza line.

 

The fact is, it's hard to know if that was really the "plan" all along. There is evidence to suggest that it was, (I honestly can't remember if there were direct quotes from JB or Trevor) but there's been moves made that seem to counter that philosophy.

 

FTR, I hated the "plan" from the get-go and said so at the time. (To much CDC derision, BTW) IMHO, we should have embraced a true rebuild in 2014, rather than sign Miller and Vrbata in an attempt to make the playoffs. The Canucks passed on the chance to draft the best player to come along since Sidney Crosby, all for the dubious benefit of an embarrassing loss to Calgary in the first round of the playoffs.

 

I am happy with Juolevi, (although I would have been happier with Laine or Matthews) and I think it's a small step in the right direction.

 

I didn't think much of signing Eriksson, but honestly, I didn't see him making a big difference in the fortunes of this team, so it's kind of a "whatever" move. It's not my money, so if the Aquilini's are okay with spending it....

 

I do agree somewhat with LaBamba though, that contract could be an Albatross by year 4, so hopefully buyouts are still on the table when it happens.

 

Good post. I'm on the exact same page. 

 

I would be somewhat more tolerant of his original plan if he followed through with it. Like you said. Most of these Gap fillers he acquired didn't fit his description of the "big and fast" team he was going to transform us into. Everything he aspired to do just isn't happening. 

 

 

The outline of his plan starts around the 07:00 mark and more goodness around the 28min mark. 

[LaBamba]

26 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

It was sarcasm LB 

 

What is sarcasm?

[Borvat]

I don't think any of Linden, Benning or WD will be here when this team becomes good again.  Benning should be a head scout, Willie is in over his head at the NHL level and Trevor appears to be a figure head or can't make the decisions required because he is too close to the current roster/players. (I know Benning is GM but Trevor is the Boss or should be) 

 

I fear this isn't even the worst before it starts to turn around. I believe the Sedins (current versions), Burrows and Edler can't make up the major part of your core if you want to build a winner.  Flame away. 

[aGENT]

4 minutes ago, Borvat said:

Burrows and Edler can't make up the major part of your core if you want to build a winner.  Flame away. 

 

Those guys won't be around for the next core...

[Borvat]

Just now, J.R. said:

 

Those guys won't be around for the next core...

 

That's part of my point.  It's why I believe they have not hit rock bottom yet.

[aGENT]

Just now, Borvat said:

 

That's part of my point.  It's why I believe they have not hit rock bottom yet.

 

All depends on how well the prospects do/how fast they develop the next couple years and if we can find a replacement 1C in that time. 

 

If they're not quite ready, there's going to be a rough couple years after these couple 'knife edge' years. 

 

I'm less concerned about the D but the forwards group (top 6) still has a noticeable age and talent gap.

 

That said, given how much Benning has transformed our D and D prospects pools in a couple short years, I'm optimistic he can work the same magic on the forward group. 

 

But yeah, people can't seem to grasp were rebuilding. Stuff will be hit and miss for a few years. 

[hearditall]

1 hour ago, LolClarkson said:

Pitt won the cup with none of these Yahoo type players

LOL... no one is Pittsburgh...

They have crosby who's the best in the world & a warrior. Kunitz is another warrior. Malkin is a big strong elite skill.

We don't have a Crosby & Malkin so for us to beat a team like that we can not try to beat them with pure skill as they clearly have the big advantage there over most teams. Gonna have to beat them at things they can be beaten at or it's game over. 

This goes for teams like Rangers, Montreal, Dallas, Anaheim, etc. who are all contenders. They will have to beat the penguins with more than skill in Playoffs if they want to beat them. That where guys like Kreider, Shaw, Kesler, Gallagher, Marchand, Lucic, etc. help out. Playoffs is another game & every team still needs these types...  

[oldnews]

17 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Most of these Gap fillers he acquired didn't fit his description of the "big and fast" team he was going to transform us into. Everything he aspired to do just isn't happening. 

 

Mmm.  I dunno.

 

Gud's pretty big, pretty good skater for his size.

Tryamkin likewise.

Pedan, although depth that's not on the roster - pretty fair to include him imo.

Virtanen's pretty big, pretty good skater.

Sutter's a decent sized two way guy that can get up and down the ice.

 

And if you're just looking for one of those attributes, guys like Stecher, Larsen are pretty mobile D.  Lockwood has wheels (and he's tearing it up as an 18yr old at Michigan.

 

I find the impatience of the critical teardown folks kind of ironic.

Shouldn't it be the 'compete now' people that have no time to wait for any of Benning's additions to develop?

 

Also not sure I'd trade Markstrom and Demko for many other pairs of young goaltenders in the NHL.

Washington has Holtby and Samsonov.

Tampa has Bishop and Vasilievskiy - but an expansion draft to deal with.

 

But shorter term, I'm looking forward to making the playoffs this year.

 

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Mmm.  I dunno.

 

Gud's pretty big, pretty good skater for his size.

Tryamkin likewise.

Pedan, although depth that's not on the roster - pretty fair to include him imo.

Virtanen's pretty big, pretty good skater.

Sutter's a decent sized two way guy that can get up and down the ice.

 

And if you're just looking for one of those attributes, guys like Stecher, Larsen are pretty mobile D.  Lockwood has wheels (and he's tearing it up as an 18yr old at Michigan.

 

I find the impatience of the critical teardown folks kind of ironic.

Shouldn't it be the 'compete now' people that have no time to wait for any of Benning's additions to develop?

 

Also not sure I'd trade Markstrom and Demko for many other pairs of young goaltenders in the NHL.

Washington has Holtby and Samsonov.

Tampa has Bishop and Vasilievskiy - but an expansion draft to deal with.

 

But shorter term, I'm looking forward to making the playoffs this year.

 

 

Thanks for handpicking all the fast big players and neglecting the 

 

Vey's 

[RUPERTKBD]

36 minutes ago, J.R. said:

 

Those guys won't be around for the next core...

That's right. The real question is, will Sutter and Gudbranson still be around and if so, will they be an effective part of the core?

 

I defended both moves at the time, because I thought the answer to both questions would be yes, but there's certainly a long way to go before this team starts to look like a true contender.