[Discussion] Van - Dal Goalie Swap

[stuman491]

After watching the game last night it was painfully obvious that Dallas needs a true #1 goalie.  They are a contender with better goal tending.  Both of their goalies contracts expire after the 17/18 season.  If we trade with them we are taking on a bad contract, but only for 1 extra season.

 

Trading Miller to Dallas would fill the need for a #1.  Taking back either Niemi (4.5 cap hit) or Lehtonen (5.9 cap hit) gives us a capable backup for 1 more year (expensive though).

 

What would Dallas give up to secure their goal tending position?   The plus side for them is they get cap flexibility in the summer possibly letting them take a run at Ben Bishop.  It also lets them be competitive and have a good playoff run this year. 

 

Does this deal interest Dallas?  What could we get back?  Would Brett Ritchie be a good return?

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

Faksa plz

[JM_]

I do think this could work... except for the fact that the ownership groups hate each other. But if they can get over that, Niemi makes the most sense with us retaining some of Millers salary, but I wouldn't do it for less than a 1st or 2nd and a top prospect, which probably kills the deal. 

[Sedinyoureyesontheprize]

4 minutes ago, S'all Good Man said:

I do think this could work... except for the fact that the ownership groups hate each other. But if they can get over that, Niemi makes the most sense with us retaining some of Millers salary, but I wouldn't do it for less than a 1st or 2nd and a top prospect, which probably kills the deal. 

Get what you can while you can? Right? We don't want a repeat of last year.

[JM_]

Just now, Setyoureyesontheprize said:

Get what you can while you can? Right? We don't want a repeat of last year.

 

I'm not in the camp that thinks JB could have got some big return for Vrbata, and Hammer gave 2 teams.... 

 

I also don't think getting "anything" back and giving Dallas a big boost is in our interest either. I'd rather see Benning play it patient. We don't have to give up Miller, they likely need him a lot more than we will so let them pay. Or choke in the 1st round. 

[oldnews]

It's an interesting idea.

 

Not sure Miller would be attractive enough to them or considered enough of an upgrade, but there is the matter of his contract expiring that is a positive.

 

Also not sure he'd be willing to go there - that's not really answerable except by him.

 

And could Dallas and Vancouver get beyond the underlying distaste for each other to get this done?

 

Regarding Ritchie - not sure he's going to fit too well.  Does he have the work ethic and consistency to be a solid future 3rd liner?  Do we need to add at RW with Eriksson, Virtanen, Hansen, Boeser....?  I'm not in the move Hansen for a 2nd crowd, so I personally would intend to keep Honey Badger here - he's a heart and soul type veteran imo - a keeper.

 

Still though imo the OP has identified an interesting opening - perhaps take a pick back instead if the framework has potential if the question marks panned out?

 

From our side I'd be willing to move Miller and wouldn't consider either of those guys a significant downgrade - may actually better suit getting Markstrom more starts (that Miller may stand in the way of....)

[ForsbergTheGreat]

I’ve posted this idea quite a bit in other threads cuz I think it can work.  Miller has a real good familiarity with Ruff already so I do think he's waive to go the dallas but.  Dallas has some options to consider.

 

On 8/26/2016 at 9:05 AM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Well if Dallas wants to upgrade their goaltending (which Nill has been rumoured to be in the market for) they really have two options.

 

Swing a deal for a goal that might get caught in the expansion process.  A goalie in his prime to help them compete in their current cup window. 

Goalies that fit this description would be; Fluery and Bishop

The pro’s about this is:

• They get a true #1 goalie to help push them over the top. 
• They lock of their goaltending for the near future in the midst of the Seguin/Benn saga.

 

The con’s about this is:

• It will likely cost them a decent asset to acquire, if they pay a decent price they’d want to make sure this goalie would be more than a rental. 
• The team they trade with will also have to be willing to take on a Lehtonen/Niemi cap hit (4.5-6) goalie going back for at least another year.
• Even if they move one goalie they’d still have a ton of cap (over 10) locked up in goaltending for at least until the end of the 2017-18 season.  Benn’s extension (raise) starts next year, which would put them into some cap troubles.  We’ve seen what teams have to give up to get some cap relief.

 

The other option they have is to go after a rental goalie with experience to help either provide stability as a backup or push for the #1 spot. 

Basically that option is Miller

The pro’s about this is:

• It would cost less to acquire.
• It would provide some confidences in the net for a playoff run.
• They could dump the lesser of the two goalies they have taking their cap off the books for next season.
• The rental would free up cap, in time for Benn’s extension to kick in. 

 

The con’s about this is:

• How much of an upgrade is Miller
• What exactly would the cost be.
• Miller is a short term option, would it just be worth it to pay the extra and lock up goaltending for long term.

 

Either way a deal with Dallas involving goaltending would have to be played out throughout the season.  Miller could stink the bed and Dallas could lose interest or vice versa.  Another team could have an injury and become in the market for a rental, making Millers cost go up and out of the range.  Another team could be willing to pay more for a goalie like Bishop.  Tampa might not be willing to take on extra cap of a goalie coming back. So could there be a deal in Dallas for goaltending and Miller.  I would say, yes and Dallas is likely one of Miller 5 teams he’d be willing to move to.   

Is Dallas better off with a Niemi + Nichushkin(rights) for Bishop/Fleury type offer

Or a Lehtonen + low prospect/conditional pick for Miller (retained salary) offer?

 

Personally I’m kind of thinking by the end of the year Fleury will be a Dallas star. Although I would love if we could get a conditional pick for miller. Something like the stars gave up for Russel last year.  A second that becomes a first if Miller takes them to the SCF.

[Ojibwa72]

1 hour ago, stuman491 said:

After watching the game last night it was painfully obvious that Dallas needs a true #1 goalie.  They are a contender with better goal tending.  Both of their goalies contracts expire after the 17/18 season.  If we trade with them we are taking on a bad contract, but only for 1 extra season.

 

Trading Miller to Dallas would fill the need for a #1.  Taking back either Niemi (4.5 cap hit) or Lehtonen (5.9 cap hit) gives us a capable backup for 1 more year (expensive though).

 

What would Dallas give up to secure their goal tending position?   The plus side for them is they get cap flexibility in the summer possibly letting them take a run at Ben Bishop.  It also lets them be competitive and have a good playoff run this year. 

 

Does this deal interest Dallas?  What could we get back?  Would Brett Ritchie be a good return?

I honestly don't think they'd add anything but Miller (25% retained) for Niemi wouldn't be the worst thing plus would show the transitioning to Markstrom as the #1.

[Neversummer]

Canucks don't do trades with Dallas ... see Hamhuis.  

[timberz21]

Miller  2W - 2.92GAA - 0.899AVG

Niemi 3W - 3.65GAA - 0.892AVG

Lethonen 3W - 3.18GAA - 0891AVG

 

Miller isn't really an upgrade.  Especially since I believe he plays behind a better defensive team than Dallas.  I don't think Dallas would pay a premium to get Miller and I would want a premium return if we are taking on Niemi or Lethonen.

[HerrDrFunk]

2 minutes ago, timberz21 said:

Miller  2W - 2.92GAA - 0.899AVG

Niemi 3W - 3.65GAA - 0.892AVG

Lethonen 3W - 3.18GAA - 0891AVG

 

Miller isn't really an upgrade.  Especially since I believe he plays behind a better defensive team than Dallas.  I don't think Dallas would pay a premium to get Miller and I would want a premium return if we are taking on Niemi or Lethonen.

That's what I was just thinking. It seems like it would be a really sideways kind of move for both teams. 

 

Dallas is way better off giving up a bit more to get a true #1.

[stuman491]

8 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Is Dallas better off with a Niemi + Nichushkin(rights) for Bishop/Fleury type offer

Or a Lehtonen + low prospect/conditional pick for Miller (retained salary) offer?

 

Personally I’m kind of thinking by the end of the year Fleury will be a Dallas star. Although I would love if we could get a conditional pick for miller. Something like the stars gave up for Russel last year.  A second that becomes a first if Miller takes them to the SCF.

Never thought of Fleury.  He might be a good fit as well.  I get the feeling the the Lightning will keep Bishop for the playoffs as they could use the depth and will Bishop go to free agency.  That's why I think Miller is attractive for this season. You are thinking his value would not be all that high in a trade though?  You don't think taking back a bad contract is enough to get us a top level prospect or pick? 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, stuman491 said:

Never thought of Fleury.  He might be a good fit as well.  I get the feeling the the Lightning will keep Bishop for the playoffs as they could use the depth and will Bishop go to free agency.  That's why I think Miller is attractive for this season. You are thinking his value would not be all that high in a trade though?  You don't think taking back a bad contract is enough to get us a top level prospect or pick? 

Penguins have to try to move Fleury (who has a NMC) or they will for sure lose Murray to expansion.  I think either Penguins or the Lightning would find Nichushkins rights attractive and they might as more in return as well. 

 

As for miller.  I think when Dallas has other options and the fact that Miller hasn't has a solid playoff record in the last few years he wouldn't be the stars first choice.  His cap being gone next year and familiarity with the coach help his cause but the real incentive about miller is the cheap cost.   As soon as it starts to get in the closer ball park to Fleury of Bishop territory I'd see dallas much more interested in going after those two.  So to keep him attractive the return would have to be fairly low and low risk,  which is why I think a conditional pick works in their favor. A top prospect would be out of the question without us adding in more. 

 

I also don't consider Lehtonen and Niemi complete cap dumps.  They are a good 1B goalies and fit the need for teams with young upcoming starts.  Like Tampa, Vancouver and Pittsburgh, who will be in the market for next year. I think Dallas feels they could move one of those goalies in the offseason fairly easy if they needed to.  Especially with only one year remaining on their deals. 

[stuman491]

2 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Penguins have to try to move Fleury (who has a NMC) or they will for sure lose Murray to expansion.  I think either Penguins or the Lightning would find Nichushkins rights attractive and they might as more in return as well. 

 

As for miller.  I think when Dallas has other options and the fact that Miller hasn't has a solid playoff record in the last few years he wouldn't be the stars first choice.  His cap being gone next year and familiarity with the coach help his cause but the real incentive about miller is the cheap cost.   As soon as it starts to get in the closer ball park to Fleury of Bishop territory I'd see dallas much more interested in going after those two.  So to keep him attractive the return would have to be fairly low and low risk,  which is why I think a conditional pick works in their favor. A top prospect would be out of the question without us adding in more. 

 

I also don't consider Lehtonen and Niemi complete cap dumps.  They are a good 1B goalies and fit the need for teams with young upcoming starts.  Like Tampa, Vancouver and Pittsburgh, who will be in the market for next year. I think Dallas feels they could move one of those goalies in the offseason fairly easy if they needed to.  Especially with only one year remaining on their deals. 

Good response! Thank you.  I suppose a conditional pick, might be our best option.  Hope that Miller plays lights out in the playoffs.  And in the end that might be more than any other team will offer us for him. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, stuman491 said:

Good response! Thank you.  I suppose a conditional pick, might be our best option.  Hope that Miller plays lights out in the playoffs.  And in the end that might be more than any other team will offer us for him. 

I think our best hope is that a contending team or two gets an injury before TD.  Then Miller would be a top commodity and we'd get a bidding war on him.  If a #1 goalie like Price, Quick, Crawford, Holtby went down those teams would be looking for a short term goalie to fill in for the season.  Miller is probably the best available one year (short term) goalie on the market so then teams would have to pony up to get him. 

 

 

[elvis15]

I'm not sure they'd want to offer enough on top of us taking one of their two goalies to make it worthwhile for us. I've said in other Miller to Dallas proposals I like the idea of having a more veteran goalie for an extra year to help Markstrom while Demko develops, but we'd want something of value back with that and I'm sure Dallas isn't as interested in giving up much to upgrade their net by only a small amount.

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I’ve posted this idea quite a bit in other threads cuz I think it can work.  Miller has a real good familiarity with Ruff already so I do think he's waive to go the dallas but.  Dallas has some options to consider.

 

 

 

Is Dallas better off with a Niemi + Nichushkin(rights) for Bishop/Fleury type offer

Or a Lehtonen + low prospect/conditional pick for Miller (retained salary) offer?

 

Personally I’m kind of thinking by the end of the year Fleury will be a Dallas star. Although I would love if we could get a conditional pick for miller. Something like the stars gave up for Russel last year.  A second that becomes a first if Miller takes them to the SCF.

If we could get Nichushkin for Miller that would be considered a steal, right?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we could get Nichushkin for Miller that would be considered a steal, right?

Yeah but it ain't going to happen 

[GB5]

I like Niemi in addition to a high pick (1st or 2nd) or prospect for Miller. I doubt Dallas would give up another 1st rounder after last year but who knows.

[doodle sack]

I like it, Miller could help out Dallas a lot. Also how about we add to the deal say Sbisa or Guance so we can get a 1st or Nichushkin (does not play on the team currently) why not get something for it.