Christy Clark and BC Liberals Approve Kinder Morgan Project

[Sapper]

I saw BC liberal tweet that  If I was a liberal member - I would tear up my card over.

 

Like him or not John Horgan makes the following statement

 

"I believe that those in the interior don’t have the same perspective that those of us on the coast. That’s a challenge for not just me as a leader of the New Democratic Party, not just for anyone involved in the political process. This is not a partisan question. It’s a BC challenge "

 

Now this comment would be the same as canucks fans after a loss to the flames saying " I beleive that flames fans won't feel the loss the same as Canucks fans".

 

Both are factual statements.  Those living were the pipeline unloads and arguably the greatest risk of any leak will have a different view than those don't live near the pipeline. Nothing dirty, nothing insulting in that statement - its a fact.

So what do we see the Liberals crying about - On their website they cry that Horgan says interior residents lack perspective and calling on Horgan to issue an apology.

 

Just when I thought the BC liberal party couldn't possibly sink lower. In fact it should be Cristy apologizing for her party all but calling BC Coastal citizens views irrelevant  to their party. True to the BC liberals the only opinions allowed are the ones they tell you to support. The sooner they are gone the better.

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I haven't bothered to comment much in this thread, because (predictably) a lot of people are treating it as a black and white situation, where there really should be a significant amount of grey...

 

However, after reading your posts , I'd like to welcome you to the boards and thank you for offering a balanced point of view to such a polarizing situation.

 

One suggestion, if I may: Try and separate your posts into paragraphs. You have some excellent points, but as someone who's been here for many years, I can tell you that a lot of people won't bother to read what looks to them like a "wall of text". (Even if it is a small, Un-Trump-like wall)

Haha, thanks for your suggestion. I will break things down into paragraphs and un trump my post! Cheers!

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, RUPERTKBD said:

I haven't bothered to comment much in this thread, because (predictably) a lot of people are treating it as a black and white situation, where there really should be a significant amount of grey...

 

However, after reading your posts , I'd like to welcome you to the boards and thank you for offering a balanced point of view to such a polarizing situation.

 

One suggestion, if I may: Try and separate your posts into paragraphs. You have some excellent points, but as someone who's been here for many years, I can tell you that a lot of people won't bother to read what looks to them like a "wall of text". (Even if it is a small, Un-Trump-like wall)

Ok edited it. You're right way easier to read. Thanks again.

[kingofsurrey]

1 hour ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Ok edited it. You're right way easier to read. Thanks again.

Have you read the New York Times Article about Christy Clark ???

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/canada/british-columbia-christy-clark.html?_r=0

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, kingofsurrey said:

Have you read the New York Times Article about Christy Clark ???

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/canada/british-columbia-christy-clark.html?_r=0

Rather then you making multiple threads bashing CC and the B.C libs why not make one anti CC thread?

 

I don't like her either but man the ndp would be a disaster. Do you want to re-live the 90s?

 

It's to bad the B.C conservatives aren't a mainstream party. Funding is big problem there.

[kingofsurrey]

http://vancouversun.com/opinion/columnists/daphne-bramham-pipeline-protest-inevitable-but-how-big-will-it-get

 

There will be protests and civil disobedience now that Premier Christy Clark has cleared the way for the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

That’s so obvious that among the few things left to wonder about are: When will it start? Will it be non-violent? And, will it exceed the peak mobilization of 11,000 people at Standing Rock, N.D. to support Sioux water protectors in their anti-pipeline fight?

The backdrop to this is a unique set of circumstances. Primarily, what sets the Trans Mountain conflict apart is that the Kinder Morgan pipeline’s penultimate destination is tidewater in Canada’s third largest urban area — a metropolitan area considered one of the world’s most beautiful and that includes Canada’s most expensive city — where the oil will be loaded into tankers and shipped.

The primary site of the high-stakes fight will undoubtedly be in Burnaby, which protesters (including Tsleil-Waututh) will be able to walk, paddle, drive, take public transit or car-share to get to.

Far from putting their lives on hold to get to a remote location or enduring frigid temperatures like at Standing Rock and the Site C construction site, protesters will be able to drop in before and after work, school or yoga class.

And, considering that residents Metro Vancouver and British Columbia are divided into almost equal-sized camps over pipelines and substantially increased tanker traffic, that’s a lot of people.

As for Hollywood stars, they can fly in in the morning and be back home by nightfall.

So, the billion-dollar question is: Do the company and political leaders have the stomach for this?

American politicians didn’t. In December, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers reversed its decision. It revoked a permit for the completion of the Dakota Access Pipeline and told its builders — Energy Transfer Partners and Sunoco Logistics — to find an alternate route around the Standing Rock Indian Reservation for the pipeline that will link the Bakken oilfields (which extend under the U.S.-Canada border into Saskatchewan) to Illinois.

[Attila Umbrus]

3 hours ago, kingofsurrey said:

Have you read the New York Times Article about Christy Clark ???

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/world/canada/british-columbia-christy-clark.html?_r=0

It's interesting, but nothing new. I know they say that only in BC they have no limit on contributions. But in other provinces they have other sneaky ways to line politicians pockets. Funny that NY times wrote about it though, when in America they have their own crazy issues to deal with. The big thing for me is that our governing body (the OGC) in BC keeps a level head on oil and gas production in our province. I definitely don't agree with these tactics, but as disgusting as they are it's been going on for a long long time. And not only in the oil and gas industry. Politics and big industry just love to get tangled up with each other so they can keep their interests flowing. Talk about broken...

 

The OGC (oil and gas commission) is not a government agency and is actually paid for by the oil and gas industry. They are like our police. If something happens we report it to the OGC. We have to do monthly reporting to them, and they audit sites continuously through the year. If you are in good standing with them, you may only see them once in a while. But if you are running a bad operation, they increase their presence and start handing out large fines. If they aren't satisfied and have given warning several times they have absolute authority to shut the operation down. And they also tour the country side looking for problematic sites, so it's not like a bad operation can just clean up their act cause they know they have an OGC officer visiting that day.

 

So this brings me to our Kinder Morgan situation. I know people are worried about our natural habitat and the potential for spills and releases. But hopefully people see that there are protective measures in place to make sure these things don't happen, and if they do the consequences are severe. The OGC officers I've met over the years are great people, they have a love for BC and the environment. They cannot be bought by big oil money. These guys are running on a moral code. Which is why they join in the first place.

 

Also another note, each oil and gas well/plant/processing facility/pipeline have to put a remediation fund into place for every single site they build on. So a percentage of the sites funds each year is put into an account that at the end of the sites life span there is money to return the site back to a natural state. This is mandated by the OGC and other provincial/federal regulators and each oil and gas company needs to comply to this.

 

There are also other regulating agencies that protect and serve the environment. Each province has their own agency that is not controlled by government. Also for pipelines that run between borders and cross Canada the NEB actually governs those. So there are sites that are governed provincially by OGC and the like, then there are others that are governed federally and policed by the NEB. But my point being, that Canada overall has a blanket of protection for each situation. The same cannot be said in other places in the world. If you actually measure Canada vs other oil and gas countries our safety and environmental policies are top notch. Norway is one country that I think has a better system than Canada. But they are a way smaller land mass with a smaller population.

 

I hope this gives some better insight into our regulatory policies within the industry. So even though Mrs. Clark has her own agenda there are still checks and balances to ensure the safe operation of the industry in general. No, it does nothing to stop a project from going ahead like the Trans mt. pipeline, but at least it can be assured that there is a safe guard in place that is NOT run by politicians.

[Attila Umbrus]

I'll also say one more thing. I live on Vancouver Island and work up north. I love BC's coast. I love BC in general. I have travelled all over the place in BC and met lots of great people. And have worked with people from every corner of this province. I have always found it interesting to see the gaps in knowledge when it comes to people from different areas.

 

If you're from Northern BC you've been exposed to all this oil and gas exploration for so long it's normal. But there is a lack of knowledge and understanding as to how a person up north thinks compared to an Islander for example. The same goes for the Islander, they have never been up north and maybe not experienced it first hand so they are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

The gap is really a void when it comes to these two individuals. The truth is in the middle as always. But it's hard for people on both sides to comprehend each persons position. That's why I've made it my goal to try and close those gaps and voids to try and get closer to the truth on both ends and create understanding across the board.

 

We have an amazing province and I want to keep it that way. So I hope my information is at least being helpful to some...

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Can we stop feeding the troll (kingofsurrey)? Just ignore the guy, his baseless "facts" are about to give me a brain aneurysm. It's really getting in the way of an actual discussion on oil. I'm trying to read this thread, and this dude's comments just breaks the flow on every single page. Anyways...

 

I think we can all agree that oil is not the best resource out there to be greatly dependent on for energy, but the reality is that this country, and this province, need money, and more importantly, people need energy.

 

That being said, we should be continually investing in greener technologies and alternative energy sources, but that doesn't mean cancelling revenue-generating pipeline projects and completely cutting off oil. There needs to be a two-pronged approach - you don't just cut one out for the other. Progress doesn't equate to instantaneous change, and some of these hard-nosed environmentalists need to realize that. 

[Ryan Strome]

22 minutes ago, KoreanHockeyFan said:

Can we stop feeding the troll (kingofsurrey)? Just ignore the guy, his baseless "facts" are about to give me a brain aneurysm. It's really getting in the way of an actual discussion on oil. I'm trying to read this thread, and this dude's comments just breaks the flow on every single page. Anyways...

 

I think we can all agree that oil is not the best resource out there to be greatly dependent on for energy, but the reality is that this country, and this province, need money, and more importantly, people need energy.

 

That being said, we should be continually investing in greener technologies and alternative energy sources, but that doesn't mean cancelling revenue-generating pipeline projects and completely cutting off oil. There needs to be a two-pronged approach - you don't just cut one out for the other. Progress doesn't equate to instantaneous change, and some of these hard-nosed environmentalists need to realize that. 

+1 when I replenish. I totally agree kos is a troll but he did some analytics to apparently prove he isn't a troll. 

[Violator]

He's the biggest troll CDC has seen in a while

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, Violator said:

He's the biggest troll CDC has seen in a while

NO, Alf is.  KoS is actually kind of sad

[kingofsurrey]

23 hours ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I'll also say one more thing. I live on Vancouver Island and work up north. I love BC's coast. I love BC in general. I have travelled all over the place in BC and met lots of great people. And have worked with people from every corner of this province. I have always found it interesting to see the gaps in knowledge when it comes to people from different areas.

 

If you're from Northern BC you've been exposed to all this oil and gas exploration for so long it's normal. But there is a lack of knowledge and understanding as to how a person up north thinks compared to an Islander for example. The same goes for the Islander, they have never been up north and maybe not experienced it first hand so they are at the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

The gap is really a void when it comes to these two individuals. The truth is in the middle as always. But it's hard for people on both sides to comprehend each persons position. That's why I've made it my goal to try and close those gaps and voids to try and get closer to the truth on both ends and create understanding across the board.

 

We have an amazing province and I want to keep it that way. So I hope my information is at least being helpful to some...

Great post.  I agree it is important for us all to look at all sides to issues.

Never black and white.   I appreciate others here that make me think and present information that i havent considered...

[Sapper]

On 1/15/2017 at 5:33 PM, Ryan Strome said:

Rather then you making multiple threads bashing CC and the B.C libs why not make one anti CC thread?

 

I don't like her either but man the ndp would be a disaster. Do you want to re-live the 90s?

 

It's to bad the B.C conservatives aren't a mainstream party. Funding is big problem there.

Thanks for the laugh. I get it now why Trump said if he was to run as president - it would be as a Republican. Seriously the Liberals have been in power for 16 years - if you can't rely on the good deeds of the Liberals as a reason to vote for them vs the NDP - You should evaluate just how bad you have bought into the ideology of the extreme right wing here in BC.

 

The 2 supreme court losses we have to pay for are greater than the fast cat losses .... the jobs created by this regime are low wage part time work mostly. Those jobs all depend on top up from the middle class tax payers ( since business hardly pays any now its mainly just us paying taxes now ).

 

So speak for yourself - I would rather save some money with an NDP government instead of being picked clean by user fees - service cuts and stagnate wages of the BC Liberal party.  Even the Liberals don't claim the NDP left a deficit as the audited return on transition confirmed a surplus. 

 

And lastly its time to give the rhetoric a rest and ask any politician running what are they going to do to increase wages and workers conditions in BC. The current 16 years has not worked - its time to give someone.... anyone ... a chance to do something different. If we keep labeling the NDP of today as the NDP of the 90's then why is anyone voting for the BC Libsocred party that was cleaned out in disgrace? Every BC Liberal supporter needs to ask themselves if after 16 years all you have is to insult the NDP --- it kinda means you have zero to stand on in defense of those comments.  I am not suggesting the NDP have it right with all of their policies but after 16 years are workers better off - the same - or worse off then when the BC Liberals took office. The answer is the majority are the same or worse off. BC Household debt is the highest in the country. We are near the top for loss of good full time jobs and at the top for creation of low wage part time jobs. We are second from the top for child poverty. Interest rates go up a few points and we as a province are in a TON of trouble.

 

 Look at the latest mortgage helper - Deferring up to 1/2 the down payment for 5 years then having young families paying 2 mortgages. Bigger and cheaper credit is NOT the answer yet its all the BC Liberals seem to be able to come up with.  The BC NDP could not do any worse - its time to give them a shot or clean house of your party of choice because they have had 16 years and many BC Families are not better off - Yet we have corporate profit records........ The whole thing fails the sniff test.

[Ryan Strome]

The Ndp destroyed B.C in the 90s. Made B.C last in economic growth and B.C has barely recovered even today.

 

Thanks for the laugh. 

[Sapper]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

The Ndp destroyed B.C in the 90s. Made B.C last in economic growth and B.C has barely recovered even today.

 

Thanks for the laugh. 

You have allowed yourself to be played like a cheap fiddle I'm afraid

https://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2010/12/10/PopulationClark/

 

Now ignore the opinion parts as it is a left leaning article - however the stats portion clearly debunks the propaganda you have been provided with the intent that you keep repeating it over and over in their hope that people will believe it as fact.  I can understand the right wing supporters that support policies of the BC Liberals and use those points to defend supporting them over the NDP. I can understand those that say the NDP has polices that they simply can not support no matter what the consequences of another party will be. Those people right or wrong stand on conviction.

 

Don't beat yourself up over being played by them - That is how propaganda works - it depends on its very survival on not being challenged - and being repeated as often as possible.

 

Don't get me wrong - The NDP made many - many mistakes in the 1990's. There are people I know and work with that support the BC Liberals and stick to arguments around that parties polices.... in fact being extreme right wing supporters I don't ever recall hearing them insult the NDP or any other party .... They argue how the Liberals policies have made them more money etc. But this rehotric regarding the NDP is just propaganda being driven by a party, that after 16 years should not even mention any other party .... they should be able to up sell themselves based on their record.  This isn't an attack on you as a poster or another die hard right wing supporter. It's a call to end the uneducated continuance of the right wing ideology that is blinding you and other right wing supporters from demanding your own party start doing things that will help us vs 16 years later the best the can come up with is fear mongering. Atleast the NDP deserve credit for owning their past record and fighting to change it under the same banner. The right wing simply changed party names and continued. If by your logic we can never elect the NDP because of the 90's then the BC Liberals who really were the BC Socred party should also never be elected .....  Any part in power a full generation who needs their supporters to attack a previous generations government clearly has nothing to offer voters.

 

 

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

Lol I constantly run down CC and say B.C really needs a viable third option and you come up with this argument. You will be arguing with yourself bud because I don't support B.C liberals.

 

But hey, by your logic lets give nazis another try, you can't hold the 30's against them. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Lol I constantly run down CC and say B.C really needs a viable third option and you come up with this argument. You will be arguing with yourself bud because I don't support B.C liberals.

 

But hey, by your logic lets give nazis another try, you can't hold the 30's against them. 

 

 

America is already giving it a shot

 

Let's watch

[Sapper]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Lol I constantly run down CC and say B.C really needs a viable third option and you come up with this argument. You will be arguing with yourself bud because I don't support B.C liberals.

 

But hey, by your logic lets give nazis another try, you can't hold the 30's against them. 

 

 

You are slithering to a new low. I never mentioned Nazis in any of my posts regarding the BC Liberals. Your comments are a new low and accurately reflect the hate and fear mongering of some BC Liberal supporters,  Your ignorance of the atrocities committed by the Nazis, and using that that in your NDP stance shows a frighting level of hate, and or ignorance .   But thank you for clarifying you have nothing, zip , nada , zilch to offer in debate.

[Sapper]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

America is already giving it a shot

 

Let's watch

Hopefully the US courts will reign him in sooner vs later. Alot of what he says will in fact be challenged in court if he ever acts on it. Their are republicans waiting for the first thing that will stick in an impeachment process to dump Trump for Pence. I'm betting he will be gone within 18 months.