[Discussion] Expansion and the TDL for Vancouver who goes and who stays?

[Phat Fingers]

I don't usually start threads, but when I do...

 

Hear me out, we have a bubble team exceeding expectations this season (65pts  ) that is a potential wildcard team.  I believe this is due to poor performances from teams that should be better this year (LA, Cal and Win). 

 

I am stoked that we have had good growth from most of our young players and love the new d core. My hope is that JB recognizes that we should move out some older vets at the TDL and early off season rather than add. I believe we cannot afford to lose any real talent to LV and need to make smart moves to protect our younger players. 

 

Added to that, we have two vets on expiring deals that should garner some attention at the TDL. The following players are the ones that I think have value and could/should be moved to further the "retool".  Vancouver can retain salary or take back cap hits to facilitate a deal. 

 

Miller.  Awesome addition, has really shown he is a legit veteran who can add a lot of security to a contender with questions in goal. 

 

Teams that could/should be interested. Edm, LA, Mon (Montoya is awful), Ana.  Can't see him getting more than a 2nd after his flop in STL.

 

Burrows.  It would be awesome to get a 2nd, but I would expect a 3rd for the dragon slayer. He has lost a bit, but has had a great bounce back season and is the type of player that teams love to add for the playoffs. 

 

Montreal has been mentioned. It would be a great story of he went back there, but many teams should be interested.

 

The two above moves are fairly straightforward and only losing Miller would dampen expectations this season.

 

The hard moves this year I believe should occur is designed to preserve assets from LV. 

 

Hansen, awesome cap hit, limited NTC and the exact type of player any team wants. But he is 31 this year and we have to consider that one of Baer or Granlund would be exposed to LV if we keep Hansen. For that reason, trade Hansen at near peak value and get a much better return. 

 

Hansen could start a bidding war and get a low 1st at min.  I would like to see a waiver exempt legit prospect over a pick.  For example, Montreal gets Hansen, Vancouver gets Juulsen and a 3rd or Wash gives up Bowey for Hansen. 

 

Next, our Defence needs to be thinned out in the top four. Guddy has poor value right now and I like his physical play and leadership abilities. So he's out.  

 

Sbisa is proving his worth this year, is just 25 and I don't believe he would get much return based on his inconsistency issues from his past years. He is great for Van, can play both sides and is a great top 4 place holder until our younger players can step up. 

 

This leaves Tanev and Edler. A case can be made to keep or trade either.  Tanev can go to any team and I think would have the highest return, but he is young and fits in exactly with the 'retool on the fly' approach JB has taken.  Edler has a NTC and injury issues (back) that might limit return.  

 

At minimum a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for either, but believe that value to be low.  More if they are packaged with one of the other mentioned players. 

 

Either would likely be the most sought after defenders available for the TDL for any cup team and both are on good contracts for the following season. 

 

Thoughts and ideas of who would be ideal partners for trades?

 

 

EW

[smithers joe]

i can see the canucks trading burrows at tdl or letting him walk at season's end. 

miller has a list of 5 teams he'ld go too..all around where his wife works. if demko isn't ready to back up next season, i could see them bringing miller back for another year.

edler has said, he won't give up his ntc and doesn't want to leave vancouver.

hansen is a heart and soul kind of player and 31 isn't too old. 

boeser should eventually replace hansen but hansen is better than some of our other rw'ers. 

i agree that we should replace our core but not until the replacements  can take on the responsibilties of the core. bo is getting close.

the sedins could be resigned for less money as 3rd line players. 

benning sticking to his  plans.

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Tanev to ARZ make the best sense.  They are one of the few teams needing a RHD and his analytic's make him especially valuable to Chayka.

 

Tanev + Granlund for Domi + 3rd

 

Since ARZ isn't really in the hunt for a playoff spot, there is no rush for them to make this move, so this move doesn't have to happen before TDL, it just has to happen prior to the expansion draft June 18th. But I would prefer for it to happen before TDL

 

If we are able to pull a deal like this I don't think I move Hansen. He's great RW depth that can fit up and down the line up, and has a great work ethic for the young players to look up to.

 

Miller I'm ok staying here since i think it will be hard to find a home for him with cap and NTC.  But for the right price possibly Dallas. 

 

Miller for Niemi + Nichushkin rights?  Or maybe just Neimi and a another 3rd.

 

 

Burrows I only move if he wants to move.  If he wants to finish his career off in Van i'm ok with that, but if he wants to chase the cup, then we should find a home for him. I'd even say we should retain cap if needed.

 

Burrows (25%) to NYR for a 3rd round pick.

 

Line up

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Baertschi Sutter Eriksson

Domi Hovart Burrows

Skille Chaput Jake

 

Edler Stech

Sbisa Guddy

Hutton Tree

 

Markstrom

Miller

 

Canucks protect

Sedin Sedin Bo, Sutter, Granlund, Hansen, Eriksson

Edler, Sbisa, Guddy

Marky

 

[Phat Fingers]

7 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Tanev to ARZ make the best sense.  They are one of the few teams needing a RHD and his analytic's make him especially valuable to Chayka.

 

Tanev + Granlund for Domi + 3rd

 

Since ARZ isn't really in the hunt for a playoff spot, there is no rush for them to make this move, so this move doesn't have to happen before TDL, it just has to happen prior to the expansion draft June 18th. But I would prefer for it to happen before TDL

 

If we are able to pull a deal like this I don't think I move Hansen. He's great RW depth that can fit up and down the line up, and has a great work ethic for the young players to look up to.

 

Miller I'm ok staying here since i think it will be hard to find a home for him with cap and NTC.  But for the right price possibly Dallas. 

 

Miller for Niemi + Nichushkin rights?  Or maybe just Neimi and a another 3rd.

 

 

Burrows I only move if he wants to move.  If he wants to finish his career off in Van i'm ok with that, but if he wants to chase the cup, then we should find a home for him. I'd even say we should retain cap if needed.

 

Burrows (25%) to NYR for a 3rd round pick.

 

Line up

Sedin Sedin Hansen

Baertschi Sutter Eriksson

Domi Hovart Burrows

Skille Chaput Jake

 

Edler Stech

Sbisa Guddy

Hutton Tree

 

Markstrom

Miller

 

Canucks protect

Sedin Sedin Bo, Sutter, Granlund, Hansen, Eriksson

Edler, Sbisa, Guddy

Marky

 

I would do Domi for Tanev.  We would have solved our center depth and be looking great at forward after this draft. Don't know if Zona would though. 

 

EW

[ForsbergTheGreat]

18 minutes ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I would do Domi for Tanev.  We would have solved our center depth and be looking great at forward after this draft. Don't know if Zona would though. 

 

EW

Yeah I don't what the yotes are planning. They were said to be interest in trying the acquire a top 4 RHD. They were rumoured to be taking to blues about shattenkirk and the flames about Hamilton. Those players wouldn't come cheap so you want have to assume they are prepared to give up some value. I wouldn't move tanev for anything less than domi from arz. So that would be the price I'd be asking for. 

[Rick Blight]

2 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I don't usually start threads, but when I do...

 

Hear me out, we have a bubble team exceeding expectations this season (65pts  ) that is a potential wildcard team.  I believe this is due to poor performances from teams that should be better this year (LA, Cal and Win). 

 

I am stoked that we have had good growth from most of our young players and love the new d core. My hope is that JB recognizes that we should move out some older vets at the TDL and early off season rather than add. I believe we cannot afford to lose any real talent to LV and need to make smart moves to protect our younger players. 

 

Added to that, we have two vets on expiring deals that should garner some attention at the TDL. The following players are the ones that I think have value and could/should be moved to further the "retool".  Vancouver can retain salary or take back cap hits to facilitate a deal. 

 

Miller.  Awesome addition, has really shown he is a legit veteran who can add a lot of security to a contender with questions in goal. 

 

Teams that could/should be interested. Edm, LA, Mon (Montoya is awful), Ana.  Can't see him getting more than a 2nd after his flop in STL.

 

Burrows.  It would be awesome to get a 2nd, but I would expect a 3rd for the dragon slayer. He has lost a bit, but has had a great bounce back season and is the type of player that teams love to add for the playoffs. 

 

Montreal has been mentioned. It would be a great story of he went back there, but many teams should be interested.

 

The two above moves are fairly straightforward and only losing Miller would dampen expectations this season.

 

The hard moves this year I believe should occur is designed to preserve assets from LV. 

 

Hansen, awesome cap hit, limited NTC and the exact type of player any team wants. But he is 31 this year and we have to consider that one of Baer or Granlund would be exposed to LV if we keep Hansen. For that reason, trade Hansen at near peak value and get a much better return. 

 

Hansen could start a bidding war and get a low 1st at min.  I would like to see a waiver exempt legit prospect over a pick.  For example, Montreal gets Hansen, Vancouver gets Juulsen and a 3rd or Wash gives up Bowey for Hansen. 

 

Next, our Defence needs to be thinned out in the top four. Guddy has poor value right now and I like his physical play and leadership abilities. So he's out.  

 

Sbisa is proving his worth this year, is just 25 and I don't believe he would get much return based on his inconsistency issues from his past years. He is great for Van, can play both sides and is a great top 4 place holder until our younger players can step up. 

 

This leaves Tanev and Edler. A case can be made to keep or trade either.  Tanev can go to any team and I think would have the highest return, but he is young and fits in exactly with the 'retool on the fly' approach JB has taken.  Edler has a NTC and injury issues (back) that might limit return.  

 

At minimum a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for either, but believe that value to be low.  More if they are packaged with one of the other mentioned players. 

 

Either would likely be the most sought after defenders available for the TDL for any cup team and both are on food contracts for the following season. 

 

Thoughts and ideas of who would be ideal partners for trades?

 

 

EW

Do you think we could get more players on these type of contracts? Should create a lot of cap space to pursue UFA's........

[WhoseTruckWasIt]

.....zzzzzzzz......

 

Prepare to be disappointed.  Miller will be re-signed.  Burrows and Hansen won't be traded.  A Dman makes sense to move but the market is paralyzed.  I'm starting to agree with Forsberg that Edler will be exposed.  I suspect that we've tried to trade him several times, and not because I don't think he's good.

[qwijibo]

I don't see Montreal having much interest in any of the potential Canucks that might be available. But especially NOT Miller.  

 

Montoya is far from terrible (as you suggested). He's put up a record of 7-4-2 and recently earned a 2 year extension due to his solid play.   Montreal picking up Miller solves a problem that doesn't exist and creates several new ones for Montreal.  (Salary cap, expansion issues)

[orcasgonewild]

3 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I don't usually start threads, but when I do...

 

Hear me out, we have a bubble team exceeding expectations this season (65pts  ) that is a potential wildcard team.  I believe this is due to poor performances from teams that should be better this year (LA, Cal and Win). 

 

I am stoked that we have had good growth from most of our young players and love the new d core. My hope is that JB recognizes that we should move out some older vets at the TDL and early off season rather than add. I believe we cannot afford to lose any real talent to LV and need to make smart moves to protect our younger players. 

 

Added to that, we have two vets on expiring deals that should garner some attention at the TDL. The following players are the ones that I think have value and could/should be moved to further the "retool".  Vancouver can retain salary or take back cap hits to facilitate a deal. 

 

Miller.  Awesome addition, has really shown he is a legit veteran who can add a lot of security to a contender with questions in goal. 

 

Teams that could/should be interested. Edm, LA, Mon (Montoya is awful), Ana.  Can't see him getting more than a 2nd after his flop in STL.

 

Burrows.  It would be awesome to get a 2nd, but I would expect a 3rd for the dragon slayer. He has lost a bit, but has had a great bounce back season and is the type of player that teams love to add for the playoffs. 

 

Montreal has been mentioned. It would be a great story of he went back there, but many teams should be interested.

 

The two above moves are fairly straightforward and only losing Miller would dampen expectations this season.

 

The hard moves this year I believe should occur is designed to preserve assets from LV. 

 

Hansen, awesome cap hit, limited NTC and the exact type of player any team wants. But he is 31 this year and we have to consider that one of Baer or Granlund would be exposed to LV if we keep Hansen. For that reason, trade Hansen at near peak value and get a much better return. 

 

Hansen could start a bidding war and get a low 1st at min.  I would like to see a waiver exempt legit prospect over a pick.  For example, Montreal gets Hansen, Vancouver gets Juulsen and a 3rd or Wash gives up Bowey for Hansen. 

 

Next, our Defence needs to be thinned out in the top four. Guddy has poor value right now and I like his physical play and leadership abilities. So he's out.  

 

Sbisa is proving his worth this year, is just 25 and I don't believe he would get much return based on his inconsistency issues from his past years. He is great for Van, can play both sides and is a great top 4 place holder until our younger players can step up. 

 

This leaves Tanev and Edler. A case can be made to keep or trade either.  Tanev can go to any team and I think would have the highest return, but he is young and fits in exactly with the 'retool on the fly' approach JB has taken.  Edler has a NTC and injury issues (back) that might limit return.  

 

At minimum a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for either, but believe that value to be low.  More if they are packaged with one of the other mentioned players. 

 

Either would likely be the most sought after defenders available for the TDL for any cup team and both are on food contracts for the following season. 

 

Thoughts and ideas of who would be ideal partners for trades?

 

 

EW

First off you make some good points.

 

 

Burrows and Miller should go

 

Id resign Burrows in the off-season tho 

 

But trading Tanev is stupid bcuz he keeps the defence in check.

 

Edler trade is also stupid because management wants to keep him just like they want to keep Sedins.

 

U are crazy if you think Sbisa isn't the odd man out therefore I think he should be traded as well.

 

Id also say a Gudbranson trade is stupid because they just traded for him and thinking he's gonna leave the team after half a season playing injured is ridiculous. 

 

 

 

And lastly, trading Hansen is awesome but if we got juulsen and a 3rd back id be disappointed af. Juulsen is overrated garbage.

 

 

I do however like Hansen for bowey but that's unrealistic to think they'd get rid of they're top d prospect for a 31 year old. Albeit they could use him. 

[mll]

1 hour ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Yeah I don't what the yotes are planning. They were said to be interest in trying the acquire a top 4 RHD. They were rumoured to be taking to blues about shattenkirk and the flames about Hamilton. Those players wouldn't come cheap so you want have to assume they are prepared to give up some value. I wouldn't move tanev for anything less than domi from arz. So that would be the price I'd be asking for. 

Two high point producing RH PMDs who can QB a PP.  Not sure Tanev would interest them if that's the type of Ds they are looking for. 

Doesn't Domi mean as much to them as Horvat means to the Canucks - I feel he is pretty much untouchable.

 

Btw the asking price re Friedman for Hanzal, a UFA,  from Montreal is McCarron + a 1st + a conditional pick.  

[Kelly Green]

i would try to make these moves before the draft

 

miller to dallas - they desperately need consistent goaltending, and defense

 

edler and burrows to washington - depth on defense for the playoffs , and a replacement for alzner who will possibly be ufa, and burrows for that x factor to help get by pittsburgh

 

tanev and hansen to the highest bidders -  tampa, winnipeg, buffalo ?

 

the deadline is coming up quick, hopefully benning can add some young players and picks this year!

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Just now, mll said:

Two high point producing RH PMDs who can QB a PP.  Not sure Tanev would interest them if that's the type of Ds they are looking for. 

Doesn't Domi mean as much to them as Horvat means to the Canucks - I feel he is pretty much untouchable.

 

Btw the asking price re Friedman for Hanzal, a UFA,  from Montreal is McCarron + a 1st + a conditional pick.  

I think they were looking more based on players available more than a type of skill set.  From the sounds of it, the talking didn't go far.  And they already their PMD, PP QB.  OEL is better than both of the other two.  A shutdown RHD would do wonders for their top pairing.

 

I also don't think they view Domi at their future.  Keller and Strome are.  They have a ton of prospects in their system.  Dvorak, Perlini, Crouse, Merkley, Duclair along with their top 5 pick this year.   

 

I have a hard time gauging their future plan.  On one side you have a 25 year old OEL who you can build a team around, but on the other side you have a boatload of young players in your system,  Do you build around that stud D, or do you give it 5 more years of rebuilding and letting those young players become the core.  The fact that they were interested in Shattenkirk and Dougie makes me assume they' prefer to build from the back end out and at a quicker pace than the players will develop.  If that's the case Tanev and Granlund have value. 

[Pears]

I wouldn't mind Tanev for Domi but I don't think we have to add. Miller with how he's going right now shouldn't have a problem getting a late 1st or a 2nd and a B level prospect. 

1 hour ago, qwijibo said:

I don't see Montreal having much interest in any of the potential Canucks that might be available. But especially NOT Miller.  

 

Montoya is far from terrible (as you suggested). He's put up a record of 7-4-2 and recently earned a 2 year extension due to his solid play.   Montreal picking up Miller solves a problem that doesn't exist and creates several new ones for Montreal.  (Salary cap, expansion issues)

Lol don't fool yourself. Montreal would love Burrows with his salary retained at 50%. 

[qwijibo]

5 minutes ago, Pears said:

I wouldn't mind Tanev for Domi but I don't think we have to add. Miller with how he's going right now shouldn't have a problem getting a late 1st or a 2nd and a B level prospect. 

Lol don't fool yourself. Montreal would love Burrows with his salary retained at 50%. 

Where exactly does Burrows fit into the Montreal lineup?  He's not a top 6 guy there and they're flush with bottom 6 guys.  Other than him being French I really don't see the fit 

[Vinny in Vancouver]

4 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Tanev to ARZ make the best sense.  They are one of the few teams needing a RHD and his analytic's make him especially valuable to Chayka.

 

Tanev + Granlund for Domi + 3rd

 

Imho, you are probably doing one or both of the following:

• overvaluing:
  • Max Domi (and here I thought I was one of the biggest Domi fans in CDC; his PPG is lower than last year's) or
  • how good this year's draft is (considered by many to be a weak one after the top few players)
• undervaluing:
  • Tanev (good enough to get invited to Team Canada; signed to a reasonable contract for a few years)
  • Granlund (top-6 forward with numbers to support it)

[ForsbergTheGreat]

3 minutes ago, vinny_in_vancouver said:

Imho, you are probably doing one or both of the following:

• overvaluing:
  • Max Domi (and here I thought I was one of the biggest Domi fans in CDC; his PPG is lower than last year's) or
  • how good this year's draft is (considered by many to be a weak one after the top few players)
• undervaluing:
  • Tanev (good enough to get invited to Team Canada; signed to a reasonable contract for a few years)
  • Granlund (top-6 forward with numbers to support it)

Probably a bit of both to be honest.

 

But with expansion and canucks needing to either move some players or lose someone with value. I'm ok with slightly overpaying to fill a need.  Sometimes it's better to fill that need than it is to wait by trying to make sure you're getting full value. 

 

 

[Phat Fingers]

3 hours ago, Rick Blight said:

Do you think we could get more players on these type of contracts? Should create a lot of cap space to pursue UFA's........

Well played sir... Well played . 

 

Editing my auto correct.  Damned I phone. 

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, Eastcoast meets Westcoast said:

I don't usually start threads, but when I do...

 

Hear me out, we have a bubble team exceeding expectations this season (65pts  ) that is a potential wildcard team.  I believe this is due to poor performances from teams that should be better this year (LA, Cal and Win). 

 

I am stoked that we have had good growth from most of our young players and love the new d core. My hope is that JB recognizes that we should move out some older vets at the TDL and early off season rather than add. I believe we cannot afford to lose any real talent to LV and need to make smart moves to protect our younger players. 

 

Added to that, we have two vets on expiring deals that should garner some attention at the TDL. The following players are the ones that I think have value and could/should be moved to further the "retool".  Vancouver can retain salary or take back cap hits to facilitate a deal. 

 

Miller.  Awesome addition, has really shown he is a legit veteran who can add a lot of security to a contender with questions in goal. 

 

Teams that could/should be interested. Edm, LA, Mon (Montoya is awful), Ana.  Can't see him getting more than a 2nd after his flop in STL.

 

Burrows.  It would be awesome to get a 2nd, but I would expect a 3rd for the dragon slayer. He has lost a bit, but has had a great bounce back season and is the type of player that teams love to add for the playoffs. 

 

Montreal has been mentioned. It would be a great story of he went back there, but many teams should be interested.

 

The two above moves are fairly straightforward and only losing Miller would dampen expectations this season.

 

The hard moves this year I believe should occur is designed to preserve assets from LV. 

 

Hansen, awesome cap hit, limited NTC and the exact type of player any team wants. But he is 31 this year and we have to consider that one of Baer or Granlund would be exposed to LV if we keep Hansen. For that reason, trade Hansen at near peak value and get a much better return. 

 

Hansen could start a bidding war and get a low 1st at min.  I would like to see a waiver exempt legit prospect over a pick.  For example, Montreal gets Hansen, Vancouver gets Juulsen and a 3rd or Wash gives up Bowey for Hansen. 

 

Next, our Defence needs to be thinned out in the top four. Guddy has poor value right now and I like his physical play and leadership abilities. So he's out.  

 

Sbisa is proving his worth this year, is just 25 and I don't believe he would get much return based on his inconsistency issues from his past years. He is great for Van, can play both sides and is a great top 4 place holder until our younger players can step up. 

 

This leaves Tanev and Edler. A case can be made to keep or trade either.  Tanev can go to any team and I think would have the highest return, but he is young and fits in exactly with the 'retool on the fly' approach JB has taken.  Edler has a NTC and injury issues (back) that might limit return.  

 

At minimum a 1st rounder and a decent prospect for either, but believe that value to be low.  More if they are packaged with one of the other mentioned players. 

 

Either would likely be the most sought after defenders available for the TDL for any cup team and both are on good contracts for the following season. 

 

Thoughts and ideas of who would be ideal partners for trades?

 

 

EW

Slowly and forcefully taps stick on boards in appreciation.  Your approach almost exactly mimicks mine.

 

Like others I am dubious that Benning will not sell at the deadline if we remain in hunt for a play off spot.  May not buy?  But will not sell.  But it hurt us to get nothing for Vrbata, Mathias, Hamhuis the last few years.   Look at San Jose, clearly still a contender, but they just traded Wingels.  Beacause they know his time was due.  As they traded Setogouchi (got Burns FFS) Ryan Clowe and others in a bid to constantly recycle in the past.  They kept Marleau / Thornton, aka our Twins. But they have recycled everything in the level just below on an ongoing basis. They should be a model!

 

The only difference is, and I'm sure Benning won't, I would push for an Edler versus Tanev trade.  Tanev is younger, at this stage better, and plays a position (right handed D) shorter in supply on our team. And throughout the league, therefore harder to replace. Stating again with no heir apparent here already,

[Canuck Surfer]

I also doubt Tanev, with 3 years left on his pact, will command Domi. With his career ahead of him...

[Phat Fingers]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Slowly and forcefully taps stick on boards in appreciation.  Your approach almost exactly mimicks mine.

 

Like others I am dubious that Benning will not sell at the deadline if we remain in hunt for a play off spot.  May not buy?  But will not sell.  But it hurt us to get nothing for Vrbata, Mathias, Hamhuis the last few years.   Look at San Jose, clearly still a contender, but they just traded Wingels.  Beacause they know his time was due.  As they traded Setogouchi (got Burns FFS) Ryan Clowe and others in a bid to constantly recycle in the past.  They kept Marleau / Thornton, aka our Twins. But they have recycled everything in the level just below on an ongoing basis. They should be a model!

 

The only difference is, and I'm sure Benning won't, I would push for an Edler versus Tanev trade.  Tanev is younger, at this stage better, and plays a position (right handed D) shorter in supply on our team. And throughout the league, therefore harder to replace. Stating again with no heir apparent here already,

 We will be Randolf and Mortimer yelling 'Sell! Sell! Sell!" at the deadline.