SabreFan1 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 8:47 AM, HorvatToBaertschi said: I think you're simply just perpetuating an ancient stereotype saying that all the french do is surrender. Historically speaking, they've won the most battles and wars of all time in earth's history. How many people do you think they made surrender? France was simply just terribly located during the German invasion, being neighbors with the most terrorising military force of all time, Nazi Germany. Many other countries were in the same predicament; Netherlands, Poland and Belgium to note, but none of those 3 were as significant of powers at the time as France was. Links to open your mind/eyes: https://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-won-the-most-wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLKVaJwpXY https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13cxs4/til_that_the_french_military_actually_has_the/ France is one of the oldest civilizations/countries in the world. It has seen many conflicts, battles and wars, and won and decimated countless of enemies. It does not have a culture of surrendering. I'm not proud or anything, but I am kind of sick of the generalization that the french just surrender constantly when history really speaks for itself. When I have more time to spend, I'll check out your links. Unfortunately with just a cursory glance at the sites, I see all 3 are from non-academic sources. Reddit, YouTube, and Quora aren't exactly scholarly places on the web. I'm glad that you didn't throw 4chan in there at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 5:47 AM, HorvatToBaertschi said: I think you're simply just perpetuating an ancient stereotype saying that all the french do is surrender. Historically speaking, they've won the most battles and wars of all time in earth's history. How many people do you think they made surrender? France was simply just terribly located during the German invasion, being neighbors with the most terrorising military force of all time, Nazi Germany. Many other countries were in the same predicament; Netherlands, Poland and Belgium to note, but none of those 3 were as significant of powers at the time as France was. Links to open your mind/eyes: https://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-won-the-most-wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLKVaJwpXY https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13cxs4/til_that_the_french_military_actually_has_the/ France is one of the oldest civilizations/countries in the world. It has seen many conflicts, battles and wars, and won and decimated countless of enemies. It does not have a culture of surrendering. I'm not proud or anything, but I am kind of sick of the generalization that the french just surrender constantly when history really speaks for itself. I found it funny how you claim surrendering as an ancient stereotype, but try to use their far more historical success as a basis for their heightened military prowess. The Quora link was interesting, and apparently academic, so that helps. However, the fact remains that France surrendered in WWII, and their stubbornness followed by their failure to keep French Indochina led to the Vietnam war, something many of us could have done without. Their efforts after surrender in WWII were frustrating to say the least, a regular annoyance to FDR and Churchill. That is their recent military history, and supports the derisive claims of many. Any success they had against Romans, English, and others centuries ago is less relevant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Kragar said: I found it funny how you claim surrendering as an ancient stereotype, but try to use their far more historical success as a basis for their heightened military prowess. The Quora link was interesting, and apparently academic, so that helps. However, the fact remains that France surrendered in WWII, and their stubbornness followed by their failure to keep French Indochina led to the Vietnam war, something many of us could have done without. Their efforts after surrender in WWII were frustrating to say the least, a regular annoyance to FDR and Churchill. That is their recent military history, and supports the derisive claims of many. Any success they had against Romans, English, and others centuries ago is less relevant. I just sincerely believe any nation that poorly located against such an evil military and regime would have been invaded just as much. Easy for the Brits, they're across a pond and still got their capital demolished by the germans. The Americans never faced any threat of invasion either being 9000 km away from Nazi Germany and even further from Japan. I mean they did surrender in both London and Pearl Harbour but nobody will ever talk about that, it’s too easy to criticize the french for some reason. Surrendering once in the last century is definetely not stereotype-worthy. The french destroyed IndoChina and Northern Africa, and retreated. They didn’t surrender. Edited July 25, 2019 by HorvatToBaertschi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 12 hours ago, SabreFan1 said: When I have more time to spend, I'll check out your links. Unfortunately with just a cursory glance at the sites, I see all 3 are from non-academic sources. Reddit, YouTube, and Quora aren't exactly scholarly places on the web. I'm glad that you didn't throw 4chan in there at least. To be honest i just went straight to google to prove how easy it is to inform one’s self about France’s military history. The rest is merely a stereotype, WWII was very unfortunate for a lot of countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I just sincerely believe any nation that poorly located against such an evil military and regime would have been invaded just as much. Easy for the Brits, they're across a pond and still got their capital demolished by the germans. The Americans never faced any threat of invasion either being 9000 km away from Nazi Germany and even further from Japan. I mean they did surrender in both London and Pearl Harbour but nobody will ever talk about that, it’s too easy to criticize the french for some reason. Surrendering once in the last century is definetely not stereotype-worthy. The french destroyed IndoChina and Northern Africa, and retreated. They didn’t surrender. Are you saying France did not surrender all colonial territory in Southeast Asia, held for about 70 years minus some time during WWII? Solely retreating from your own territory means you intend to take it back later in the conflict. There was zero intention of France restoring their hold in the region after signing the Geneva Agreements. Neither London nor Pearl Harbor were captured, let alone did they ever surrender. Do you not remember Churchill's speech? BTW, the Japanese also bombed Oregon... did they surrender too? Surrendering twice in the last century, and coming damn close to doing it a third time in WWI, is grounds for a little scorn from others, IMO. As far as major conflicts go, that's almost 0 for 3. And given the audacity to remove themselves from almost all NATO agreements for 40 years (except the one that eventually protects them the most), well, I don't know what more to say. If they had withdrawn from Indochina, as requested by pretty much everyone else, and actually earned some modern military respect before demanding it, many people would feel differently about them today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 6 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I just sincerely believe any nation that poorly located against such an evil military and regime would have been invaded just as much. Easy for the Brits, they're across a pond and still got their capital demolished by the germans. The Americans never faced any threat of invasion either being 9000 km away from Nazi Germany and even further from Japan. I mean they did surrender in both London and Pearl Harbour but nobody will ever talk about that, it’s too easy to criticize the french for some reason. Surrendering once in the last century is definetely not stereotype-worthy. The french destroyed IndoChina and Northern Africa, and retreated. They didn’t surrender. You must have different history books over there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 9 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: You must have different history books over there. I was just stating a loss as a surrender which is what has been happening to France. As in France lost battles that were considered surrenders when they really weren’t. That was the point I was trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 2 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: I was just stating a loss as a surrender which is what has been happening to France. As in France lost battles that were considered surrenders when they really weren’t. That was the point I was trying to make. Your point is flawed, though. Any country with a military history is going to have lost battles where soldiers on the losing side surrender. In this case we we talking about the recent history of the three largest conflicts France participated in since the start of WWI, and the formal surrender of sovereignty of their territory (majority of France in WWII, all of French Indochina in the 1950s). It is disingenuous to suggest that these were just some "lost battles". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kragar said: Your point is flawed, though. Any country with a military history is going to have lost battles where soldiers on the losing side surrender. In this case we we talking about the recent history of the three largest conflicts France participated in since the start of WWI, and the formal surrender of sovereignty of their territory (majority of France in WWII, all of French Indochina in the 1950s). It is disingenuous to suggest that these were just some "lost battles". 1066 the French won England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted July 25, 2019 Share Posted July 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: 1066 the French won England. What have they done for us lately France has had a successful history in warfare, most notably in the past. That is not to suggest they are not worthy of alliance today. It would just help to put a few in the win column before strutting about. Let's use our favorite sport as a metaphor: Leafs - 1967. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boeserker Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 hours ago, Kragar said: What have they done for us lately France has had a successful history in warfare, most notably in the past. That is not to suggest they are not worthy of alliance today. It would just help to put a few in the win column before strutting about. Let's use our favorite sport as a metaphor: Leafs - 1967. Ya, most of their success came before expansion (gun powder and the internal combustion engine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) double post Edited July 26, 2019 by FaninMex wrong link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaninMex Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 7/23/2019 at 2:47 PM, HorvatToBaertschi said: I think you're simply just perpetuating an ancient stereotype saying that all the french do is surrender. Historically speaking, they've won the most battles and wars of all time in earth's history. How many people do you think they made surrender? France was simply just terribly located during the German invasion, being neighbors with the most terrorising military force of all time, Nazi Germany. Many other countries were in the same predicament; Netherlands, Poland and Belgium to note, but none of those 3 were as significant of powers at the time as France was. Links to open your mind/eyes: https://www.quora.com/Which-country-has-won-the-most-wars https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgLKVaJwpXY https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/13cxs4/til_that_the_french_military_actually_has_the/ France is one of the oldest civilizations/countries in the world. It has seen many conflicts, battles and wars, and won and decimated countless of enemies. It does not have a culture of surrendering. I'm not proud or anything, but I am kind of sick of the generalization that the french just surrender constantly when history really speaks for itself. The allies and the French did not face the biggest and baddest German army. I can only post the playlist for some reason. Ep. 37 and on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 France got hammered in ww2 because of two things Their reliance on the Maginot wall/line, which the Germans did not attack. The fact that Germany had invented or at least greatly advanced the art of blitzkrieg, and armoured war. If there was a land link to Britain they too would have fallen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorvatToBaertschi Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Kragar said: What have they done for us lately France has had a successful history in warfare, most notably in the past. That is not to suggest they are not worthy of alliance today. It would just help to put a few in the win column before strutting about. Let's use our favorite sport as a metaphor: Leafs - 1967. My original reply was to someone who said that the french were not an ideal alliance today because they surrender too much (obviously paraphrasing). I agree the 20th century was not kind to the french military, and that even today the war on terrorism is being felt heavily in France (compared to other 1st world countries, I do realize many 3rd world countries are far more hit than we were/are). It is important to note that France has since the Algerian war, been very active in helping its allies when deemed necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 15 hours ago, Alflives said: 1066 the French won England. This reminds me of the time a few years back, when I took my daughter to McDonalds to buy her breakfast. The kid behind the counter was about her age. (both High Schoolers) He told us that the total came to $10.66, to which I said, "Hey! Battle of Hastings!" I received completely blank looks from both of them... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kragar Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 7 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said: My original reply was to someone who said that the french were not an ideal alliance today because they surrender too much (obviously paraphrasing). I agree the 20th century was not kind to the french military, and that even today the war on terrorism is being felt heavily in France (compared to other 1st world countries, I do realize many 3rd world countries are far more hit than we were/are). It is important to note that France has since the Algerian war, been very active in helping its allies when deemed necessary. That's fair, thanks. DeGaulle pulling French support from NATO was still disappointing, and France restoring full membership only 10 years ago may lead to some harboring doubts here and there. But time can heal all those wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted September 15, 2019 Author Share Posted September 15, 2019 This Saudi oil field attack is pretty disconcerting. Houthis & the Blowfish? Oil prices might just skyrocket too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuxfanabroad Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Pls don't tell me they're gonna destroy another country. Zerohedge articles sound like the drumbeat of war is building. What has happened to the west? If there truly is a God in Heaven, this period's warmongers will be judged SEVERELY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said: Pls don't tell me they're gonna destroy another country. Zerohedge articles sound like the drumbeat of war is building. What has happened to the west? If there truly is a God in Heaven, this period's warmongers will be judged SEVERELY! Unfortunately, I don't think there is.....and I don't think they will be.... They'll go on being rich, entitled scumbags until they die, at which point their kids will continue the rich, entitled, scumbag family tradition.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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