The Rebuild Kicked Off With Acquiring Bo, & Was Completed at 2019 Draft!

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

There are so many variables to building a team, so I don't like to try & condense/summarize into a sentence, or two. That said, I agree with you on a coupla' contract blunders, & the inability to deal with bad contracts.

 

Although no two scenarios are the same, I think the Jets serve as a decent example. For quite a while(I don't know, 2 or 3 seasons?) many fans wanted Chevy to get busy, & make moves. He was patient, holding back prospects 'til the dam was ready to burst. Then he finally started making moves, highlighted by the Kane/Buffalo, worthy swap.

 

Say Sutter finally has some health, next season. At TDL we eat 30 or 40% of his hit. Perhaps get back a 3rd & decent prospect? At the end of the day, that's a HELLUVA-lot better than being saddled with a 6.8 mill Kesler-albatross. You could also apply this rationale to Pearson(the 2 main remaining pieces from that 2014 deal). These guys are simply placeholders, until our kids are ready. If we turn these 2 guys into(even just) a 2nd & 3rd it's fine..considering the excellent decade of service we already got from the 2003 Kesler 1st r pick.

 

This IS the period for patience. Just like the Jets, when the kids are ready, make the moves(still perhaps 12-18 mos out).

 

I don't want them to get aggressive for FA's this summer. Keep filtering in youth, speed & size. UFA's should mostly be icing on the cake.

Great summary and perspective. Your point about Chevy and the Jets is excellent. Patience and another draft that should give us another two potential NHL players. As

the youth and prospects mature Benning will gain more flexibility. Building a team is measured in years not a flurry of TDL deals. 

[canucksnihilist]

The jets had way more picks.  Way more young players in the system.  Not even close when comparing the level of young talent.  The jets didnt fill their roster with bottom 6 FAs... they let their young players pkay.  

 

We arent on a path to winning.  Until we change course and stockpile picks. And stop signing mid level FAs. 

[mephnick]

14 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Great summary and perspective. Your point about Chevy and the Jets is excellent. 

Except the Jets/Thrashers were terrible for a literal decade. That got them a lot of prospects. It's kind of hard to compare us and them when we've only been bad for 3 seasons. Do we really want to follow the Jets example and be "patient" (suck) for 7 more years?

 

Reminder: The Jets haven't won F all yet.

[canucksnihilist]

13 minutes ago, mephnick said:

Except the Jets/Thrashers were terrible for a literal decade. That got them a lot of prospects. It's kind of hard to compare us and them when we've only been bad for 3 seasons. Do we really want to follow the Jets example and be "patient" (suck) for 7 more years?

 

Reminder: The Jets haven't won F all yet.

There isnt much choice.   Maybe with good drafting it can be leasened.  But not with trading away picks.

[canucksnihilist]

Sorry for the negativity. 

 

I just cant help wonder what the team would have been like if we had even just kept our picks and didn't give up on young players as quick (trades for older players)

 

If the management has really stopped trading away picks and doesnt sign mid level FAs then im still on board.  But we did waste some years so we arent ready to really compete yet...

 

Edited March 9, 2019 by canucksnihilist

[Dungass]

The reality is, if next season plays out anything in the manner like this one, standings wise, ol'trader Jim is gone faster than a prom date's dress.  In fact, I would expect the rumblings to start growing in volume as the season winds down and into the off-season.

[mephnick]

2 hours ago, Dungass said:

The reality is, if next season plays out anything in the manner like this one, standings wise, ol'trader Jim is gone faster than a prom date's dress.  In fact, I would expect the rumblings to start growing in volume as the season winds down and into the off-season.

Chevy got 8 years to build his team (which only became competent 2 seasons ago) but Benning gets canned after 4 years showing progress?

Edited March 9, 2019 by mephnick

[Guest]

4 hours ago, canucksnihilist said:

If we keep trading away picks we will never get there.   Lets see how it goes this next year.

 

the team would be better off with all their picks they traded away instead of all the players acquired for those picks - by a mile.  Which has extended the rebuild by a mile...

 

Problem is the team keeps wanting to get young players instead of picks.   Which means they get players other teams are willing to give up on...  consistently.   When has JB ever tried to accumulate picks?  Why try to be competitive now at the same instead?   Cant have it both ways - you end up not having it either way.

 

aged FAs and players other teams didnt want.  Some will be worth it.  But mostly it wont be enough to compete against good teams.  Let alone won a cup

 

right now the team should be full of picks we have drafted.  But we gave that up so we could win now and be competitive - and still finish at the bottom part of the standings.   And be terribly unentertaining.  How can anyone see the recent history and think there was a long term plan there?

Baertchi has turned out to be much much better then a 2nd round pick. 

 

Granlund has surpassed the expectation of the pick that was traded for him as well.  

 

You realize that the AVERAGE 2nd round pick is UNLIKELY to see 100 games in the NHL? 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Baertchi has turned out to be much much better then a 2nd round pick. 

 

Granlund has surpassed the expectation of the pick that was traded for him as well.  

 

You realize that the AVERAGE 2nd round pick is UNLIKELY to see 100 games in the NHL? 

We don’t want players, who are just okay.  We need star players, who make a difference.  Those star players, especially on D, come from roundstso and three sometimes.  Yes, Baer is okay, and better than the average second round pick, but he’s not a difference maker.  

[Dungass]

10 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Baertchi has turned out to be much much better then a 2nd round pick. 

 

Granlund has surpassed the expectation of the pick that was traded for him as well.  

 

You realize that the AVERAGE 2nd round pick is UNLIKELY to see 100 games in the NHL? 

Won't fault Benning on the Granlund trade, that was a reclamation project swap, and we got the better one.  But, as popular as Sven has been in Vancouver, he hasn't been able to stay healthy.  The Flames used that pick on Rasmus Andersson, would look pretty darn good on our blue line right now.

[Nuxfanabroad]

8 hours ago, canucksnihilist said:

The jets had way more picks.  Way more young players in the system.  Not even close when comparing the level of young talent.  The jets didnt fill their roster with bottom 6 FAs... they let their young players pkay.  

 

We arent on a path to winning.  Until we change course and stockpile picks. And stop signing mid level FAs. 

 

8 hours ago, mephnick said:

Except the Jets/Thrashers were terrible for a literal decade. That got them a lot of prospects. It's kind of hard to compare us and them when we've only been bad for 3 seasons. Do we really want to follow the Jets example and be "patient" (suck) for 7 more years?

 

Reminder: The Jets haven't won F all yet.

Of course there are so many differences between the two. Almost impossible to find two teams with a mirror-image scenario. Point wanted to make was that it appears Chevy was wise to be patient, before aggressively trying to improve his roster. Last couple deadlines, he could spend some excess youth/picks for desired pieces.

 

But I don't think the Thrashers drafted too well(lazy to research such detail)..just as we had a drafting black hole from about 2006~2012. So I'd say one can draw some parallels here, especially when we factor in JB's comparatively excellent 2014 -> drafting. Sure we woulda' liked more picks..but they had to ice some semblance of a roster. Can't we all move on from that past hang-up? With the picks we DID have(2014-2018) why can't we all appreciate the batting %?

 

So I stand by this comparison. Jets are a coupla' yrs ahead within cycles, but I think they're a worthy example to emulate.

[canucksnihilist]

2 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

Of course there are so many differences between the two. Almost impossible to find two teams with a mirror-image scenario. Point wanted to make was that it appears Chevy was wise to be patient, before aggressively trying to improve his roster. Last couple deadlines, he could spend some excess youth/picks for desired pieces.

 

But I don't think the Thrashers drafted too well(lazy to research such detail)..just as we had a drafting black hole from about 2006~2012. So I'd say one can draw some parallels here, especially when we factor in JB's comparatively excellent 2014 -> drafting. Sure we woulda' liked more picks..but they had to ice some semblance of a roster. Can't we all move on from that past hang-up? With the picks we DID have(2014-2018) why can't we all appreciate the batting %?

 

So I stand by this comparison. Jets are a coupla' yrs ahead within cycles, but I think they're a worthy example to emulate.

Ya lets move on.  JB seems to be focused on keeping picks - so Im happy with that.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Currently:

26- Van..71 gp .. 68 pts

27- ANA ..73 gp ..67 pts

28- NJD ..72 gp ..63 pts

 

Rags, BuffSlugs & EDM are only 1 pt above us.

 

The perspective with about 10 games left. Sure would be nice to wind up around #27 OA.

[Nuxfanabroad]

It's time to finalize this thread's Title-shifting theme. Long timers will recognize that in Fall, 2017, it started as a re-jig/no/build/tool(etc...) at 80%, & progressed thru that season to the full 100%. Fall 2018 we mostly felt we'd be dive-bombing for a top-5 at the home-draft; yet Markstrom was too proud/awesome to accept such mediocrity!

 

IMHO, this whole phase was kicked off by acquiring leader Bo. Six yrs seems pretty standard to get a total makeover, & from this period going forwards, predict we'll see a (fairly steady) upwards trajectory.

 

So yeah.. 6 yrs is a long, tough slog for us Nuck-diehards. But the final title emphasizes what began in June, 2013:

 

The Rebuild Kicked Off With Acquiring Bo!

[rekker]

Bo is the heart and soul of his team and my favourite Canuck. If the brass over thinks the captaincy and gives it to someone else I will be choked. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, rekker said:

Bo is the heart and soul of his team and my favourite Canuck. If the brass over thinks the captaincy and gives it to someone else I will be choked. 

Won't happen. Henrik hands the 'C' jersey over to Bo, to start the yr off right.

[189lb enforcers?]

It did?

Trading a stud-kid backup goalie instead of the aged vet starter was a rebuilding move?

 

[lmm]

On 3/9/2019 at 11:45 AM, VancouverHabitant said:

Baertchi has turned out to be much much better then a 2nd round pick. 

 

Granlund has surpassed the expectation of the pick that was traded for him as well.  

 

You realize that the AVERAGE 2nd round pick is UNLIKELY to see 100 games in the NHL? 

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=120612

 

Sven has turned out to be what he always was, injury prone.

He has acheived 69 games twice in his career, the season he was traded to the Canucks and the following season.

He missed 25 games the year after he was drafted. Calgary cut bait on a skilled winger with injury problems.

 

Granlund surpassed the player he was traded for, who seems to be sinking every year. Good trade for Jim.

 

Why do you care about "Average 2nd rounders" ? 

Duncan Keith and Shea Webber come from the second round. Jim is supposed to find jems like that with his picks.

Average is not much better than the team is now = not good enough 

the average goal production from the 1st round of the 2015 draft = 33 career goals

Brock is tied for 6th at 59 goals while McD and Eichel are over 100 - we are not looking for average.

[oldnews]

On 10/3/2017 at 7:36 AM, Crabcakes said:

The Canucks needed a total team renewal from top to bottom (Canucks and Comets).  

 

In the beginning they attempted a retool.  I define this as keeping the core and replacing the support players.  It was known that time was ticking on the Sedins, Burrows, Hansen and others.  It was felt that by this year (and Hank said this 2 years ago) that the team could be on the rise again and ready for a playoff run.  How?  Horvat was already in the system and Benning was targeting young 20's players to speed up the process (Gudbranson, Granlund, Baertschi etc)

 

As with any plan, progress has to be reviewed and adjusted as it is rolled out.  Something happened by the mid season review last year.  It was clear that the old core was declining fast (Sedins) and that they would no longer be able to carry the team forward.  So ownership and management had come to terms with this.  A rebuild (replacing the core) was necessary and they had to switch focus to support younger players.  Burrows and Hansen were moved for prospects.  

 

Without drifting into an essay here, I think the Canucks bottomed out last year.  We are seeing Bennings draft picks well and truly ready to play in the NHL (Boeser, Virtanen) and growing depth and competition within the organization.  Older players have been brought in on mostly 1 year contracts to fill line up spots until young players are ready to fill the positions.

 

It's not about tanking.  It's about getting good pieces and developing them.

 

 

Just a semantic point here, but I don't think retools necessarily involve trading merely secondary players.

 

I look at a team like Boston - and what they did to pre-empt a 'rebuild' - by moving players like Hamilton, Lucic, Martin Jones.....were any of them 'core'?  I don't necessarily care to debate that, but Hamilton was 21, Lucic was 25ish, Jones was 24/25....and they got a winfall out of them, including 3x 1sts, 2x 2nds, and Kuraly (really, that return was on just Hamilton and Lucic alone).    Not sure the Canucks had such assets, let alone a remaining, younger core to continue forward with.

So 'retooling' imo was never really an option for Vancouver - that is unless it were undertaken in the heart of the Gillis era - which the Schneider deal actually resembled the B's Jones deal....

 

The thing with the Canucks at the time Benning stepped in - I don't think Burrows had any value at all - that needed to be 'rebuilt'.   Guys like Higgins likewise, bad timing to try to deal him in the wake of Tortorella.    Key assets like Sedins, Edler = untradeable/limiting clauses.  

 

In the end 'excuses' are irrelevent - but every particular player in context is absolutely relevent - so what was possible...is debatable. Really, Kesler was the principal 'retoolable' asset the Canucks had, and I think they did ok moving him.   Some other secondary guys - Garrison, Bieksa etc = not bad.  Some bad luck with injury timing and limiting clauses (Hamhuis, Higgins...), some more recent (Tanev at this deadline)....but the big sweeping one-liner stories around this are pointless, and myopic.

The Canucks didn't really have as young a group as Boston when they won - and retooling wasn't really a viable path for Benning imo - nor really, was a tear-down.  I think the metred, measured thing was in the cards so to speak, and I'm satisfied enough with what he did - in context.  I think Gillis - and Benning - both knew that they needed  to transition, but I also think the reality was that it wouldn't be as easy a process as for some other teams, particularly after the Tortorella experiment, which imo set them back a couple more years.

Edited April 19, 2019 by oldnews

[Nuxfanabroad]

5 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

It did?

Trading a stud-kid backup goalie instead of the aged vet starter was a rebuilding move?

 

Yes. Not having Scheids(when on top of his game) enabled us to draft higher..even if the lotto never rolls our way. Said this TWO yrs back in the original post.

 

We've had a great 10-12 yr run for 'tending. Looks like that's lining up again..& landing Bo with one of these assets? How can we complain there?!