oldnews Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 53 minutes ago, mll said: Kuzma asked Benning about that rumour and wrote this: http://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/kuzma-canucks-see-value-in-erik-gudbranson-others-see-trade-bait If you listen to Canucks general manager Jim Benning, there’s a different take on all this and the Demers rumour. “It was nowhere near what was out there in the media,” he stressed. “I didn’t comment on it because I don’t know how these things get out there. I get calls from the GMs about our players and we talk, but that’s all that was. It was just talk. “Erik is hard to play against and gives us some push back. When you talk about intangibles, he’s a leader in our group with young players and will stick up for his teammates. There is an important role for him with our team. “There’s a mutual thing with his agent. Let’s just see where this goes. From their perspective, they want to feel comfortable in a new city and find his niche. We agreed to let it play out and when the time is right, we’ll talk about it.” Thanks for that - hadn't seen Kuzma's piece on it (rarely look at anything from the Province, but if there's ever anything worth reading, it's from the far less vocal Kuzma). The funny thing that people rarely seem to understand - if we're going to speculate on what Benning would or might do, it helps to actually attempt to think about it as Benning might. The naysaying 'analyticz' types like CA - are simply not capable of understanding Benning's perspective. Repeating the same misrepresentations and devaluations based on their own particular perspective is a fail - it's almost as though they think their unfound arrogance is going to rub off and change Benning's thinking. Good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, oldnews said: Thanks for that - hadn't seen Kuzma's piece on it (rarely look at anything from the Province, but if there's ever anything worth reading, it's from the far less vocal Kuzma). The funny thing that people rarely seem to understand - if we're going to speculate on what Benning would or might do, it helps to actually attempt to think about it as Benning might. The naysaying 'analyticz' types like CA - are simply not capable of understanding Benning's perspective. Repeating the same misrepresentations and devaluations based on their own particular perspective is a fail - it's almost as though they think their unfound arrogance is going to rub off and change Benning's thinking. Good luck with that. Mutual agreement. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, rekker said: Just Hockey DB Nielsen. Good prospect actually. Got some grit and size that we need. Him and a second and I'm inclined to go for that. Those thinking Lijigren are dreaming. Even a first alone is a dream. Nielsen can't skate and doesn't use his size. He has a good shot and is basically a minor league PP specialist at best. I wouldn't give Biegas spot to him so..... Zero interest. Would be basically trading Gud for a 3rd and a D for Utica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, hammertime said: Nielsen can't skate and doesn't use his size. He has a good shot and is basically a minor league PP specialist at best. I wouldn't give Biegas spot to him so..... Zero interest. Would be basically trading Gud for a 3rd and a D for Utica. Ok. Looks like you know more about him than I do that's for sure. If that's the case then a no to that proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monty Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 hours ago, hammertime said: Nielsen can't skate and doesn't use his size. He has a good shot and is basically a minor league PP specialist at best. I wouldn't give Biegas spot to him so..... Zero interest. Would be basically trading Gud for a 3rd and a D for Utica. Heard the same thing about Nielsen several months ago regarding his skating. He certainly has offensive capabilities, but needs to work on his defense. And that’s a tough thing to do when you’re not the strongest skater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 1 hour ago, hammertime said: Heard TO offered Andrew Nielsen and a 3rd for Gud. No thanks. Maybe the Leafs are showcasing Dermott tonight for a proposal along these lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammertime Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Getting warmer there. Though I dread the thought of all of these kids in the lineup next year without a babysitter. I have no problem with giving Gud 5m per to protect the kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, rekker said: Maybe the Leafs are showcasing Dermott tonight for a proposal along these lines? Had a similar thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garthsbutcher Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Guddy in a sign and trade and Gaunce for Gardner and Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, garthsbutcher said: Hodgson and Burmistrov for Gardner and Martin. ftfy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rush17 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 mcderrmott and a 1st please. that or give us marner ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zduck14 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 For what it's worth, which I realize isn't much, Don Cherry figures Gudbranson would cost the leafs a Brown or Marner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 hours ago, rekker said: Maybe the Leafs are showcasing Dermott tonight for a proposal along these lines? they had some help from HNIC for sure. 'showcasing' is an understatement. I think I saw every breath the kid took - 7 times over, through that broadcast. made "18 yr old" seem like second rate hype Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldnews said: they had some help from HNIC for sure. 'showcasing' is an understatement. I think I saw every breath the kid took - 7 times over, through that broadcast. made "18 yr old" seem like second rate hype Oh man no shat. He was on TSN homepage, front page all day too. Good grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 8 hours ago, oldnews said: Tallon was in a tough spot for sure. The team he'd built had been instant-rice 'rebuilt' with the promise of an analytical upgrade which....wasn't and upgrade. But what he adopted was a small market team that had now failed to make the playoffs - an owner that was likely stung by the sales-kick he bought - and Tallon was left to dump cap/contracts. Demers isn't that bad - but not surprisingly he didn't replicate his 'analytics' in Florida. Reilly Smith - more cap that needed to be dumped - but not a bad player, and certainly a very good gamble for LV to take at a low cost. In any event I didn't begin a conversation of 'expectations' of a Gudbranson return - I indicated that I think people are over-rating the value of a player like Liljegren - as people tend to - the sky is always the limit with recent draftees.....particularly Leaf prospects, who are inevitably core pieces in multiple future Stanley Cupz. My 'expectation' - rather my preference - is that they re-sign Gudbranson. For me, that's the best 'return.' If they were to deal him to a team like Toronto or Florida, I would want an NHL asset involved -and ideally, a RHD. So, in the case of Florida, I'd want Petrovic as a secondary piece in a deal. Petrovic is struggling this year - his value has dipped - he may or may not remain an NHL asset or potential top 4 - but he brings some of what we'd be losing in Gudbranson. He's a big, physical RHD - young - with a mean streak, relatively mobile and can fill some of the void that we'd lose in Gudbranson. The advantage of taking a chance on Petrovic - he also would not represent the bulk of value in a deal imo, while more proven than a prospect. He'd be a serviceable RHD on our roster, one that Green might be able to get a whole lot out of, but there would also need to be an accompanying principle piece necessary. Toronto doesn't really have a comparable to offer. They have some B prospect LHD and a Swedish Pouliot that they overhype to no end. Connor Carrick is probably not an option I'd entertain - there's a reason they need to upgrade on their right side - and Carrick may have some grit, but he's another undersized D that we don't really need. Florida has Ekblad, Matheson, Yandle....McCoshen....Pysyk....Petrovic. I think they are more able to offer a suitable roster piece (could even be more of a hockey trade for one of their other young D) - and I think their prospect pool is also better and deeper than Toronto's. Tippett, Heponiemi, Borgstrom, Mascherin - the Leafs simply don't have that quality of prospects outside their NHL roster. I'm not going to go into specific proposals - I think that a 1st equivalent would be a necessary add to Petrovic, so depending on which combination of pick or pick and prospect imo the value would have to be in the range of their 2018 1st. In a case like this we recover a serviceable RHD, one that brings some of what our roster lacks - and we could take our chances on the futures. Does Toronto have a Petrovic to add to a deal? No, not really. Would Gudbranson even want to go back to Florida? I have no idea. It's a different team really, with a different coaching staff, and a bunch of water under the bridge.... Would he want to stay here? I hope so. Would he want to go to Toronto? If he were dealt there, I'd hope it would just be until July 1st - I'd love to see them waste futures again as they did with Boyle with Erik moving on to wherever he wants to be in free agency. The flaw in what you suggest to get from Florida is that they are in a similar situation as us. They do not even know if they will be making a push, so giving up futures for a player they could hope will go to UFA is not a smart move. They will definitely not offer a 1st that could potentially become a lottery pick (imagine if they they and "won" one of the top 3 picks). Petrovic would be expendable for them if they are looking to bring in Gudbranson, however if he is the secondary piece, I don't see much of a primary piece coming back, if any at all. Again, giving up any top prospect for a UFA (probably would re-sign with Florida) is a gamble for a team that will need to go on a hot run to get into just a wild card spot. Also unlikely Gudbranson will be the difference maker for that push for them to give up a lot for. If we do not make a deal with anyone and he doesn't re-sign, perhaps Florida will give us a late pick for his rights. Selling Gudbranson means we are pretty much done for the season and means he has no intention of returning, so I personally wouldn't care too much for an average NHL dman in return to boost the value of the trade back. We are having plenty of injuries on defense, but we are also being forced to sit out Hutton some nights and Biega several nights. We could bring up Weircioch or Holm as well. If we get Liljegren, he would slot right into the AHL, so it just pushes up the current dmen up a spot and we don't need another warm body on the blue line. If we can squeeze out another pick from Toronto, then great, but I would be estatic to nab a recent first rounder, who should be a top 4 dman (Pouliot isn't too bad). Plus that would allowed other dmen like Hutton or whoever to become expendable and try to bring in more return. I'm not wanting Liljegren because I'm buying the hype from Toronto, but I believe he will become a serviceable NHL dman and we get some value for a pending UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, zduck14 said: For what it's worth, which I realize isn't much, Don Cherry figures Gudbranson would cost the leafs a Brown or Marner I will take Marner thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, theo5789 said: The flaw in what you suggest to get from Florida is that they are in a similar situation as us. If you say so. Honestly don't have much more time for this. Tallon wants to reacquire Gudbranson - and I can imagine that ownership wouldn't mind some playoff revenue - but who knows - if you figure you know what they would or wouldn't give up....that's great. I don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 minute ago, oldnews said: If you say so. Honestly don't have much more time for this. Tallon wants to reacquire Gudbranson - and I can imagine that ownership wouldn't mind some playoff revenue - but who knows - if you figure you know what they would or wouldn't give up....that's great. I don't agree. If I say so? They are 7 points out of a wild card spot and we are 9 points out. They wanted Gudbranson in the off season, I doubt they want him now (at least not for the suggested cost you have made). I'm just using logic, but you don't have to agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 21 minutes ago, theo5789 said: If I say so? They are 7 points out of a wild card spot and we are 9 points out. They wanted Gudbranson in the off season, I doubt they want him now (at least not for the suggested cost you have made). I'm just using logic, but you don't have to agree with that. again, if you say so. 7 pts with a game in hand and half the season to go - no, that's not time to fold up your tent. you can call that 'logic' if you want - I call it a quitter mentality that doesn't cut it at the professional level. they're not in the 'same position' as the Canucks - the Canucks don't have a realistic roster intact to make a push. You doubt they want him now - again, I don't pretend to know what Tallon does or doesn't want. Apparently you have an updated line on Tallon's and Florida's mindset. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VIC_CITY Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 38 minutes ago, theo5789 said: If I say so? They are 7 points out of a wild card spot and we are 9 points out. They wanted Gudbranson in the off season, I doubt they want him now (at least not for the suggested cost you have made). I'm just using logic, but you don't have to agree with that. On the surface, logic would suggest that Florida wouldn't likely be a dance partner for a Gudbranson trade, due to the simple fact that teams that low in the standings hardly ever trade for pending UFAs, but they're under a fair amount of pressure to make the playoffs this year, after a disappointing 16-17 season. I'm sure Florida would like a Petrovic + deal but I really have no interest in him myself. IMO, any trade for Gudbranson has to involve youth coming back. Not someone that's a whopping 2 months younger than Gudbranson. Interestingly enough, as of 11 minutes ago, it's Gudbranson's birthday! He's now 26 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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