Seeing the bright side, and why you should too...

[oldnews]

If there is a bright side it is that this is occurring in transition years.

 

But we also saw it at very untimely circumstances in 2011.

 

If they had to pick times, these past few years would be the time, but it absolutely sucks regardless - hurts players development, hurts the franchise fiscally, and can also reduce/limit the ability to trade assets, get decent value for them, and have players in reasonable roles with reasonable conditions to be successful.

[TheGuardian_]

3 minutes ago, oldnews said:

If there is a bright side it is that this is occurring in transition years.

 

But we also saw it at very untimely circumstances in 2011.

 

If they had to pick times, these past few years would be the time, but it absolutely sucks regardless - hurts players development, hurts the franchise fiscally, and can also reduce/limit the ability to trade assets, get decent value for them, and have players in reasonable roles with reasonable conditions to be successful.

What might be scary is, combined with Benning being on his last year, most of these injured will be coming back just before the TDL and there will probably be a surge in the standings, will Benning make trades (picks/prospects) to save his job? To make a playoff push?

 

The Canuck luck is that he will trade the 1rst for Kane or someone else and the Nucks win the lottery.

[Boudrias]

4 hours ago, smithers joe said:

to tank, means to lose on purpose. i wouldn't wouldn't follow a team that set themselves up to lose on purpose. if the team is trying to win but lose, then high draft picks are a reward. constant losing does things to the players. people talk about hope. the players need to have hope too. they need to feel that in every game, they have a chance to win. they need confidence that, they can win. you never want losing to be your mindset. 

Joe, Do you consider it 'tanking' if Benning does not trade a draft pick or trades a player like Hutton to replace Boeser? I doubt you do. I think the 'tanking' term has been simplified to the a point. I have been called a 'tanker' because I do not want the Canucks to waiver on a rebuild. It is a bit clearer today than it was even 2 years ago.

 

I believe teams operate on timelines. To that purpose they must recognize the optimum compete period of their rosters and deal vets to maximize the return for a new rebuild. Fans could easily label that as tanking. I certainly do not. Your point about team culture is well taken. Confidence is a big issue with many players. Having the core group of vets to transition a young roster is critical. IMO Benning has been doing a decent job through the past 3 years. As a fan for the next 2 - 3 years the imperative is Acquistion- Development- Evaluation. That takes a management group that has steely resolve and one that is prepared to make decisions that are not always popular with fans. 

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

What might be scary is, combined with Benning being on his last year, most of these injured will be coming back just before the TDL and there will probably be a surge in the standings, will Benning make trades (picks/prospects) to save his job? To make a playoff push?

 

The Canuck luck is that he will trade the 1rst for Kane or someone else and the Nucks win the lottery.

You'd just as well dwell on whether an earthquake will wash Vancouver into the Pacific.

[TheGuardian_]

5 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You'd just as well dwell on whether an earthquake will wash Vancouver into the Pacific.

Okay I'll bite on the baiting.

 

You have a very skewed humorous streak, death and destruction as a comparison to what I posted? Really?

[DSVII]

5 hours ago, smithers joe said:

to tank, means to lose on purpose. i wouldn't wouldn't follow a team that set themselves up to lose on purpose. if the team is trying to win but lose, then high draft picks are a reward. constant losing does things to the players. people talk about hope. the players need to have hope too. they need to feel that in every game, they have a chance to win. they need confidence that, they can win. you never want losing to be your mindset. 

As someone who wants the high draft picks for this team, the players should definitely be trying to win each and every game. That is the player and coach's perogative and that should never change.

 

Unless you are referring to the most ardent scorched earth tankers, i think almost all people who advocate a 'tanking' strategy doesn't want the team to just give up every night. 

 

 

 

[smithers joe]

4 minutes ago, DSVII said:

As someone who wants the high draft picks for this team, the players should definitely be trying to win each and every game. That is the player and coach's perogative and that should never change.

 

Unless you are referring to the most ardent scorched earth tankers, i think almost all people who advocate a 'tanking' strategy doesn't want the team to just give up every night. 

i hope not. 

 

 

 

[dura_mater]

5 hours ago, DefCon1 said:

We could've still had the tank and Boeser winning the Calder. Also even if we end up last, somehow we will pick 4th overall. So tanking won't guarantee anything like a 1st overall pick.

Firstly, we can't finish last; there's no way we're finishing below Arizona.  And no one is saying if we get last we're guaranteed the first overall.  Everyone knows how the lottery works by now.  

Finishing lower does however give us a better shot at a better player.

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

 

You have a very skewed humorous streak, death and destruction as a comparison to what I posted? Really?

trade the team's 1st in a year they're transitioning and falling in the standings (something Benning has never done).

 

and that pick wins the lottery subsequently

 

no, you're not dramatic at all

[dura_mater]

3 hours ago, TheGuardian_ said:

What might be scary is, combined with Benning being on his last year, most of these injured will be coming back just before the TDL and there will probably be a surge in the standings, will Benning make trades (picks/prospects) to save his job? To make a playoff push?

 

The Canuck luck is that he will trade the 1rst for Kane or someone else and the Nucks win the lottery.

Why would Benning need to save his job?  He's given us the best prospect pool we've had in over 15 years.  When has Benning ever traded our first?  Seriously, get over yourself.

[Nuxfanabroad]

I had also been using the 'tank' word loosely. For example, the Stealth Tank thread..in that, I felt the team would still try hard, yet due to circumstances(injuries; trade vets for futures) fall back, before later surging fwd.

 

Especially in this cap era, a team's trajectory has to be mapped out, somewhat.

[Boudrias]

6 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

I had also been using the 'tank' word loosely. For example, the Stealth Tank thread..in that, I felt the team would still try hard, yet due to circumstances(injuries; trade vets for futures) fall back, before later surging fwd.

 

Especially in this cap era, a team's trajectory has to be mapped out, somewhat.

The assumption many make about 'tanking' is that management deliberately creates circumstances that yield the desired rate of losing. The unfortunate reality is more along the lines that the play usually dictates the standings. To 'tank' suggests that the roster is actually better than it really is. I would actually suggest that the Canuck roster has been playing above their talent level. 

[Nucker 67]

I have no question that the Sedins will be re-signed after this season. They are #2 and #3 in Canucks scoring right now, and are having a bounce back year. Seems there's plenty left in the tank.

 

Goldobin is a ways from being a very good player. Whenever I see him get the puck, it's almost like I can see him tense up and grip his stick a little tighter. Then most times he panics and just tries to get rid of the puck. 

 

Gaunce has improved, even though he's not scoring. I like him to stick with the club, as he's big and plays a good D game. The goals will come, he's been close several times.

 

Burmistrov won't be with the team after this year. He just hasn't done enough, and at 26, this is most likely his ceiling.

 

Next year I see Juolevi, Pettersson, Dahlen and Gaudette start in Utica and be called up occasionally to get a taste, unless they impress like Boeser.

[TheGuardian_]

48 minutes ago, dura_mater said:

Why would Benning need to save his job?  He's given us the best prospect pool we've had in over 15 years.  When has Benning ever traded our first?  Seriously, get over yourself.

Then why didn't they extend him like most teams do? Why leave him as a "lame duck" GM all year? There has never been a prospect not playing in the NHL that has ever won a cup or even scored a goal. If the prospects are the gold then why aren't there daily updates from the team on how good the prospect farm is doing?

 

I was saying if he is trying to save his job AND/OR trying to make the playoffs he would need to trade for an impact player 1rst line player and you can't do that by trading 2nd rounders or many of the AHL players on his team.

54 minutes ago, oldnews said:

trade the team's 1st in a year they're transitioning and falling in the standings (something Benning has never done).

 

and that pick wins the lottery subsequently

 

no, you're not dramatic at all

I ask, what transitioning? The Sedins are getting less icetime? Is that transitioning? They have ONE rookie playing. Transitioning from what, to what? The team is older than before. Most of the players they have now are signed for next year and this team doesn't look even remotely ready to play without the Sedins.

 

The comment about trading the 1rst pick was essentially meant in irony. To get an impact player, a first line guy, other than trading away Boeser or Horvat, a 1rst rounder may be required.

 

The irony would be that they did do a trade for a really good player and then win the lottery. The first ever Canuck 1rst overall pick and it goes to a different team, that would be ironic.

[Goat James]

8 hours ago, D-Money said:

9 times out of 10, this is the way to go.

 

However, this year, we absolutely HAVE to take a D-man in the 1st round. Heck, I'd support taking a D man with almost every pick this year.

 

For the first time in years, we have prospect forwards with star potential (Boeser & Pettersson), young players on the team who are already legitimate top-6 forwards (Horvat & Baertschi), and a number of other prospects with top-6 potential (Gaudette, Dahlen, Goldobin, etc.). And Demko-Dipietro is a solid foundation in goal.

 

But Juolevi is the ONLY D prospect we have with even a hint of top-pairing potential...in fact, he's the only one with even legitimate top-4 potential. We desperately need more.

 

If only there was a D prospect with top 6 upside in this upcoming draft, if only there was...

[oldnews]

15 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

I ask, what transitioning?

Sorry, I find the question too boring.  Squabble about semantics with someone who cares.

And I imagine the rest is TG drama, so I'm out.

[TheGuardian_]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

Sorry, I find the question too boring.  Squabble about semantics with someone who cares.

Semantics or facts?

The Team is older.

The team has no more rookies playing than 4 years ago and only two draft picks of 28 possibilities.

The team finished 26th 5 years ago and look to be the same now.

The "core" of the team remains basically the same, the Sedins, Tanev, Edler with Eriksson and Sutter added.

Four years ago all the hype was about prospects, and now, prospects still.

The team is scoring fewer goals than previous years each year. (scoring is up about 10% league wide his year)

The team is now allowing more goals than previous years.

The team is capped out and in the bottom 1/3 of the league, for going on four years.

The team has 3 drafted players playing for other teams and doing great, 2 defence men and a scoring center. Forsling is a top 4 PP specialist with Chicago, Tryamkin is the near the best defence man in his league and McCann, while not as successful, is playing and scoring in the NHL.

The team has had to draft replacements for those players, wasted picks that are not playing on this team delaying further improvement.

 

 

I happen to care if the team can win, if the team is improving and not just changing one player for another without showing some improvement. I care that this team will have to do a scorched earth rebuild starting with the Sedin's retirement and buying out Eriksson and then it will really be in for some pain and more time Years) needed before a marked improvement. 

I care that for the last four years the management group has done nothing in the trade department to improve the team and doesn't appear motivated to change.

I care that Linden stated that it wouldn't be fair to the Sedins to do a rebuild, that the Sedins would play here as long as they wanted to keep playing, that they (management) knew what the team needed from day one but won't do it because of the Sedins, that he would call it a rebuild IF THAT SATISFIED the fans but they were not going to do anything different than they already were doing.

 

Any UFA signing here isn't doing it because the team is on the verge of winning a cup, they are doing it for the money and diminished expectations of the market. 

 

You are not meaning semantics or facts, but perception, a magic trick. If the mob believes the magician, then it is magic and not slight of hand.

 

[oldnews]

6 minutes ago, TheGuardian_ said:

Semantics

Sorry, you're really wasting your time if you're expecting me to read that, let alone waste the time to respond.

 

[TheGuardian_]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Sorry, you're really wasting your time if you're expecting me to read that, let alone waste the time to respond.

 

You did though

[MattJVD]

6 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

My concern is this:  what impact will these injuries have on the long term future of these players?  How will it weaken them and what if their recovery doesn't get them back to where they were?  I'm sure they will, but I'm worried.

 

Brock and Bo, in particular.  It's been a LONG time since we've had the excitement that these two can generate and I, for one, was LOVING it.  Even if we weren't going to win the cup, hockey was SUPER FUN to watch with them in the line up.  It's now momentarily lost its lustre for me.  I will trudge along for the ride and am in for the long haul, but this really is awful to me.  It's so not me to abandon hope, so it's a tough pill to swallow.  I like a team that wins, even if they don't "win it all".  I don't just watch for the outcome and we were seeing some (intermittent) fun hockey.  It was all over the map, but there was a glimmer of hope each game.

 

I know there's a silver lining in this....but, with our luck and the NHL odds, that usually turns to dust.

 

The future includes these guys for me, so it's hard for me to go on in a business as usual way when they are suffering and have to heal.  That part is horrible and, at least in the moment, I'm stuck there.  They were generating some great confidence and momentum that's now come to a grinding halt.   And their return will involve a process of getting back up to speed.

 

Hate to rain on the parade and I do appreciate the half full glass but, at the moment, it's hard for me to see any good in this.

 

Plus, I envision our line up looking something like this in the New Year (tongue in cheek, love my team, just feeling a little Eeyore today):

 

"LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, INTRODUCING YOUR VANCOUVER CANUCKS"....

 

MAGICAL SCORING ELF – GAGNER - DEB FROM SECTION 307 who won this opportunity guessing where a donut was

SEDIN – SEDIN - ERIKSSON this line will play 58 minutes/game

VANEK wearing a go pro - GRANNY (we’re recruiting Grannies now, they're TOUGH AS NAILS – BURMI (only allowed in the offensive zone)  

GAUNCE who will never ever score again.  EVER – DOWD (related to Jim?) - VIRTANEN wearing a goal net

 

ON RESERVE:  VERN the security guard from the zamboni entrance – JOE season ticket holder since 1970 – EDNA Joe’s wife

UBER DRIVER – MICKEY who got lost on his way to the casino – APRICOT earned a spot

 

 

EDLER (when he awakens from his nap) – POULIOT

TANEV (I injured him typing this) – HUTTON (does he still play for us?)

MDZ –STECHER (these two will take on guys 3 times their size age)

 

Marky - Nilsson (both of them, together at the same time…”you cover the right side, I’ve got the left”

 

 

I appreciate the optimism, but am having a hard time even spelling it today....

Granted I have not seen their MRI/CT scans, I don't think the injuries to Bo or Brock will affect them long-term. You're right, they may take a few games to get used to game speed again upon returning, but there injuries should heel 100%. 

 

With the Injuries to Sutter and Gudbranson, we aren't getting as many detains and it's really hard to say.