2018-19 Utica Comets Thread

[bigbadcanucks]

On 7/27/2018 at 9:11 AM, Boudrias said:

The only change that would make sense in the Comets being moved to the West Coast is whether Seattle gets a team and where their AHL team would be located. Even that is a stretch IMHO. I am in the camp of leaving the team in Utica. I am not on top of the finances of doing so other than the natural cost saving on travel. The idea that shorter travel time leaves more practice and gym time should never be taken for granted. 

 

Another aspect about Utica is that it is a two way window for the Canucks to use. I would suggest that prior to Comet ownership the Canucks lost a perspective on the Eastern USA and more importantly the NCAA. Vice versa the awareness of the Canucks had to improve with their presence. Canucks have a solid representation of collegians in their prospect pool and again that will not go unnoticed. At the pro level Comet staff see a solid segment of the AHL offerings with should filter up to the Canuck scouting staff. 

 

I see no serious advantage to relocating the Comets out west.   

I've always been a proponent of the Canucks leaving their farm team in Utica for reasons that have been cited many times already (i.e., less travel time, more practice and work out time, sleeping in their homes, etc.).

 

But, there's no real evidence to state that those attributes for keeping the farm team in Utica has actually helped the Canucks.  The only notable players to have gone through a development period in Utica are Virtanen, Gaunce, Markstrom, and Archibald. 

 

I suppose it could be argued that there's been a lack of movement of players from Utica to the Canucks because of lack of talent vs. lack of resources to develop, but the more I think about it, the less I'm inclined to think that it really doesn't matter where the farm is, other than maintaining a loyalty to the ownership/management group led by Esche and to the great fans of Mohawk Valley.  And we've seen that Frankie is only loyal to his wine collection.

 

For what it's worth, I hope the Canucks keep the farm team in Utica...sounds like Esche, Johnson, Conacher, et. al. are running the AHL franchise like an NHL franchise, which is reminiscent of the way Chipman and Heisinger ran the Moose when the Canucks had the farm team in the 'peg.  And if I remember correctly, these were the guys who helped develop Kesler, Bieksa, Burrows, Schneider, Raymond, Edler, etc.

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, bigbadcanucks said:

I've always been a proponent of the Canucks leaving their farm team in Utica for reasons that have been cited many times already (i.e., less travel time, more practice and work out time, sleeping in their homes, etc.).

 

But, there's no real evidence to state that those attributes for keeping the farm team in Utica has actually helped the Canucks.  The only notable players to have gone through a development period in Utica are Virtanen, Gaunce, Markstrom, and Archibald. 

 

I suppose it could be argued that there's been a lack of movement of players from Utica to the Canucks because of lack of talent vs. lack of resources to develop, but the more I think about it, the less I'm inclined to think that it really doesn't matter where the farm is, other than maintaining a loyalty to the ownership/management group led by Esche and to the great fans of Mohawk Valley.  And we've seen that Frankie is only loyal to his wine collection.

 

For what it's worth, I hope the Canucks keep the farm team in Utica...sounds like Esche, Johnson, Conacher, et. al. are running the AHL franchise like an NHL franchise, which is reminiscent of the way Chipman and Heisinger ran the Moose when the Canucks had the farm team in the 'peg.  And if I remember correctly, these were the guys who helped develop Kesler, Bieksa, Burrows, Schneider, Raymond, Edler, etc.

Our farm team is for sure staying in Utica.  That’s a great market for our guys to play in.  Plus, it’s likely a lot cheaper to live there, than anywhere around Vancouver.  I see us building a foundation much like the one you mentioned that came through the Moose.  We have plenty of young talent coming along now.  

[UticaHockey]

15 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Our farm team is for sure staying in Utica.  That’s a great market for our guys to play in.  Plus, it’s likely a lot cheaper to live there, than anywhere around Vancouver.  I see us building a foundation much like the one you mentioned that came through the Moose.  We have plenty of young talent coming along now.  

One way or another I just hope they make the decision sooner rather than later. This is the final year of the six year agreement between the Canucks and the Comets and the uncertainty if this is the last year of AHL hockey in Utica will become more of a distraction as time goes on.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

One way or another I just hope they make the decision sooner rather than later. This is the final year of the six year agreement between the Canucks and the Comets and the uncertainty if this is the last year of AHL hockey in Utica will become more of a distraction as time goes on.

It would be a BIG mistake to move out of Utica.  Selfishly, I would like our farm team in Vancouver, and playing out of the old Pacific Colosseum.  That’s not at all what’s best for our team though.  Staying in Utica is what’s best.

[alfstonker]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

It would be a BIG mistake to move out of Utica.  Selfishly, I would like our farm team in Vancouver, and playing out of the old Pacific Colosseum.  That’s not at all what’s best for our team though.  Staying in Utica is what’s best.

If there was a any intention to move from Utica I think we should start a petition on their behalf.

[Borvat]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

It would be a BIG mistake to move out of Utica.  Selfishly, I would like our farm team in Vancouver, and playing out of the old Pacific Colosseum.  That’s not at all what’s best for our team though.  Staying in Utica is what’s best.

The arena in Abbotsford is still looking for an anchor tenant - AHL team since the Flames affiliate the Heat moved on.  The AHL has created a Pacific Division and Abbotsford would work well from that perspective.  Gold stars are the locations of the Pacific Division.  I also think a team in Washington State or Oregon will be in the plans.

 

[Boudrias]

33 minutes ago, Borvat said:

The arena in Abbotsford is still looking for an anchor tenant - AHL team since the Flames affiliate the Heat moved on.  The AHL has created a Pacific Division and Abbotsford would work well from that perspective.  Gold stars are the locations of the Pacific Division.  I also think a team in Washington State or Oregon will be in the plans.

 

A sit sits the Comets would be flying to virtually every away game versus Utica where they can bus to half a dozen teams within 3 hours. Not sure about the time maybe UticaHockey could clarify. Utica is ideal. Change would only make sense with 2 or 3 AHL teams in the Pacific Northwest and that isn't happening. 

[Borvat]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

A sit sits the Comets would be flying to virtually every away game versus Utica where they can bus to half a dozen teams within 3 hours. Not sure about the time maybe UticaHockey could clarify. Utica is ideal. Change would only make sense with 2 or 3 AHL teams in the Pacific Northwest and that isn't happening. 

When the Heat originally left Abbotsford (end of 2014 season) the Acqulinis were interested in moving the AHL team to Abbotsford.  They held meetings with Abbotsford city staff (my friend was involved in the meetings at the time he was a city employee) regarding locating the Comets in Abbotsford. 

 

The play was actually for the real estate (the arena and some surrounding property the City owns)  The City of Abbotsford was not interested in selling so the Acquilinis re-committed to Utica.  In 2015 the AHL formed the Pacific Division. 

 

If you look at the map there are several teams that need to travel to a majority of games by air.  Abbotsford International Airport to California is approx 2 - 2.5 hours.  You are likely correct but the Acquilini's are more about money and real estate than they are about an AHL farm teams location especially if it can benefit them financially.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the team was moved by current ownership especially for financial reasons or opportunities. 

Edited August 18, 2018 by Borvat

[TGT68]

19 minutes ago, Borvat said:

When the Heat originally left Abbotsford (end of 2014 season) the Acqulinis were interested in moving the AHL team to Abbotsford.  They held meetings with Abbotsford city staff (my friend was involved in the meetings at the time he was a city employee) regarding locating the Comets in Abbotsford. 

 

The play was actually for the real estate (the arena and some surrounding property the City owns)  The City of Abbotsford was not interested in selling so the Acquilinis re-committed to Utica.  In 2015 the AHL formed the Pacific Division. 

 

If you look at the map there are several teams that need to travel to a majority of games by air.  Abbotsford International Airport to California is approx 2 - 2.5 hours.  You are likely correct but the Acquilini's are more about money and real estate than they are about an AHL farm teams location especially if it can benefit them financially.

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the team was moved by current ownership especially for financial reasons or opportunities. 

My guess is it is most likely for the team to move once Seattle sets up their AHL franchise.  Then two Northwest teams can start in Abbotsford and Victoria and thus reduce travel between each other and both their parent clubs.   

[Borvat]

1 minute ago, TGT68 said:

My guess is it is most likely for the team to move once Seattle sets up their AHL franchise.  Then two Northwest teams can start in Abbotsford and Victoria and thus reduce travel between each other and both their parent clubs.   

Would make sense.  The only wild card may be if/when  the Acquilini's could make a deal to their liking with the city of Abbotsford.  The arena needs a legit anchor tenant. 

[TGT68]

26 minutes ago, Borvat said:

Would make sense.  The only wild card may be if/when  the Acquilini's could make a deal to their liking with the city of Abbotsford.  The arena needs a legit anchor tenant. 

If that was the only goal I would guess they would have already acquired a WHL team (before the Giants moved to Langley).  They seem to be holding out for something more which implies they know something of someone's plans (maybe the Aquilini's). 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, TGT68 said:

My guess is it is most likely for the team to move once Seattle sets up their AHL franchise.  Then two Northwest teams can start in Abbotsford and Victoria and thus reduce travel between each other and both their parent clubs.   

My take is solely from a hockey perspective. That is why I would stay with Utica. If the Acquilinis can leverage a solid business reason then so be it. They are in business to make money. If Seattle were to locate an AHL team in the Pacific Northwest it might be attractive. As you suggest Abbotsford or Portland and Victoria. Don't want to step on the WHL either. Stay in Utica. 

[alfstonker]

Even if Seattle did have an AHL team in the West I would still question whether we would be right to uplift our team from Utica.

 

I remember much of the reason for saying it was a good move was that we would have players who we could call on from Utica when we were caught short in the East. Surely that is still relevant. 

 

My main point though is what would be best for our young players. 

 

Utica has built up a relationship and a strong bond with our players despite there being a deficit of young stars on the team. That will start to change now and I want these boys who are coming in to play in front of a fanatical support when on home ice. That is what Utica provides and until that shows signs  of falling away I really don't see how it benefits our prospects to move them to a place like Abbotsford. 

 

By the end of next season we WILL have a surplus of good young players probably for the first time since the Moose days. What better than to have them backed by a fan base who are not only fanatical in their love for the game but have shown patience and refused to turn on the team or the management when things were not going well and the team was still not where we wanted to be. 

That has to be worth a lot when you are developing young boys into players ready to take the next step. 

 

Don't get me wrong if Utica had been a "what have you done for me lately" type of venue I would have no trouble in saying it's not working let's bring the team "home" 

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, alfstonker said:

Even if Seattle did have an AHL team in the West I would still question whether we would be right to uplift our team from Utica.

 

I remember much of the reason for saying it was a good move was that we would have players who we could call on from Utica when we were caught short in the East. Surely that is still relevant. 

 

My main point though is what would be best for our young players. 

 

Utica has built up a relationship and a strong bond with our players despite there being a deficit of young stars on the team. That will start to change now and I want these boys who are coming in to play in front of a fanatical support when on home ice. That is what Utica provides and until that shows signs  of falling away I really don't see how it benefits our prospects to move them to a place like Abbotsford. 

 

By the end of next season we WILL have a surplus of good young players probably for the first time since the Moose days. What better than to have them backed by a fan base who are not only fanatical in their love for the game but have shown patience and refused to turn on the team or the management when things were not going well and the team was still not where we wanted to be. 

That has to be worth a lot when you are developing young boys into players ready to take the next step. 

 

Don't get me wrong if Utica had been a "what have you done for me lately" type of venue I would have no trouble in saying it's not working let's bring the team "home" 

So many good points. Utica has been behind this team from the get go. One could question the AHL support in Abbotsford if the team struggled as the time line sends more of the prospects to the NHL. 

[Kosmo Kramer]

I wonder how much weight Aquilini puts into Utica being great for players development.

 

As others said they are businessmen and if they can scoop up the land in abbotsford and have the team there in the name of selling tickets to Canuck fans who want to see their prospects play.

I'm concerned that players development won't be part of the equation. Which is too bad.

[Boudrias]

10 hours ago, Kosmo Kramer said:

I wonder how much weight Aquilini puts into Utica being great for players development.

 

As others said they are businessmen and if they can scoop up the land in abbotsford and have the team there in the name of selling tickets to Canuck fans who want to see their prospects play.

I'm concerned that players development won't be part of the equation. Which is too bad.

I think you are making assumptions of how big the potential fiscal gains would be with a AHL team in Abbottsford. As you suggest there might be a financial case but IMHO the long term health and success of the Canucks carries more financial impact to the Acquillini bottom line. That success would far overshadow anything happening in the Valley. The cost of operation in BC would outstrip that of Utica in a major way. Attendance in BC would not exceed that of Utica. Add to that how the move could undermind prospect development and the case for a move starts to look less appealing. I don't see it.  

[TGT68]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

I think you are making assumptions of how big the potential fiscal gains would be with a AHL team in Abbottsford. As you suggest there might be a financial case but IMHO the long term health and success of the Canucks carries more financial impact to the Acquillini bottom line. That success would far overshadow anything happening in the Valley. The cost of operation in BC would outstrip that of Utica in a major way. Attendance in BC would not exceed that of Utica. Add to that how the move could undermind prospect development and the case for a move starts to look less appealing. I don't see it.  

Just to address one point.  How would attendance not exceed that of Utica?  Utica attendance is about capacity with a 3860 capacity for hockey.  Abbotsford capacity is in the 7000 range.  The Heat averaged similar numbers to Utica when it was the hated flames prospects instead of the local Canucks prospects.  Do you not think the change of affiliation would make a change of attendance figures?  

 

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by TGT68

[TGT68]

An additional attendance note.  Victoria arena is also 7000 capacity.  Victoria averaged about 4000 with the ECHL salmon kings.  Went to about a 5000 average with the WHL Royals.  I would argue the Comets would draw in the 6000 range in Victoria.  But I honestly can't see them doing much worse in Abbotsford.  

[alfstonker]

3 hours ago, TGT68 said:

Just to address one point.  How would attendance not exceed that of Utica?  Utica attendance is about capacity with a 3860 capacity for hockey.  Abbotsford capacity is in the 7000 range.  The Heat averaged similar numbers to Utica when it was the hated flames prospects instead of the local Canucks prospects.  Do you not think the change of affiliation would make a change of attendance figures?  

 

 

I think there is one thing to remember here. 

We are talking about two different audience types. One is a knowledgeable blue collar audience giving fanatical support for THEIR team. I say that because the people of Utica probably don't give a hoot for the Canucks, Utica Comets are all that matters and is everything to these guys.

The other is more than likely similar to the Canucks audience - "what have you done for me lately?"

 

And it's not just about attendances, it is about atmosphere.  What is the atmosphere like with 3,500 in a 7,000 capacity arena?

I'm not saying Abbotsford couldn't support the Comets but they have not got much of a record for filling their building night after night - unlike Utica. So is it worth taking the chance? I say no but of course we fans will have little say in it.

 

"Fans 4

In a building with a listed capacity of 3,860, Utica has averaged over that figure in each of the past four seasons. Utica proudly touts their sellout streak, which reached 100 games during the 2017-18 season. The team has a season ticket membership of 3,300 fans, which leaves less than 500 tickets available for each game. These tickets are snapped up quickly, forcing fans to search the secondary market for available seats, a rarity in the minor leagues.

Comet fans do more than just fill the seats, as they provide the team with a significant home-ice advantage. Chants of “UTICA-UTICA-UTICA” reverberate through the Aud every night. The fans here are fully aware of the shifting landscape of the AHL, and are doing their best to prove they are worthy of inclusion in this exclusive club."

 

"Atmosphere 5

The Aud is packed to the rafters on most nights, and the small barn echoes with chants of “UTICA! UTICA! UTICA!” throughout the game. Capacity crowds create a great deal of noise and a significant home ice advantage night in and night out. Most of the fans come dressed in the Comets’ blue and green colors, and some traditions from the Pacific Northwest have found their way to the Mohawk Valley. A pair of fans mimic the Canucks’ famed green men, and the team’s dance squad, the Comettes, perform and lead cheers during play stoppages. Just be careful when traversing the inner walkway around the dance team. Many a fan has lost their beverage or nachos after bumping into one of these lovely ladies during their routines.

If you want to experience a Comets game like a season ticket holder, the team has several unique options to check out. The Horton Room, located behind section 218, is named for former Utica player and coach Bill Horton. This lounge boasts a line-up of top shelf liquors and Labatt Blue beer, and is decorated with Utica hockey memorabilia.

Another option is Kilfoil’s Irish Pub. Fans looking for a pint of Guinness can watch the action in an authentically decorated Irish pub while enjoying a cold one during the game.

Members looking for another new spot from which to take in the action can head to Zetlin’s Lounge. Featuring 17 foot floor to ceiling windows and a 22-foot bar, Zetlin’s lounge offers excellent views of the action while enjoying cold beverages."

[TGT68]

1 hour ago, alfstonker said:

I think there is one thing to remember here. 

We are talking about two different audience types. One is a knowledgeable blue collar audience giving fanatical support for THEIR team. I say that because the people of Utica probably don't give a hoot for the Canucks, Utica Comets are all that matters and is everything to these guys.

The other is more than likely similar to the Canucks audience - "what have you done for me lately?"

 

And it's not just about attendances, it is about atmosphere.  What is the atmosphere like with 3,500 in a 7,000 capacity arena?

I'm not saying Abbotsford couldn't support the Comets but they have not got much of a record for filling their building night after night - unlike Utica. So is it worth taking the chance? I say no but of course we fans will have little say in it.

 

"Fans 4

In a building with a listed capacity of 3,860, Utica has averaged over that figure in each of the past four seasons. Utica proudly touts their sellout streak, which reached 100 games during the 2017-18 season. The team has a season ticket membership of 3,300 fans, which leaves less than 500 tickets available for each game. These tickets are snapped up quickly, forcing fans to search the secondary market for available seats, a rarity in the minor leagues.

Comet fans do more than just fill the seats, as they provide the team with a significant home-ice advantage. Chants of “UTICA-UTICA-UTICA” reverberate through the Aud every night. The fans here are fully aware of the shifting landscape of the AHL, and are doing their best to prove they are worthy of inclusion in this exclusive club."

 

"Atmosphere 5

The Aud is packed to the rafters on most nights, and the small barn echoes with chants of “UTICA! UTICA! UTICA!” throughout the game. Capacity crowds create a great deal of noise and a significant home ice advantage night in and night out. Most of the fans come dressed in the Comets’ blue and green colors, and some traditions from the Pacific Northwest have found their way to the Mohawk Valley. A pair of fans mimic the Canucks’ famed green men, and the team’s dance squad, the Comettes, perform and lead cheers during play stoppages. Just be careful when traversing the inner walkway around the dance team. Many a fan has lost their beverage or nachos after bumping into one of these lovely ladies during their routines.

If you want to experience a Comets game like a season ticket holder, the team has several unique options to check out. The Horton Room, located behind section 218, is named for former Utica player and coach Bill Horton. This lounge boasts a line-up of top shelf liquors and Labatt Blue beer, and is decorated with Utica hockey memorabilia.

Another option is Kilfoil’s Irish Pub. Fans looking for a pint of Guinness can watch the action in an authentically decorated Irish pub while enjoying a cold one during the game.

Members looking for another new spot from which to take in the action can head to Zetlin’s Lounge. Featuring 17 foot floor to ceiling windows and a 22-foot bar, Zetlin’s lounge offers excellent views of the action while enjoying cold beverages."

I think I hear you making a really good case for why the team owner would want to move the team to somewhere that they own the surrounding property and the arena.  Because what I hear in your atmosphere is "fan experience" which does little for the players but the team owner sees beer $$$ they don't get, food $$$$ they don't get etc etc   

Edited August 20, 2018 by TGT68