2018-19 Utica Comets Thread

[GoldenAlien]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

And Pyatt's an improvement over Archie at a much more important and needed position. And they added Gaudette there recently as well. 

Is Pyatt really a centre at this point?  His last two seasons, he took 49 faceoffs in 82 games and 51 faceoffs in 81 games. His FO% last season was a horrid 33%. He’s averaging 4 faceoffs a game this year, but he’s dropped from producing 20+ pts per season to 2 pts in 37 games.  Seems more like a Granlund than a Richardson.

 

The Canucks also listed him as LW online and in its press release. 

[Kootenay Gold]

One point to consider is that both Pyatt and McKenna are UFA's at the end of the season and are probably just stop gap fillers till then. Demko will most likely start as the backup to Markstrom in Vancouver next season and I am guessing that Bachmann will be the starter in Utica with Di Pietro as his backup. Bachman is only 31 whereas McKenna is 35 so logic dictates that McKenna is gone at seasons end.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, GoldenAlien said:

Is Pyatt really a centre at this point?  His last two seasons, he took 49 faceoffs in 82 games and 51 faceoffs in 81 games. His FO% last season was a horrid 33%. He’s averaging 4 faceoffs a game this year, but he’s dropped from producing 20+ pts per season to 2 pts in 37 games.  Seems more like a Granlund than a Richardson.

 

The Canucks also listed him as LW online and in its press release. 

At the AHL level, sure.

 

NHL, winger.

[GoldenAlien]

54 minutes ago, aGENT said:

At the AHL level, sure.

 

NHL, winger.

But Hamilton also listed Pyatt as LW on their 2009-2010 roster, the last time he played in the AHL. 

[aGENT]

37 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

But Hamilton also listed Pyatt as LW on their 2009-2010 roster, the last time he played in the AHL. 

Sure.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Whoa! Big surprise to see they toppled the Crunch tonite, 4-2. Gaunce with 2 pts.

 

This a wk after that 10-1 shellacking!

[GoldenAlien]

On 1/1/2019 at 5:25 PM, UticaHockey said:

There is no way to look at the Loui Erickson signing and not come to the conclusion that it was a bad signing.  But my point was for a team that is rebuilding Benning has not done a good job of acquiring additional draft picks both at the deadline and other times of the year.  And on top of this too many of his trades included both an asset and a pick going the other way.  Ex. Pouliot for Pedan and a 4th. Gudbranson for McCann plus a 2nd and a 4th. Etem for Jensen and a 6th.  Just too many times Benning has sweetened the deal by throwing in a draft pick.  Then let's not forget the rights to Phillip Larsen for a 5th.

 

A counter point would be these 4th and 5th round picks have a low percentage of turning into NHL players but a team rebuilding should be stockpiling them to increase their overall odds of finding some success stories.  Don't forget that Gaudette was a 5th round pick which I will more than happily give Benning credit for but he should be acquiring more of these picks instead of trading them away to find the next Gaudette.

These lower round draft picks have little impact on an NHL team's success, rebuild or not.  For example, take the Bolts.  Yzerman was hired as GM in May 2010, here's their record for 4th to 7th rounders from 2010 to 2016:

 

2010: #96 Geoffrey Schemitsch, #118 Jimmy Mullin, #156 Brendan O'Donnell, #186 Teigan Zahn.

2011: #148 Nikita Nesterov, #178 Adam Wilcox, #201 Matthew Peca, #208 Ondrej Palat. 

2012: #101 Cedric Paquette, #161 Jake Dotchin, #202 Nikita Gusev.

2013: #124 Kristers Gudlevskis, #154 Henri Ikonen, #184 Saku Salminen, #186 Joel Vermin.

2014: #119 Ben Thomas, #170 Cristiano DiGiacinto, #185 Cameron Darcy.

2015: #118 Jonne Tammela, #120 Mathieu Joseph, #150 Ryan Zuhlsdorf, #153 Kris Oldham, #180 Kris Oldham.

2016: #118 Ross Colton, #148 Christopher Paquette, #178 Oleg Sosunov, #206 Otto Somppi, #208 Ryan Lohin.

 

A whole bunch of nothings, a few grinders/ tweeners, and the only player of consequence is Palat.  That's one top 6 winger out of 28 picks.  Sure, guys like Paquette and Joseph play for the Lightning, but you can get these type of players (see Schaller, Roussel, Beagle) every year in free agency, without the years of development.  Stockpiling 5th rounders isn't the recipe for a successful rebuild.  You're much more likely to just end up with 3 extra Ryan Zuhlsdorfs. 

 

It's a little early to judge the 2017 and 2018 drafts, but for reference:

2017: #169 Nicklaus Perbix, #180 Cole Guttman, #200 Samuel Walker.

2018: #121 Alex Green, #152 Magnus Chrona, #183 Cole Koepke, #206 Radim Salda, #214 Ty Taylor.

 

Not seeing a whole lot of potential for future Conn Smythe winners here.  As an aside, the Bolts have also had plenty of misses.  Look at some of their higher picks:

 

2010: #6 Brett Connolly -- #7 was Jeff Skinner.

2012: #10 Slater Koekkoek -- #11 was Filip Forsberg.

2013: #3 Jonathan Drouin (turned into Mikhail Sergachev) -- #4 was Seth Jones.

2014: #19 Tony DeAngelo -- #20 was Nick Schmaltz.

 

Instead of stockpiling long shots, Benning tried to get prospects who have pro experience and are more likely to at least play in the NHL in some capacity.  The vast majority of late round picks never reach 100 games in the NHL; a guy like Pouliot has done a great deal more than most fourth rounders.  Benning could've gotten more picks for Burrows and Hansen, but he went for Dahlen and Goldobin instead.  If he insisted on say, a 6th rounder from CBJ instead of Motte, he probably would've gotten it.  But then the Canucks would have three guys playing in juniors right now, instead of two in the NHL and another on the farm.

Edited January 3, 2019 by GoldenAlien

[BlastPast]

11 minutes ago, GoldenAlien said:

These lower round draft picks have little impact on an NHL team's success, rebuild or not.  For example, take the Bolts.  Yzerman was hired as GM in May 2010, here's their record for 4th to 7th rounders from 2010 to 2016:

 

2010: #96 Geoffrey Schemitsch, #118 Jimmy Mullin, #156 Brendan O'Donnell, #186 Teigan Zahn.

2011: #148 Nikita Nesterov, #178 Adam Wilcox, #201 Matthew Peca, #208 Ondrej Palat. 

2012: #101 Cedric Paquette, #161 Jake Dotchin, #202 Nikita Gusev.

2013: #124 Kristers Gudlevskis, #154 Henri Ikonen, #184 Saku Salminen, #186 Joel Vermin.

2014: #119 Ben Thomas, #170 Cristiano DiGiacinto, #185 Cameron Darcy.

2015: #118 Jonne Tammela, #120 Mathieu Joseph, #150 Ryan Zuhlsdorf, #153 Kris Oldham, #180 Kris Oldham.

2016: #118 Ross Colton, #148 Christopher Paquette, #178 Oleg Sosunov, #206 Otto Somppi, #208 Ryan Lohin.

 

A whole bunch of nothings, a few grinders/ tweeners, and the only player of consequence is Palat.  That's one top 6 winger out of 28 picks.  Sure, guys like Paquette and Joseph play for the Lightning, but you can get these type of players (see Schaller, Roussel, Beagle) every year in free agency, without the years of development.  Stockpiling 5th rounders isn't the recipe for a successful rebuild.  You're much more likely to just end up with 3 extra Ryan Zuhlsdorfs. 

 

It's a little early to judge the 2017 and 2018 drafts, but for reference:

2017: #169 Nicklaus Perbix, #180 Cole Guttman, #200 Samuel Walker.

2018: #121 Alex Green, #152 Magnus Chrona, #183 Cole Koepke, #206 Radim Salda, #214 Ty Taylor.

 

Not seeing a whole lot of potential for future Conn Smythe winners here.  As an aside, the Bolts have also had plenty of misses.  Look at some of their higher picks:

 

2010: #6 Brett Connolly -- #7 was Jeff Skinner.

2012: #10 Slater Koekkoek -- #11 was Filip Forsberg.

2013: #3 Jonathan Drouin (turned into Mikhail Sergachev) -- #4 was Seth Jones.

2014: #19 Tony DeAngelo -- #20 was Nick Schmaltz.

 

Instead of stockpiling long shots, Benning tried to get prospects who have pro experience and are more likely to at least play in the NHL in some capacity.  The vast majority of late round picks never reach 100 games in the NHL; a guy like Pouliot has done a great deal more than most fourth rounders.  Benning could've gotten more picks for Burrows and Hansen, but he went for Dahlen and Goldobin instead.  If he insisted on say, a 6th rounder from CBJ instead of Motte, he probably would've gotten it.  But then the Canucks would have three guys playing in juniors right now, instead of two in the NHL and another on the farm.

Quoting this because it bears repeating. Some  people act like  few more late round picks would have been a huge benefit to the team.  There definitely could have been benefit but it would have taken some very good fortune for it to have been hugely material . Then there is of course the value of what goes the other way and of alternative assets that could have been acquired in lieu of the picks to be considered.

[UticaHockey]

The other reason for keeping the farm in Utica.  Beyond the favorable travel and practice schedules and fan support it allows young prospects to develop as players and mature as young adults away from the microscope of the Vancouver media.

 

 

[vannuck59]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 4:32 PM, Drop Em said:

I'll assume that your math is correct in regards to how many draft picks they're down. But even if it's only one pick that they're down, you'd still think that because scouting is Benning's specialty and he's proven that he's more than capable of finding good players in the draft, that he'd give himself every opportunity to increase his picks and assets and not decrease them. I will also say that I don't think that Benning did himself any favors by wasting a year or two trying to figure out if they should try and retool or rebuild. The AWFUL Eriksson signing is proof of that.

Yah while the Sedins were still here he had no choice but try to retool ownership gave him no choice.

[spook007]

6 hours ago, GoldenAlien said:

These lower round draft picks have little impact on an NHL team's success, rebuild or not.  For example, take the Bolts.  Yzerman was hired as GM in May 2010, here's their record for 4th to 7th rounders from 2010 to 2016:

 

2010: #96 Geoffrey Schemitsch, #118 Jimmy Mullin, #156 Brendan O'Donnell, #186 Teigan Zahn.

2011: #148 Nikita Nesterov, #178 Adam Wilcox, #201 Matthew Peca, #208 Ondrej Palat. 

2012: #101 Cedric Paquette, #161 Jake Dotchin, #202 Nikita Gusev.

2013: #124 Kristers Gudlevskis, #154 Henri Ikonen, #184 Saku Salminen, #186 Joel Vermin.

2014: #119 Ben Thomas, #170 Cristiano DiGiacinto, #185 Cameron Darcy.

2015: #118 Jonne Tammela, #120 Mathieu Joseph, #150 Ryan Zuhlsdorf, #153 Kris Oldham, #180 Kris Oldham.

2016: #118 Ross Colton, #148 Christopher Paquette, #178 Oleg Sosunov, #206 Otto Somppi, #208 Ryan Lohin.

 

A whole bunch of nothings, a few grinders/ tweeners, and the only player of consequence is Palat.  That's one top 6 winger out of 28 picks.  Sure, guys like Paquette and Joseph play for the Lightning, but you can get these type of players (see Schaller, Roussel, Beagle) every year in free agency, without the years of development.  Stockpiling 5th rounders isn't the recipe for a successful rebuild.  You're much more likely to just end up with 3 extra Ryan Zuhlsdorfs. 

 

It's a little early to judge the 2017 and 2018 drafts, but for reference:

2017: #169 Nicklaus Perbix, #180 Cole Guttman, #200 Samuel Walker.

2018: #121 Alex Green, #152 Magnus Chrona, #183 Cole Koepke, #206 Radim Salda, #214 Ty Taylor.

 

Not seeing a whole lot of potential for future Conn Smythe winners here.  As an aside, the Bolts have also had plenty of misses.  Look at some of their higher picks:

 

2010: #6 Brett Connolly -- #7 was Jeff Skinner.

2012: #10 Slater Koekkoek -- #11 was Filip Forsberg.

2013: #3 Jonathan Drouin (turned into Mikhail Sergachev) -- #4 was Seth Jones.

2014: #19 Tony DeAngelo -- #20 was Nick Schmaltz.

 

Instead of stockpiling long shots, Benning tried to get prospects who have pro experience and are more likely to at least play in the NHL in some capacity.  The vast majority of late round picks never reach 100 games in the NHL; a guy like Pouliot has done a great deal more than most fourth rounders.  Benning could've gotten more picks for Burrows and Hansen, but he went for Dahlen and Goldobin instead.  If he insisted on say, a 6th rounder from CBJ instead of Motte, he probably would've gotten it.  But then the Canucks would have three guys playing in juniors right now, instead of two in the NHL and another on the farm.

You speak way too much sense for these boards.... +10

[TomatoPieFan]

 

[TomatoPieFan]

 

[TomatoPieFan]

 

[Drop Em]

6 hours ago, vannuck59 said:

Yah while the Sedins were still here he had no choice but try to retool ownership gave him no choice.

Maybe, maybe not.....but even If they did, they didn't make him sign Eriksson.

[stawns]

20 hours ago, Drop Em said:

Maybe, maybe not.....but even If they did, they didn't make him sign Eriksson.

Which gave the team a solid two way player

[UTICANUCK]

Nice job Benning.  Utica now has no starting goaltender.   McKenna claimed on waivers by the Flyers.  So you traded Archie and Nillson for Tom Pyatt and a 6th round pick.  You have no goaltending depth should Marky or Demko or both get hurt.  

[UticaHockey]

35 minutes ago, UTICANUCK said:

Nice job Benning.  Utica now has no starting goaltender.   McKenna claimed on waivers by the Flyers.  So you traded Archie and Nillson for Tom Pyatt and a 6th round pick.  You have no goaltending depth should Marky or Demko or both get hurt.  

I will get crucified by the Benning lovers in this forum again but so be it.  This is another example of a poorly managed organization.

 

Here is an example of a well run organization the Toronto Maple Leafs.  They needed to make room for Nylander on the 23 man roster and worked out a trade for Leivo to the Canucks.  But they were not willing to take a player back that would require waivers so they had Benning place Leipsic on waivers and if he cleared they would have traded Leipsic for him.  When Leipsic was claimed they traded for Carcone instead.  The Canucks assumed the risk of losing an asset to waivers and the Leafs were guaranteed not to lose an asset that they could send to their AHL team.

 

In contrast Vancouver wanted to clear up a roster spot for Demko by moving Nilsson. With Bachman out for the season they had to receive a goalie in return.  But instead of finding a trading partner that had a NHL contracted goalie that is in the AHL and had already cleared waivers they took the route with more risk.  A goalie that needed to clear waivers  before he could be sent down.  The chances of McKenna being claimed may have appeared slim but obviously were not zero.  

 

But this is not just a Utica problem it is a Vancouver problem too that will require an immediate solution.  With Bachman out for the season the Canucks only have two NHL pro goalies under contract.  DiPietro can be an emergency recall but that is not a long term solution if Markstrom or Demko gets hurt and lets not forget Demko already missed two months this season with an injury.  There is no choice now but to trade for a depth goalie that has already cleared waivers and playing in the AHL.  And to do so they have to trade away another asset or draft pick that they should never of had to do.

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

I will get crucified by the Benning lovers in this forum again but so be it.  This is another example of a poorly managed organization.

 

Here is an example of a well run organization the Toronto Maple Leafs.  They needed to make room for Nylander on the 23 man roster and worked out a trade for Leivo to the Canucks.  But they were not willing to take a player back that would require waivers so they had Benning place Leipsic on waivers and if he cleared they would have traded Leipsic for him.  When Leipsic was claimed they traded for Carcone instead.  The Canucks assumed the risk of losing an asset to waivers and the Leafs were guaranteed not to lose an asset that they could send to their AHL team.

  

In contrast Vancouver wanted to clear up a roster spot for Demko by moving Nilsson. With Bachman out for the season they had to receive a goalie in return.  But instead of finding a trading partner that had a NHL contracted goalie that is in the AHL and had already cleared waivers they took the route with more risk.  A goalie that needed to clear waivers  before he could be sent down.  The chances of McKenna being claimed may have appeared slim but obviously were not zero.  

  

But this is not just a Utica problem it is a Vancouver problem too that will require an immediate solution.  With Bachman out for the season the Canucks only have two NHL pro goalies under contract.  DiPietro can be an emergency recall but that is not a long term solution if Markstrom or Demko gets hurt and lets not forget Demko already missed two months this season with an injury.  There is no choice now but to trade for a depth goalie that has already cleared waivers and playing in the AHL.  And to do so they have to trade away another asset or draft pick that they should never of had to do.

Makenna will be back on waivers when one of Philly's goalies is back, then Van gets him back and can send him down.

[alfstonker]

3 minutes ago, UticaHockey said:

I will get crucified by the Benning lovers in this forum again but so be it.  This is another example of a poorly managed organization.

 

Here is an example of a well run organization the Toronto Maple Leafs.  They needed to make room for Nylander on the 23 man roster and worked out a trade for Leivo to the Canucks.  But they were not willing to take a player back that would require waivers so they had Benning place Leipsic on waivers and if he cleared they would have traded Leipsic for him.  When Leipsic was claimed they traded for Carcone instead.  The Canucks assumed the risk of losing an asset to waivers and the Leafs were guaranteed not to lose an asset that they could send to their AHL team.

 

In contrast Vancouver wanted to clear up a roster spot for Demko by moving Nilsson. With Bachman out for the season they had to receive a goalie in return.  But instead of finding a trading partner that had a NHL contracted goalie that is in the AHL and had already cleared waivers they took the route with more risk.  A goalie that needed to clear waivers  before he could be sent down.  The chances of McKenna being claimed may have appeared slim but obviously were not zero.  

 

But this is not just a Utica problem it is a Vancouver problem too that will require an immediate solution.  With Bachman out for the season the Canucks only have two NHL pro goalies under contract.  DiPietro can be an emergency recall but that is not a long term solution if Markstrom or Demko gets hurt and lets not forget Demko already missed two months this season with an injury.  There is no choice now but to trade for a depth goalie that has already cleared waivers and playing in the AHL.  And to do so they have to trade away another asset or draft pick that they should never of had to do.

Most of that makes sense. However the key phrase here is "an NHL contracted goalie"

I think we need a goalie with way more than McKenna had so if we do indeed trade an asset for him at least we know we are likely to get someone NOT on the threshold of retirement and who has had more than a round of coffees in the show. 

I do agree that JB does not seem to be tuned into these kind of situations but he has two or three people around him who surely have input into these deals.