Huawei CFO arrested.

[HKSR]

45 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

My personal opinion is it's time Canada release Meng Wanzhou. I realize we have an extradition treaty with USA that we should honor. However Canada does not and should not back political prosecutions.

 

This is clearly a political prosecution. Trump even said as much when he said he'd be willing to use Meng Wanzhou's freedom as a bargaining chip in his trade negotiations with China. How much clearer does it need to be said than that?

 

It's put Canadian citizens at risk (the 2 Michaels) as well as straining relations between the 2 countries. What are we getting out of this? Apart from more aluminum tariffs?

 

 

Yeah, agreed.  This is between the US and China... why we got into the middle of it is beyond me.  Now it's just costing us relations with China, and makes no difference whatsoever with the US.  If US wants Meng that bad, then take her from us and deal with it on their own.  Leave us out of it.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, agreed.  This is between the US and China... why we got into the middle of it is beyond me.  Now it's just costing us relations with China, and makes no difference whatsoever with the US.  If US wants Meng that bad, then take her from us and deal with it on their own.  Leave us out of it.

Makes it easy when Bone Spurs enacts BS tariffs (eg., Aluminum).

[Violator]

China has put 4 canadians on death row now.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Violator

[Lancaster]

12 hours ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, agreed.  This is between the US and China... why we got into the middle of it is beyond me.  Now it's just costing us relations with China, and makes no difference whatsoever with the US.  If US wants Meng that bad, then take her from us and deal with it on their own.  Leave us out of it.

It's called the rule of law.  She is allowed her due process.  

China is not a friend and as crappy as the USA has been, anyone with any sense of rationality would pick the US over China 100%.

 

The CCP is just trying to bully Canada.  Meng has access to the best legal team money can buy.... if she is really innocent, she should have no concerns whether she makes it to the US or not.  If the US drops the ball, they will be receiving blow back, not Canada.  

 

The legal system has to operation outside of whoever is in power.  Interfere now and Canada will be admitting that they're no different from the Chinese and their "rule of law", which is none.  

[HKSR]

6 hours ago, Lancaster said:

It's called the rule of law.  She is allowed her due process.  

China is not a friend and as crappy as the USA has been, anyone with any sense of rationality would pick the US over China 100%.

 

The CCP is just trying to bully Canada.  Meng has access to the best legal team money can buy.... if she is really innocent, she should have no concerns whether she makes it to the US or not.  If the US drops the ball, they will be receiving blow back, not Canada.  

 

The legal system has to operation outside of whoever is in power.  Interfere now and Canada will be admitting that they're no different from the Chinese and their "rule of law", which is none.  

The issue isn't based on Canadian law.  Its based on American law and agreement between the US and Canada.  She belongs in the US right now and their judicial system.  Not ours.  Trump and the US are using Canada to do the dirty work and now Canadians are on death row in China.  

 

Ask yourself if this was a Russian executive, do you think we'd be in the same situation?  Or take that a step further ... Do you honestly think Trump and the US would do the same for Canada?  They would have let the person leave a long time ago.  

Edited August 8, 2020 by HKSR

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

The issue isn't based on Canadian law.  Its based on American law and agreement between the US and Canada.  She belongs in the US right now and their judicial system.  Not ours.  Trump and the US are using Canada to do the dirty work and now Canadians are on death row in China.  

 

Ask yourself if this was a Russian executive, do you think we'd be in the same situation?  Or take that a step further ... Do you honestly think Trump and the US would do the same for Canada?  They would have let the person leave a long time ago.  

Her whole court case in Canada is based on Canadian law on whether they should send her or not.  Canada isn't prosecuting her on her alleged crimes.  If anything, Canada is giving her a chance to not get sent to the US to face her allegations.  

[RUPERTKBD]

23 hours ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, agreed.  This is between the US and China... why we got into the middle of it is beyond me.  Now it's just costing us relations with China, and makes no difference whatsoever with the US.  If US wants Meng that bad, then take her from us and deal with it on their own.  Leave us out of it.

We didn't really have a choice. We have an extradition agreement with the US.

 

The idea that's currently being put forth would be to dissolve that agreement, although I'm not sure if that can be done unilaterally. It would create a lot of tension with the Americans, but in light of Trump's continuing tariff war, shortly after signing the USMCA, I might support such an action.

 

The problem I have, is that it sends an international message: If you want a political concession from Canada, the way to make it happen is to hold it's citizens hostage.

[UnkNuk]

Anyone know what Biden and the Democrats think about this case?

 

Is it possible that the Canadian government is waiting out for the American election and maybe hoping that, if Biden wins, the extradition request might be dropped, we release Meng Wanzhou and get the Canadians back?

[RUPERTKBD]

27 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

Anyone know what Biden and the Democrats think about this case?

 

Is it possible that the Canadian government is waiting out for the American election and maybe hoping that, if Biden wins, the extradition request might be dropped, we release Meng Wanzhou and get the Canadians back?

I'd be a bit surprised if Freeland hadn't at least made some overtures....the problem is, Biden can't really make any public promises before the election, lest he give the Trump campaign ammunition for their case that he's "soft" on China.

 

Privately, however....

Edited August 8, 2020 by RUPERTKBD

[Tortorella's Rant]

What a &^@#ing joke this is that it's still going on and we appear to be no closer to some sort of resolution. Negotiate her return for our guys rotting in dank cells and end this already. 

[Lancaster]

5 hours ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

What a &^@#ing joke this is that it's still going on and we appear to be no closer to some sort of resolution. Negotiate her return for our guys rotting in dank cells and end this already. 

That's a bad precedent.  

Pretty much every time China wants something, they could just kidnap a couple of Canadian with bogus charges.  

[Tortorella's Rant]

56 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

That's a bad precedent.  

Pretty much every time China wants something, they could just kidnap a couple of Canadian with bogus charges.  

It's a lesson for our federal government to not do the work of the authoritarian regime down south and we won't end up in this position again. If they want her, they can arrest her themselves. 

[CBH1926]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:33 AM, Chicken. said:

Yeah I have been there twice the population is ridiculous. It's a fun city. The air quality sure leaves something to be desired though that was the biggest difference for me coming back to Canada was being able to breath clean air and not be all sweaty from the humidity all the time.

 

Here is a video from my time there. kind of ruining my anonymity here but oh well. gives me goosebumps thinking i was this stupid to bungee jump in China 10 years ago.

 

 

For sure I could recognize your face from that old out of focus video!

 

[Chicken.]

30 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

For sure I could recognize your face from that old out of focus video!

 

Well I have never been to Chicago so seems unlikely   Thanks for watching 

[CBH1926]

2 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Well I have never been to Chicago so seems unlikely   Thanks for watching 

Yeah, but I have been to B.C plenty of times due to Canadian wife and I never forget faces.

[Lancaster]

1 hour ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

It's a lesson for our federal government to not do the work of the authoritarian regime down south and we won't end up in this position again. If they want her, they can arrest her themselves. 

So alternatively, some criminal flees Canada to any other country in the world, like the US, and we shouldn't bother extraditing them back?

I mean.... Canada should just arrest that person themselves, right?  

 

It's funny you would call the US authoritarian.... I mean, if Meng goes south, she should be afforded the best legal defense she can mount.  Whereas actual authoritarian regimes like China, actually kidnaps dual citizens and even foreigners and force confessions from them without any legal or consular assistance.  You're not a fan of the US, but lets not exaggerate things, there is no comparison.  

[Tortorella's Rant]

4 minutes ago, Lancaster said:

So alternatively, some criminal flees Canada to any other country in the world, like the US, and we shouldn't bother extraditing them back?

I mean.... Canada should just arrest that person themselves, right?  

 

It's funny you would call the US authoritarian.... I mean, if Meng goes south, she should be afforded the best legal defense she can mount.  Whereas actual authoritarian regimes like China, actually kidnaps dual citizens and even foreigners and force confessions from them without any legal or consular assistance.  You're not a fan of the US, but lets not exaggerate things, there is no comparison.  

So what is the end game? Because this is obviously going nowhere. You say any time China wants something they could just kidnap a couple of our guys: they already did that. It's time to deal. The US isn't authoritarian - not yet -- but they're clearly working on it. It hasn't been demonstrated any wrongdoing was committed to begin with. She's a pawn attempted to strong arm the Chinese government and our guys are rotting in cells because of it. We lose either way but we can mitigate the losses. We gain nothing by holding onto her.

[Lancaster]

2 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

So what is the end game? Because this is obviously going nowhere. You say any time China wants something they could just kidnap a couple of our guys: they already did that. It's time to deal. The US isn't authoritarian - not yet -- but they're clearly working on it. It hasn't been demonstrated any wrongdoing was committed to begin with. She's a pawn attempted to strong arm the Chinese government and our guys are rotting in cells because of it. We lose either way but we can mitigate the losses. We gain nothing by holding onto her.

It's about international agreements.  If it was Sweden asking for an extradition, should Canada assist?  Or should Canada just kowtow to any country more powerful?

Rules, regulations, agreement has to be blind... can't just go, "Oh, this involves the Chinese... so let it slide..."  

 

Canada is a nation of laws, not special treatment.  So far, Meng is being processed under Canadian law without any political interference.  If she doesn't get extradited, she will be on her merry way.  If she gets sent down, then GTFO.  The same rules applies regardless of what country is involved.  If Canada bends now, then Canada should just lube up and take it from every other country.  Canada is rightfully standing up now against a bully, to do anything less would be un-Canadian.  

[Mackcanuck]

Could see the 2 Michaels possibly(hopefully) coming home soon, 

 

 

In a report in the Wall Street Journal — which CBC had not independently verified — sources say the agreement with Meng would require her to admit to criminal wrongdoing. 

The newspaper reports that if she does that, U.S. prosecutors would defer the charges against her, and could even drop them at a later date. 

The report also says the proposed deal could pave the way for China to return Kovrig and Spavor, which is a factor that is in part motivating the discussions, according to the paper's sources. 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Mackcanuck

[UnkNuk]

One possible snag is Huawei itself (although now that the offer may actually be on the table perhaps a change of mind?).  From the G&M:

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-meng-wanzhou-in-talks-with-us-justice-department-to-allow-her-to/

 

If Huawei strikes a deal with U.S. authorities, it would amount to an about face for the company. One year ago, company founder Ren Zhengfei told The Globe in an interview that he would not countenance such a step.

 

“Not possible,” said Mr. Ren, who is Ms. Meng’s father.

 

He said “the U.S. is the side that should plead guilty,” rejecting the idea of a bargain even if it would set his daughter free. “It’s not worth it,” he said, calling it “a matter of principle.”

“She has committed no crime,” he told The Globe last year. “And we have full confidence in the judicial system of Canada.”

 

Since then, Ms. Meng has lost at least one key court battle, with the Supreme Court of British Columbia finding that the extradition case against her met a required standard of double criminality.

 

Historically, the overwhelming majority of extradition requests from the U.S. result in suspects being removed from Canada.