The TDL Benning Complaint Thread Department

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Either way, canucks likely aren't in cap trouble over the next 3 years, so it's not the end of the world to have a player who's a bit overpaid.

He’s a good deal for a team getting to the cap floor after next season. 

[appleboy]

3 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

So considering we were at the very start of a rebuild we should have be loading up on picks.  This is the very point where mgmt comes out and say, this process is going to take time and there are no shortcuts.

This is so true. Not only did they not try to load up in the first year they brought in Miller and did what they could to get another season that ended in first round sweep. I still remember the feeling of what a waist of a year that was. That was the year McDavid was drafted and the lotto was just for the first overall . I think that's right.

Even after that disastrous playoff round they still didn't try to get more picks and begin rebuilding. They have not gone into one draft yet with all their picks or more.

It has turned this so called rebuild into a turtle derby.  I worry that Bo's contract will be up by the time we have enough talent to compete.

Chicago drafted Debrinkat in the second round. We didn't even get a shot at him. Why? Because we didn't have our second round pick. 

[appleboy]

LE , Beagle , Roussel all have three years left. It is the last year of their deals will be when we will  resigning both Petey and Hughes. Maybe Boeser if they sign a bridge deal.

They can probably move them in the final year so that is not so bad. It might cost an asset. This off season doesn't have much cap space for UFA's. This could be a god send.

They will need  to move players out like Sutter or Tanev to make room for any UFA's. Or make a HOCKEY trade.   

[beni]

Wrong thread

[beni]

58 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Umm.... LE has another 3 years left after this year and his salary owed is 5 mill next year followed by 4 and another 4.

I think you're mistaking the idea that after July 1st if we move him... post signing bonus then he’s got 3 years left with 9 mill total so 3 per.  But He’s also got a full NTC next season and a modified (15 team list) clause in his final two years. That’s far from an easily movable contract. 

 

 

 

Maybe they will be lucky and Seattle will pick him up 

[kanucks25]

Nevermind forget everything I've said, here we come Stanley

[aGENT]

3 hours ago, appleboy said:

I made a mistake. I forgot the players on IR. So we will have 16 mil left  over and 18 signed. S o we need to sign Brock, Edler and Hutton. That leaves 2 spots to fill.

So the 16 mil will not go very far. We might have 3 to 4 mil to spend. 

Brock 6 mil

Edler 5 mil

Hutton 4 mil     So we now have 1 mil to for two more spots.  

 

So we already have cap troubles.   

 

Nope.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, kanucks25 said:

It's a common pro-Benning argument.

 

"couldn't have done this, couldn't have done that, how do you know if we could have done this?"

 

It's as if Benning is the most cunning, shrewd, creative GM in history and if he didn't do it, nope, it couldn't have happened.

 

Couldn't have more easily moved out the NTC players or for better returns, couldn't have survived without the age gap trades and signings, couldn't have weaponized cap space. Pretty much anything Benning has done wrong, there were no alternatives.

Straw.

 

Man.

[Tomatoes11]

On 3/4/2019 at 9:26 PM, canucksnihilist said:

Well neither JB nor Chirelli can trade worth $&!#.   So it must have been someone else in Boston

 

seriously....  So you cringe when you think about JBs future trades?  I do.... same with FA signings.  But we have needed - and will continue to need drafting.

 

Gillis for trades and FA.   JB for drafting.  If you can only have one I’d choose drafting.... so im a JB supporter.  Its tough to get all 3 - but without drafting you will suck its just a matter of time.

Lol why are we even talking about the Bruins like they are their NFL counterparts the Patriots? Lol They are the same as Tampa and Carolina when they won their fluky cups. Main reason was a lot of luck and the league giving American teams certain minor advantages over Canadian teams. Well, in Tampa’s case that wasn’t minor, that was pretty bad and Flames should have won in 6. 

 

One fluky cup and we hire their staff as our GM for some reason. That fact alone tells us how flawed Benning really is. His whole hiring was based on false pretences. 

 

If we hired bill belichek and taught him hockey that might work. Then again it could fail badly just like the weisbrod experiment.  We have both weisbrod and Benning unfortunately.....sigh.

 

The Penguins, hawks, and kings were the models we were supposed to model our team after, not the Bruins.

[TheRealistOptimist]

7 hours ago, appleboy said:

I made a mistake. I forgot the players on IR. So we will have 16 mil left  over and 18 signed. S o we need to sign Brock, Edler and Hutton. That leaves 2 spots to fill.

So the 16 mil will not go very far. We might have 3 to 4 mil to spend. 

Brock 6 mil

Edler 5 mil

Hutton 4 mil     So we now have 1 mil to for two more spots.  

 

So we already have cap troubles.   

 

Go do your math again cause you're not doing it right haha.

[appleboy]

5 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

Go do your math again cause you're not doing it right haha.

This is the new tally without a few whisky's under my belt.

Le , Bo , Pearson , Spooner , Roussel ,Beagle , Schaller , Petey , Gaudette    add up to                                                                              $28,091,666

Stecher , Beiga , Brisebois , Sauntner.                                                                                                                                                            $ 4,522,500

Marky                                                                                                                                                                                                               $ 3,666,667

Players on IR signed for next year.       Jake , Tanev , Sutter , Virtanen                                                                                                          $13,441,666

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                         Total        $49,722,499       For 18 players

Cap friendly   says it is for 14 forwards so I added the IR list which is wrong. It is for 18 players.

So we have 28 mil to sign 5 players.        Edler , Boeser, Demko  and Hutton .    UFA ?        

That still is not a lot of cash after Edler , Boeser and Hutton are signed.  They will more then likely need to clear out a little via trades in off season. UFA deals are usually expensive and come with term so they will need to look a head two years to when Petey and Hughes will need deals.  Hughes will get to burn this year so he will have two to go and line up with Petey.

The point about Roussel , Beagle and LE is that they have three years to go so their last year will still be a on the books when Petey's and Hughes new deals will come on line.

We do not have a lot of cap space to waist and if they do deals hopping that the cap goes up they could end up in a bind. The UFA market can get them in a "cap" load of trouble real fast.      

You can't buy your way out of a rebuild anymore.

[Smashian Kassian]

17 minutes ago, appleboy said:

 

We do not have a lot of cap space to waist and if they do deals hopping that the cap goes up they could end up in a bind.

 

The UFA market can get them in a "cap" load of trouble real fast.      

 

You can't buy your way out of a rebuild anymore.

 Heres the crux of it, and I agree, there is not a huge margin for error anymore.

 

This could be JB's biggest summer as GM. Its a critical point in the rebuild where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we arent there yet. Still need to add more pieces. 

 

They gotta hit on whatever moves they make this summer. Cant afford another Eriksson signing or Gudbranson trade. 

[appleboy]

1 hour ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 Heres the crux of it, and I agree, there is not a huge margin for error anymore.

 

This could be JB's biggest summer as GM. Its a critical point in the rebuild where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, but we arent there yet. Still need to add more pieces. 

 

They gotta hit on whatever moves they make this summer. Cant afford another Eriksson signing or Gudbranson trade. 

Yes.

We all think Petey is going to be a star in this league and our hopes are that Hughes is the same. So they may need 18 mil to handle those two. Then if we land a star plyer in this years draft we will only have 3 years before he will need a new deal . So years 3 and 4 from now we might need a ton of cash. This is what has got the oilers in trouble. Then they had to start to jettison players for cap relief. They must be planning 5 years ahead.

People will say that we won't need to worry because there will be players contracts that are running out. True but if you want to maintain a high level of talent around your stars then you will be replacing those contracts with ones of similar value. When you lock up UFA's for long term and they are older then you know that at the end of their deals they will be playing at a reduced level ,yet you will have large amounts of cap space tied up in them.  This will reduce your ability to maintain the skill level required o win in this league.

Managing your cap is a very large part of maintaining a winning hockey club. Adding the right players at the proper time can only be done if you have cap space.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, appleboy said:

This is the new tally without a few whisky's under my belt.

Le , Bo , Pearson , Spooner , Roussel ,Beagle , Schaller , Petey , Gaudette    add up to                                                                              $28,091,666

Stecher , Beiga , Brisebois , Sauntner.                                                                                                                                                            $ 4,522,500

Marky                                                                                                                                                                                                               $ 3,666,667

Players on IR signed for next year.       Jake , Tanev , Sutter , Virtanen                                                                                                          $13,441,666

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                         Total        $49,722,499       For 18 players

Cap friendly   says it is for 14 forwards so I added the IR list which is wrong. It is for 18 players.

So we have 28 mil to sign 5 players.        Edler , Boeser, Demko  and Hutton .    UFA ?        

That still is not a lot of cash after Edler , Boeser and Hutton are signed.  They will more then likely need to clear out a little via trades in off season. UFA deals are usually expensive and come with term so they will need to look a head two years to when Petey and Hughes will need deals.  Hughes will get to burn this year so he will have two to go and line up with Petey.

The point about Roussel , Beagle and LE is that they have three years to go so their last year will still be a on the books when Petey's and Hughes new deals will come on line.

We do not have a lot of cap space to waist and if they do deals hopping that the cap goes up they could end up in a bind. The UFA market can get them in a "cap" load of trouble real fast.      

You can't buy your way out of a rebuild anymore.

Yup, 'only' +/- $10m for a UFA and that's before moving any of Sutter, Tanev, possibly Hutton etc. Quite the crisis 

 

And again, the next two years see all of Pearson, Spooner, Schaller, Tanev and Baer come off the books and the year after that Eriksson, Roussel and Beagle (as well as likely Edler's extension).

 

I'm so worried about our cap space....

[aGENT]

Just now, appleboy said:

True but if you want to maintain a high level of talent around your stars then you will be replacing those contracts with ones of similar value.

No, you have high end talent in your Horvat's, Petterson's, Boeser's, Hughes etc and start to jettison expensive vets as those guys mature and surround them with less expensive support players from your prospect pool on ELC and bridge deals.

 

#rebuild

[appleboy]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

No, you have high end talent in your Horvat's, Petterson's, Boeser's, Hughes etc and start to jettison expensive vets as those guys mature and surround them with less expensive support players from your prospect pool on ELC and bridge deals.

 

#rebuild

That is if you have young players in your system that are developing enough. We will see how they do with moving out Loui when the time comes. It is what has screwed the Oilers. Don't you think it would be wise to manage and plan ahead.

It can also cost you assets to convince someone to take over your mess. Something that this manage has done a poor job of stock piling.

We will see how this all unfolds over the next few years. 

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, appleboy said:

That is if you have young players in your system that are developing enough. We will see how they do with moving out Loui when the time comes. It is what has screwed the Oilers. Don't you think it would be wise to manage and plan ahead.

It can also cost you assets to convince someone to take over your mess. Something that this manage has done a poor job of stock piling.

We will see how this all unfolds over the next few years. 

Who says we don't? Our idiotic click bait media? What a laugh. We have plenty of kids developing just fine in Utica, College, Juniors and Europe and will only be adding more this draft, next draft etc.

 

Eriksson's contract is quite move-able the last two years after his bonus is paid July1. And even if not, it's not so far off on the horizon that's it's a large, long term problem. Most teams have a contract or two they'd prefer not, and seem to manage just fine (see: Callahan - TBL). We have loads of space this summer and have plenty of salary coming off the next 2, 3 and 4 years to cover raises. 

 

Never mind the rising cap and Seattle expansion as additional cushions.

 

Wise to plan ahead? Yes, precisely why contracts have been structured as they are. We're INCREDIBLY well positioned for cap space despite your unwarranted fears, and that not some mere coincidence. Benning and Co have purposely done so.

 

 

[Borvat]

23 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Yup, 'only' +/- $10m for a UFA and that's before moving any of Sutter, Tanev, possibly Hutton etc. Quite the crisis 

 

And again, the next two years see all of Pearson, Spooner, Schaller, Tanev and Baer come off the books and the year after that Eriksson, Roussel and Beagle (as well as likely Edler's extension).

 

I'm so worried about our cap space....

I thought you were of the belief that Sutter (below) can't be moved?  Now he can be moved?  So......Free Agent? 

 

If you want to know what a Sutter-less Canucks looks like without the appropriate framework, you need look no further than our time without him this season. Massive losing streaks and scoring droughts.

 

No thanks IMO.

[aGENT]

10 minutes ago, Borvat said:

I thought you were of the belief that Sutter (below) can't be moved?  Now he can be moved?  So......Free Agent? 

 

If you want to know what a Sutter-less Canucks looks like without the appropriate framework, you need look no further than our time without him this season. Massive losing streaks and scoring droughts.

 

No thanks IMO.

I also said from that same discussion:

 

On 3/5/2019 at 3:55 PM, aGENT said:

Don't disagree.

 

Do however disagree that we currently have the personnel to do so. Now that may very well change over the summer... but as of right now, we have two match up lines for many clear and distinct reasons IMO.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 4:18 PM, aGENT said:

Sure, but again, you need the personnel to actually do that.

 

And that 'one dimension' is what allows the offensive zone starts and easier minutes to Pettersson and Horvat's lines so that they can 'create with speed and have puck possession' like you (we all) want. Look at how their output has plummeted with Sutter (and Edler and Tanev) out. That's not a coincidence. People can't act like the two aren't connected...

 

Until they have more/better wingers to work with and Pettersson in particular (and his 70% O zone starts) have more size and experience to not require so much sheltering, I don't see that drastically changing.

 

Now say we win the lotto this summer, draft Kakko 2nd overall and add a key piece or two via UFA while moving out some of our excess depth in the middle pairs on D/middle lines at F for some upgrades and EP comes in next fall stronger and more savvy...then maybe we have a different story next fall.

 

Those things (or something like them) need to actually happen first though.

 

On 3/5/2019 at 6:58 PM, aGENT said:

No, it means Sutter is no longer required to shelter the top 6 and we can focus that lineup spot and minutes, elsewhere. We're not there yet. Maybe we will be after this summer *crosses fingers*

 

Healthy, he's over 50%.

 

This isn't particularly about Gaudette. He's not in competition with Sutter's current role.

 

They make a difference on D, he makes a difference at forward. Without him, Horvat gets relied on in that role and it reduces his offensive output and also makes us basically a one line offensive team and Pettersson more easily shut down. Hence the scoring slump he/the team are presently in. This isn't rocket dentistry.

 

I agree with the last bit. But again, you need the proper framework around Gaudette for that to be successful. We're not there yet. Maybe we will be after this summer.

 

 

 

[JM_]

8 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Who says we don't? Our idiotic click bait media? What a laugh. We have plenty of kids developing just fine in Utica, College, Juniors and Europe and will only be adding more this draft, next draft etc.

 

Eriksson's contract is quite move-able the last two years after his bonus is paid July1. And even if not, it's not so far off on the horizon that's it's a large, long term problem. Most teams have a contract or two they'd prefer not, and seem to manage just fine (see: Callahan - TBL). We have loads of space this summer and have plenty of salary coming off the next 2, 3 and 4 years to cover raises. 

 

Never mind the rising cap and Seattle expansion as additional cushions.

 

Wise to plan ahead? Yes, precisely why contracts have been structured as they are. We're INCREDIBLY well positioned for cap space despite your unwarranted fears, and that not some mere coincidence. Benning and Co have purposely done so.

 

 

capfriendly has us at 28+ mil, we know its going up so lets go with a conservative 30 mil cap space.

 

Motte - 1.5 to 2

Leivo - 2

Boeser - 7

Goldy - 2

Edler - 6-7

Hutty - 4

Demko - 2

 

So somewhere around 4 to 6 mil cap space left over. 

 

so if this is somewhere in the neighbourhood of what these guys get someone has to be moved for a big ticket free agent signing like a Karlsson, Panarin or Myers. But its only a problem for next season, the cap space goes up to 48 mil for 2020-21.

 

If we're able to sign Myers or Karlsson, someone will take Tanev off our hands for a bargain, cap problem solved. If we get Panarin, it becomes a little more difficult as we'd have to move Loui (which I think is possible, just might require losing a 2nd rounder or good prospect) or some combination of Sutter and another roster player. 

 

Its not a slam dunk but its certainly all doable.