5Fivehole0 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Alflives said: What younger guys? The guys were all older. Vey, Baer, Dorset, Sutter, Guddy etc were all older guys who were pretty much already what they were going to be. I’d rather have the picks. With top picks there is always a chance we get an elite player The problem with that is, the players we traded weren't worth top picks. People on here are acting like Benning traded away top end old guys for 30 year olds. 24 is still YOUNG in the NHL. 27 is the beginning of a players prime, not 24. Name one player who peaked at 24 who wasn't a bust. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Alflives said: What younger guys? The guys were all older. Vey, Baer, Dorset, Sutter, Guddy etc were all older guys who were pretty much already what they were going to be. I’d rather have the picks. With top picks there is always a chance we get an elite player This exactly. A lottery ticket or scratch and win is always better to have than say used dental floss or a used sock. Which was effectively what Benning traded the picks for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Alflives said: What younger guys? The guys were all older. Vey, Baer, Dorset, Sutter, Guddy etc were all older guys who were pretty much already what they were going to be. I’d rather have the picks. With top picks there is always a chance we get an elite player So why are people still mad about trading Forsling and McCann? Neither are impact players. At 22 they're obviously what they going to be. Vey and Etem were 23, Clendenning, Baer and Granny were all 22 when we acquired them. Here's another thing we disagree on. I don't consider 2nd rounders "top picks". You have a much higher chance of nothing than just something. And really poor odds of elite. The vast majority will go through the same process as Vey, Baer, and Granny with the odds against getting as good as any of them. When you start with virtually nothing is it truly wise to put all your eggs into the longshot basket? Sutter has been good for us, and a guy young guys could learn from. I wish to god we still had a healthy Dorsett. I'd make that deal again in a heartbeat. 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: The problem with that is, the players we traded weren't worth top picks. People on here are acting like Benning traded away top end old guys for 30 year olds. 24 is still YOUNG in the NHL. 27 is the beginning of a players prime, not 24. Name one player who peaked at 24 who wasn't a bust. Kane, toews, Keith, seabrook, doughty, kopitar all started competing young and slowed down extremely once they almost hit 30 or hit 30. Hence the kings and hawks sucking now. You have a bizarre timeline. You know exactly what you got when they hit 24 most of the time. And if you don’t have a star yet, you have an disposable asset if you find a sucker for them. And that’s exactly what those gm’s did by disposing them to us for some promising picks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2022 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: His asset management has been piss poor. I don’t know how anyone can defend it really. It doesn’t take 5 years to clean house no matter how handcuffed you are. If he wasnt given any resources I could understand, but FA has given him plenty of $$$$ to work with. And there were plenty of assets he could have moved but instead chose to hang on to them until they depreciated completely. Tanev is going to be the next example of an asset pissed away because he is somehow “needed” to insulate the kids on the back end. Insulate them to another bottom 6 or 7th last finish. Lol By the time we finally trade sutter and another one of his mistakes, Baertschi, they will be worth nothing too. He has a misguided timeline like his fans do. We are at least 4 years away so Sutter, Tanev, and some others are completely unnecessary. Not to mention the other useless stuff we gave up assets for like Dorsett. And when he finally does move people, he moves someone with potential to contribute in 4 years instead in Dahlen. Hopefully Karlsson turns out and Goldolbin becomes a force or he will have absolutely nothing from his non draft pick moves. Even out of his draft picks it’s just Boeser and EP technically in his 5 years of drafting super high. The jury is still out on the rest of the prospects he drafted although Gaudette is almost graduated, but that would just make a grand total of 3 in 5 years. He really missed out on Tkachuk even more so than his Nylander and Ehlers miss. Benning is at best extremely overrated here but at worse the worst GM in the league. I tend to side with the latter myself. Become a leaf fan please 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abysmal Moniker Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'm starting to think the Venn diagram of the anti-Benning crowd and the pro-Trump crowd is a circle. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: This exactly. A lottery ticket or scratch and win is always better to have than say used dental floss or a used sock. Which was effectively what Benning traded the picks for. How many of those lottery picks acquired by the leafs since 2014 have helped them turn around their team? Zero that’s how many. The only reason the Leafs are good is cause they hit on 2 Elite players, 1 arguably generational in Matthews (#1) and Marner (#4), plus they hit on Nylander (#8) and they already had Morgan Reilly (#5) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: Kane, toews, Keith, seabrook, doughty, kopitar all started competing young and slowed down extremely once they almost hit 30 or hit 30. Hence the kings and hawks sucking now. You have a bizarre timeline. You know exactly what you got when they hit 24 most of the time. And if you don’t have a star yet, you have an disposable asset if you find a sucker for them. And that’s exactly what those gm’s did by disposing them to us for some promising longshot picks. Fixed that for you. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said: The problem with that is, the players we traded weren't worth top picks. People on here are acting like Benning traded away top end old guys for 30 year olds. 24 is still YOUNG in the NHL. 27 is the beginning of a players prime, not 24. Name one player who peaked at 24 who wasn't a bust. Are you living from 15 years ago? More people peak at 24 nowadays then they do 27.... check the stats of all the top players in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: Kane, toews, Keith, seabrook, doughty, kopitar all started competing young and slowed down extremely once they almost hit 30 or hit 30. Hence the kings and hawks sucking now. You have a bizarre timeline. You know exactly what you got when they hit 24 most of the time. And if you don’t have a star yet, you have an disposable asset if you find a sucker for them. And that’s exactly what those gm’s did by disposing them to us for some promising picks. No offence, but you can't cherry pick elite players when doing a check like that. Of course when a guy like Kopitar explodes onto the scene with 61 points in 72 games, you know what you have. How about guys like Nick Bonino, who at 24 wasn't even a full time NHLer. What about Baertschi who was having his best start of a season at 26? What about Silfverberg whom at 24 only had 23 points and wasn't even a full time player in the NHL? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said: Kane, toews, Keith, seabrook, doughty, kopitar all started competing young and slowed down extremely once they almost hit 30 or hit 30. Hence the kings and hawks sucking now. You have a bizarre timeline. You know exactly what you got when they hit 24 most of the time. And if you don’t have a star yet, you have an disposable asset if you find a sucker for them. And that’s exactly what those gm’s did by disposing them to us for some promising picks. Kane at 27 had arguably his best season of his career, at 30 this year, he’s about to put up his highest point total of his career. Kopitar put up 92 points at age 30, the most of his career. Your statement is ridiculous. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said: How many of those lottery picks acquired by the leafs since 2014 have helped them turn around their team? Zero that’s how many. The only reason the Leafs are good is cause they hit on 2 Elite players, 1 arguably generational in Matthews (#1) and Marner (#4), plus they hit on Nylander (#8) and they already had Morgan Reilly (#5) Why use the Leafs as an example? Why not use Boston, tampa bay and etc? The league have 30 teams ya know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said: Kane at 27 had arguably his best season of his career, at 30 this year, he’s about to put up his highest point total of his career. Kopitar put up 92 points at age 30, the most of his career. Your statement is ridiculous. Also this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Their farm system is stocked, creating competition and they have used prospects like Grundstrom in trade That's what happens when you suck for a decade. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Their farm system is stocked, creating competition and they have used prospects like Grundstrom in trade Yes but those lottery picks aren’t elite players. Edit: (and by lottery, I’m not talking top half of the 1st round picks, just any picks received in trades) They also haven’t received any elite players from trading any of those prospects. Edited March 17, 2019 by TheRealistOptimist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Drakrami said: Why use the Leafs as an example? Why not use Boston, tampa bay and etc? The league have 30 teams ya know Because everybody likes to use them as an ideal example of how you rebuild. Trade players for picks, sign players then trade them for picks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said: Kane at 27 had arguably his best season of his career, at 30 this year, he’s about to put up his highest point total of his career. Kopitar put up 92 points at age 30, the most of his career. Your statement is ridiculous. Okay fair enough, I might have been off base on Kane since he is a special talent but Kopitars season was definitely an outlier. And Keith, seabrook, toews, doughty, quick etc are totally on point. Not a ridiculous statement at all. Thats just how it is these days. They all start young now just like EP, Boeser, Tkachuk, chabot, other Tkachuk, Svechinikov, AHO, kokienemi etc. They all can play right away these days. Except goalies of course. By the time they are 24 and still not on the nhl roster, they are already expired goods. Heck Benning himself dumps them before they expire like Dahlen, subban, Forsling, McCann. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 20 minutes ago, The 5th Line said: Their farm system is stocked, creating competition and they have used prospects like Grundstrom in trade Bad move. People freaked about trading Forsling and Shinkaruk here. People freaked about trading McCann as well. Can you imagine how bad it would have been had we traded him for a 2nd and two 4th's? Then compound that freak out by adding another roster player with him. Then compound it again by taking two cap dump pending ufa's back on top of it. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Where's Wellwood Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said: Technically he's not incorrect, we traded that pick away for Pedan in 2014, but then reacquired it later when we traded Bonino, Clendening and a 2nd round pick to the penguins two years later. Umm we have, we chose not to sign either of them to an ELC,. https://canucksarmy.com/2017/05/05/report-canucks-also-wont-sign-2015-draft-pick-tate-olson/ https://canucksarmy.com/2018/05/01/report-canucks-will-not-sign-2016-draft-picks-brett-mckenzie-and-cole-candella/ Come on people, I'm not saying I agree with this thread, since I actually want JB to stay, but if you're going to call someone out at least make sure you know what you're talking about. That's what I said. We gave up on them. They shouldn't be in the net in anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 43 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said: Because everybody likes to use them as an ideal example of how you rebuild. Trade players for picks, sign players then trade them for picks. Imo Leafs just lucked out with Matthews(#1) and Marner(#5) being exceptionally good. It was not their method of rebuilding that's gotten them here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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