JB has thrown away far too many assets - needs to be replaced as GM

[Baggins]

15 minutes ago, Tomatoes11 said:

Okay fair enough, I might have been off base on Kane since he is a special talent but Kopitars season was definitely an outlier. And Keith, seabrook, toews, doughty, quick  etc are totally on point. Not a ridiculous statement at all.

 

Thats just how it is these days. They all start young now just like EP, Boeser, Tkachuk, chabot, other Tkachuk, Svechinikov, AHO, kokienemi etc. They all can play right away these days. Except goalies of course. 

 

By the time they are 24 and still not on the nhl roster, they are already expired goods. Heck Benning himself dumps them before they expire like Dahlen, subban, Forsling, McCann. 

Keith and Quick both finished junior and played two AHL seasons before making the NHL. They are the only ones you named selected outside the first round Doughty, Toews, and Kane were all top 3 picks. One would expect big things from them. 

 

Forsling split this past season between the AHL and NHL. At 22 he must be in the reject pile by now as Clendenning, Baertschi and Granlund were all rejects we acquired at 22. Vey and Etem were both 23. Meaning all acquired before your 24 year old expiry date. But the Forsling whining makes me laugh as much now as it did when he was traded. 

[Baggins]

21 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

?  They are trading for playoff depth, we are not..well we shouldn't be 

I'm referring to what Florida got for the oh so valuable McCann not what Pittsburgh is doing. Read my post again.

[ruilin96]

To me the biggest mistake JB made in his tenure as the Canucks GM are the 2 following moves:

1). Louie Eriksson signing.

2). Overvalue of Erik Gudbranson

 

I don't think JB envisioned Eriksson to declined this significantly after his 30-goals season in Boston. He probably expected atleast 20 goals and 50 points productions in the first few seasons of this contract and clearly it hasn't been the case. Right now Louie is taking up $6 million in cap space and clearly these money could be better spent else where to address either scoring at the top 6 level or offense from the back end.

 

I think JB overvalued Gudbranson right from the beginning. At the time we acquired him, Gudbranson was 24, RHD who plays physical/throw-back style of hockey. JB was trying to address both physicality and depth on the blueline by acquiring Gudbranson. He saw Gudbranson as someone who can be an anchored of the Canucks blueline going forward. He saw Gudbranson eventually develops into atleast a #3 D-man. Unfortunately, Gudbranson is better off as a #5/#6 D man. At the time JB didn't see the trend of the modern NHL D-man are trending towards speed and skill, and Gudbranson's play style just doesn't fit the current era of hockey. Gudbranson would of been great during the dead-puck era, and he just isn't suited for this new era of hockey nor can he be the go to guy on the blue line. He is better off as a depth and supporting D-man.

 

If anything, it has shown that JB has learned his lesson. Since Eriksson, JB has stop throwing around money/term on the big fishes at the UFA market, he just brings in depth guys in short to mid-range terms.

 

He realized his mistake with Gudbranson and in the 2018 draft, he shows that he understands the trends current NHL style D-man and drafted Quinn Hughes.

[Baggins]

8 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

To me the biggest mistake JB made in his tenure as the Canucks GM are the 2 following moves:

1). Louie Eriksson signing.

2). Overvalue of Erik Gudbranson

 

I don't think JB envisioned Eriksson to declined this significantly after his 30-goals season in Boston. He probably expected atleast 20 goals and 50 points productions in the first few seasons of this contract and clearly it hasn't been the case. Right now Louie is taking up $6 million in cap space and clearly these money could be better spent else where to address either scoring at the top 6 level or offense from the back end.

 

I think JB overvalued Gudbranson right from the beginning. At the time we acquired him, Gudbranson was 24, RHD who plays physical/throw-back style of hockey. JB was trying to address both physicality and depth on the blueline by acquiring Gudbranson. He saw Gudbranson as someone who can be an anchored of the Canucks blueline going forward. He saw Gudbranson eventually develops into atleast a #3 D-man. Unfortunately, Gudbranson is better off as a #5/#6 D man. At the time JB didn't see the trend of the modern NHL D-man are trending towards speed and skill, and Gudbranson's play style just doesn't fit the current era of hockey. Gudbranson would of been great during the dead-puck era, and he just isn't suited for this new era of hockey nor can he be the go to guy on the blue line. He is better off as a depth and supporting D-man.

 

If anything, it has shown that JB has learned his lesson. Since Eriksson, JB has stop throwing around money/term on the big fishes at the UFA market, he just brings in depth guys in short to mid-range terms.

 

He realized his mistake with Gudbranson and in the 2018 draft, he shows that he understands the trends current NHL style D-man and drafted Quinn Hughes.

Eriksson is the only guy Benning has given term to. I see one to two years as the show me, bridge deals. Three to four years a typical deal. Five to six years the bottom end of long term. And anything over that as firmly in the long term that can possibly screw you down the road range. But considering we're well below the cap I don't see how it's money lost that could be spent elsewhere. It's pure hindsight it was a mistake. It's the kind of mistake that happens frequently in free agency. It's tough to predict when a players production will take a big downturn. And the way his contract is set up I see him as moveable in the final two years.

[HockeyHarry]

Was this thread made by Tony (the whiner) Gallagher?  I swear it was as he started this rant on 1040 last week. 

Just no Patience people....whine , whine whine.

 

The throwing around draft picks stuff was Aqua man fault for not wanting a rebuild. JB just did his job trying to plz his boss.

anyways can’t turn back time, just gotta deal with those bad years and how unfortunate it was too bring us EP40, BB6 and QH43. I think those 3 players might be good players one day and I think their still young. So have some backbone and relax things are going to be ok.

 

[DrJockitch]

6 hours ago, ruilin96 said:

To me the biggest mistake JB made in his tenure as the Canucks GM are the 2 following moves:

1). Louie Eriksson signing.

2). Overvalue of Erik Gudbranson

 

I don't think JB envisioned Eriksson to declined this significantly after his 30-goals season in Boston. He probably expected atleast 20 goals and 50 points productions in the first few seasons of this contract and clearly it hasn't been the case. Right now Louie is taking up $6 million in cap space and clearly these money could be better spent else where to address either scoring at the top 6 level or offense from the back end.

 

I think JB overvalued Gudbranson right from the beginning. At the time we acquired him, Gudbranson was 24, RHD who plays physical/throw-back style of hockey. JB was trying to address both physicality and depth on the blueline by acquiring Gudbranson. He saw Gudbranson as someone who can be an anchored of the Canucks blueline going forward. He saw Gudbranson eventually develops into atleast a #3 D-man. Unfortunately, Gudbranson is better off as a #5/#6 D man. At the time JB didn't see the trend of the modern NHL D-man are trending towards speed and skill, and Gudbranson's play style just doesn't fit the current era of hockey. Gudbranson would of been great during the dead-puck era, and he just isn't suited for this new era of hockey nor can he be the go to guy on the blue line. He is better off as a depth and supporting D-man.

 

If anything, it has shown that JB has learned his lesson. Since Eriksson, JB has stop throwing around money/term on the big fishes at the UFA market, he just brings in depth guys in short to mid-range terms.

 

He realized his mistake with Gudbranson and in the 2018 draft, he shows that he understands the trends current NHL style D-man and drafted Quinn Hughes.

I agree with what you say and do think he is learning slowly. But to say he learned the lesson about overvaluing Guddy is wrong.

He over valued Sutter first, made the exact same mistakes with a player that similarly is built for how the league used to be. 

And while these are his most egregious mistakes it ignores a lot of them just in the UFA department. 

Schaller

Gagner

MDZ

 

for every Roussel there has been three bad contracts handed out. 

The rate of success on trades is only marginally better. 

No doubt JB took a hard job. A impatient educated fan base, a team with no prospects that was stale and flush with vets with NMC and not a lot of motivation, plus Tortorella. This hasn’t been helped as far as getting the rebuild going by FA wanting to do the right thing and not strip down the team while the Sedins were still playing. I certainly give JB some space because of those factors. It is hard to argue though that he has done very well in any aspect of being a GM except the most important one, drafting.  I used to say drafting and development when writing that sentence but I am starting to wonder if not giving him to much credit for the development occurring in junior and college organizations. 

[spur1]

All I have to say is THANKS JB. 

[Toews]

6 hours ago, HockeyHarry said:

Was this thread made by Tony (the whiner) Gallagher?  I swear it was as he started this rant on 1040 last week. 

Just no Patience people....whine , whine whine.

 

The throwing around draft picks stuff was Aqua man fault for not wanting a rebuild. JB just did his job trying to plz his boss.

anyways can’t turn back time, just gotta deal with those bad years and how unfortunate it was too bring us EP40, BB6 and QH43. I think those 3 players might be good players one day and I think their still young. So have some backbone and relax things are going to be ok.

 

I agree that there was resistance to rebuilding from ownership but that does not completely absolve Benning imo. If our pro-scouting was any good, we would have something to show for many of these trades. 

 

Drafting is only part of the responsibility of a GM. Benning is above average in one area while lacking in others. I believe having Brackett running the draft while having an experienced GM doing signings and trades is the way to go moving forward.

[5Fivehole0]

10 minutes ago, Toews said:

I agree that there was resistance to rebuilding from ownership but that does not completely absolve Benning imo. If our pro-scouting was any good, we would have something to show for many of these trades. 

 

Drafting is only part of the responsibility of a GM. Benning is above average in one area while lacking in others. I believe having Brackett running the draft while having an experienced GM doing signings and trades is the way to go moving forward.

Goldobin for Hansen
Baertschi for a 2nd
Motte for Vanek
Granlund for Shinkaruk
Pouliot for Archibald
Leivo for Carcone

Hansens gone, Goldobin in NHL
Baertschis 2nd became Rasmus Anderson - Good trade for both teams I'd say. Vancouver with the edge getting a 20+ goal scorer, too bad about injuries
Vanek never resigned with Jackets and didn't win squat. Mottes a great 4th liner.
Granlund for a bust
A 6/7 Dman for an AHLer
30-40 point forward for an AHLer

I picked the trades that had a young NHL player coming back our way. Benning came out like a bandit in all those trades.

[Drakrami]

39 minutes ago, 5Fivehole0 said:

Goldobin for Hansen
Baertschi for a 2nd
Motte for Vanek
Granlund for Shinkaruk
Pouliot for Archibald
Leivo for Carcone

Hansens gone, Goldobin in NHL
Baertschis 2nd became Rasmus Anderson - Good trade for both teams I'd say. Vancouver with the edge getting a 20+ goal scorer, too bad about injuries
Vanek never resigned with Jackets and didn't win squat. Mottes a great 4th liner.
Granlund for a bust
A 6/7 Dman for an AHLer
30-40 point forward for an AHLer

I picked the trades that had a young NHL player coming back our way. Benning came out like a bandit in all those trades.

How's he a bandit? We are still a bottomfeeder with all those mediocre players. 

[Sedintwinpowersactivate]

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

Eriksson is the only guy Benning has given term to. I see one to two years as the show me, bridge deals. Three to four years a typical deal. Five to six years the bottom end of long term. And anything over that as firmly in the long term that can possibly screw you down the road range. But considering we're well below the cap I don't see how it's money lost that could be spent elsewhere. It's pure hindsight it was a mistake. It's the kind of mistake that happens frequently in free agency. It's tough to predict when a players production will take a big downturn. And the way his contract is set up I see him as moveable in the final two years.

Calgary and James Neal 

Edmonton and Lucic

Free agents are always over payed

power forwards develop late and decline early.

Caution!

[wildcam]

READ A FEW THINGS ON POST.....START WITH  KESLER?????? THE GUY WANTED TO BE TRADE TO A CONTENDER AND GIVE CANUCKS 2 TEAM, PITTSBURGH AND DUCKS.... PITTSBURGH HAD CAP ISSUES...BENNING DID VERY GOOD ON THAT....

 

BENNING COME TO THIS TEAM THAT HAD NO PROSPECTS AS PREVIOUS GM'S TRADED THEM AWAY FOR LONG PLAYOFF RUNS..

 

JIM BENNING  GM  = B GRADE...

 

 Every GM makes some bad trades. The Guddy trade was a very good one at the time..We need toughness we got pushed around bad against Flames in the quick playoff series... Guddy just was not a good fit here and he was hurt the first 2 years...

 

Really really like the way Jim has stocked team with prospects very exciting now.. We are still 2-3 years away put exciting...

Players to be excited about .

THANKS JIM BENNING ON DEVELOPING::

Pettersson, Boser, Horvat, Leivo, Beartchi, Virtanen, Gaudette,  Motte - MacEwen -- LIND 2 YRS AWAY - GADJOVICH 2YRS AWAY.

 

 

HUTTON, STETCHER,  HUGHES, JUOLEVI,  WOO, BRIESBOIS, SAUTNER,    ( TRYAMKIN 6'7  THIS GUY SURE WOULD LOOK GOOD)

MARKSTROM NOW A TOP 15 GOALIE --- DEMKO --VERY BRIGHT FUTURE -- DIPIETRO ANOTHER GOOD PICK....

 

KEEP UP THE GOOD JOB MR. BENNING...

 

GO LOOK AT THE DEPTH OF THIS TEAM BEFORE BENNING TOOK OVER...

 

COMPARE DEPTH AND THATS HOW YOU  GRADE GM JOB.....

THIS TEAM NOW HAS EXCITING PLAYERS UNDER 24YRS OLD

Edited March 17, 2019 by wildcam

[ForsbergTheGreat]

 

8 hours ago, Baggins said:

Forsling split this past season between the AHL and NHL. At 22 he must be in the reject pile by now as Clendenning, Baertschi and Granlund were all rejects we acquired at 22. Vey and Etem were both 23. Meaning all acquired before your 24 year old expiry date. But the Forsling whining makes me laugh as much now as it did when he was traded. 

FIrst of all, Forsling hasn't split this past season between the AHL and NHL, he was injured at the start of the year with a wrist surgery that kept him out of the line of up for the first month and a half,  He then went to rockford on a 5 game conditioning stint to get him back into game shape and after those 5 games he's been in the NHL since. 

Second, Colliton absolutely loves forsling and thinks he's going to be a real impact player in the league,  He raves about his two way game and how smart he is.  Hawks D is a bit of Swiss cheese right now with them dressing 10 different D this year but it seems to be working for them lately.

[lmm]

20 hours ago, RetroCanuck said:

hmmmm I thought Lockwood was still in the system. No point reading past that.

 

Also why the hell is Brisebois and Palmu in the red.

 

This thread is pointless with little correct information

I guess you were never good at connect the dots

[5Fivehole0]

55 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

How's he a bandit? We are still a bottomfeeder with all those mediocre players. 

And where would we be with an unsigned Vanek, a retired Hansen, a retired Burrows, and all those AHLers?

Maybe slow the wit down a little bit, your fingers are moving faster than your brain.

Edited March 17, 2019 by 5Fivehole0

[5Fivehole0]

1 hour ago, The 5th Line said:

 Baertschi and Levio good the rest is just trash.  Maybe 1 has a long term stay in Vancouver, at best

3 full seasons out of Granlund who is defensively responsible for a MG Bust. Win
Motte is having a decent season. Vanek was an expiring vet who is known for doing nothing in the playoffs. Win

I dont even need to continue to re-explain how the Canucks won every single one of those trades. Just see my post above

[smokes]

His passive aggreassiveness can rub some people the wrong way.

[Me_]

21 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said:

1.) not saying to get ride of him entirely, just at the managerial level as he undoubtably has restocked the prospect cupboard for us which can’t be denied

 

2.) should retain some sort of position, preferably something like president or VP of hockey operations to overlook things and continue sharing his expertise when it comes to drafting/prospects

 

3.) so why should he step down / be replaced as GM? Let’s look:

 

 

That’s shocking. We have almost nothing of significance to show for over JB 5 year tenure.

 

 

 

...it’s no surprise we hired a newbie GM at the time. This critical transition phase the organization is in, we can’t be allowing this much trial&error with the scarce assets we have to work with in the first place. 

 

On top of the asset inefficiency, his inexperience as manager has been evident with the signings as well. Overpaying & giving extended years to questionable players, just unnecessary. All it’s done is become dead weight which can’t be moved and will anchor the roster in the years ahead.

 

That manager inexperience? To continue, he hasn’t been able to commit to a plan or vision since day1. A rebuild was clear as day but the R word was never uttered until Linden became president. Prior to that he dodged it like the plague and would never admit it. Thought he could fast track by trading picks in the beginning when those picks could’ve been paying dividends for us right now. Too much flip flopping between ideologies. Remember “meat & potatoes”? That died shortly but then he couldn’t fully let it go either as evident by drafting Virtanen coming off a major surgery...he just couldn’t help himself. Even now, we struck gold with EP. Rebuild was endorsed but now that we got lucky and EP has fast forwarded that timeline, he thinks we can fight for a playoff(WC) spot. The man can’t help himself and begins jumping the gun too easily, can’t stay focused on the mission. 

 

Just far too much indecisiveness and it’s fair to say we’ve seen enough. Let’s get a proven GM who can be relied on to stay the course, not get ahead of himself, and let the nature of the rebuild take place organically while JB overlooks the draft aspect. I think that would be best for all parties. Stack up on maximum assets, get a cap structure going, get rid of bad contracts in this vital transition phase when we will shortly but surely be on the rise. Hypothetically, targeting an Yzerman or someone along those lines as GM+President would be ideal. 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

EDIT

summed up:

 

> JB pro: drafting

> JB cons: everything else about GMing (trades, signings, vision, commitment) 

> get someone who is better than Jimbo at the cons 

> keep Jimbo for the pro(prospects), just in a different/special role AKA I’m not saying cut him loose entirely

This is an amazingly stupid post.

[TheRealistOptimist]

This is the problem...

 

some people will only give Benning praise if the players he acquires turn into impact players who will be around for 10+ years. 

 

If not then their all trash, even if what they traded away was worse and we got use out of the players.

 

My question for those saying we could have spent Louis Eriksson’s money on other better players. 

 

In particular which players could we have we have spent the money on? 

 

Keep in mind, the players would’ve had to agree to sign with us, as opposed to the playoff team they probably signed with. Also if your going to mention players from 2014-17, we had the Sedin’s, so if they weren’t going to play with them, then they would’ve been 2nd liners. 

 

It’s a nice premise to go off, saying we could’ve signed so much better guys had we not used the money on Eriksson, but it’s a lot harder when you actually try and fill that spot with these alleged impact players they could’ve had. 

 

Don’t get me wrong Eriksson is a bust, probably one of the biggest UFA busts of all time. It’s just not easy to add impact players.

Edited March 17, 2019 by TheRealistOptimist

[5Fivehole0]

2 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

 

 

Don’t get me wrong Eriksson is a bust, probably one of the biggest UFA busts of all time. It’s just not easy to add impact players.

Absolutely, but at the time of the signing everyone thought it was a slam dunk signing. This is by far Bennings worst move,