Popular Post Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said: Honestly made this topic for healthy discussion so people can come to realization of things. Appalled by how defensive and attached people were at the beginning of thread that they couldn’t even realize stuff which nearly the rest of league would agree on lol. And it’s not like I’m some random, I am a STH as well. Does it mean I can’t make constructive criticism? Hell no. People that think you have to nod your head are ones that enable bad trends to continue in organizations by not holding them accountable. I’m just stating a relatively fair resolution I’d be in favour of the team making for these (obvious) reasons. There’s literally no harm in doing this, at least not that I can think of atm Are you some kind of Jim Jones? You figured if you say something everybody will follow? Being a STH doesn't make you smarter than dirt. You're certainly free to criticize, but so is everybody else here. Which means there will be those that criticize your criticism. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Canuckster86 said: Homerism at an all time high defending JB. I said my piece in this thread, will leave it to the Rose coloured glasses people to make JB sound like a genius at the helm... this sight is for fans to give there opinions. for or against. homers and awayers. i’m for and will be as long benning is in control. no one is forgetting that he has made bad calls at times, but he is building a new team, and i for one am anxious to see the finished product. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Baggins said: Are you some kind of Jim Jones? You figured if you say something everybody will follow? Being a STH doesn't make you smarter than dirt. You're certainly free to criticize, but so is everybody else here. Which means there will be those that criticize your criticism. What’s an STH? “Silly Teen Hockeyfan”? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post luckylager Posted March 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: What’s an STH? “Silly Teen Hockeyfan”? $&!# talking hack? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: What’s an STH? “Silly Teen Hockeyfan”? Superficial thinker? What I want to know is who is Joey LaPizza and what makes him an authority on anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoasting Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said: 1.) not saying to get ride of him entirely, just at the managerial level as he undoubtably has restocked the prospect cupboard for us which can’t be denied 2.) should retain some sort of position, preferably something like president or VP of hockey operations to overlook things and continue sharing his expertise when it comes to drafting/prospects 3.) so why should he step down / be replaced as GM? Let’s look: On top of the asset inefficiency, his inexperience as manager has been evident with the signings as well. Overpaying & giving extended years to questionable players, just unnecessary. All it’s done is become dead weight which can’t be moved and will anchor the roster in the years ahead. That manager inexperience? To continue, he hasn’t been able to commit to a plan or vision since day1. A rebuild was clear as day but the R word was never uttered until Linden became president. Prior to that he dodged it like the plague and would never admit it. Thought he could fast track by trading picks in the beginning when those picks could’ve been paying dividends for us right now. Too much flip flopping between ideologies. Remember “meat & potatoes”? That died shortly but then he couldn’t fully let it go either as evident by drafting Virtanen coming off a major surgery...he just couldn’t help himself. Even now, we struck gold with EP. Rebuild was endorsed but now that we got lucky and EP has fast forwarded that timeline, he thinks we can fight for a playoff(WC) spot. The man can’t help himself and begins jumping the gun too easily, can’t stay focused on the mission. Just the highlighted part tells everyone that you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you just start watching hockey? Linden hired Benning! Until a year ago everything went through Linden before it happened. Maybe you should be blaming Trevor... P.S. opening a twitter account does not make you more credible either. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Superficial thinker? What I want to know is who is Joey LaPizza and what makes him an authority on anything? Well, he does have two followers on twitter. He obviously has to be an expert. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckylager Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Crabcakes said: Superficial thinker? What I want to know is who is Joey LaPizza and what makes him an authority on anything? He figured out how to colour code one side of a spreadsheet. My favorite part - the side he didn't bother to colour code should all just be dog $&!# brown. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Westcoasting said: Just the highlighted part tells everyone that you have no clue what you are talking about. Did you just start watching hockey? Linden hired Benning! Until a year ago everything went through Linden before it happened. Maybe you should be blaming Trevor... P.S. opening a twitter account does not make you more credible either. Could the poster mean our owner, instead of Trevor? I think our owner fired Gillis, when Gillis said we needed to rebuild. Then our owner hired a President and GM who would follow his direction to retool around the old core. In 2017 our owner realized we needed to actually rebuild properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2019 @Generational.EP40 Speaking of delusional...it’s delusional to think that Benning who was hired as a GM would accept basically being “fired” from his current role because he wasn’t good enough at it. Regardless of the role you are trying to create for him to stay, you are still taking away some of his power and abilities to build the team the way he sees fit, so it’s definitely not a promotion. Also @JamesB you stated you wanted to hire Judd Brackett as GM because he’s basically the real mastermind when it comes to the Canucks drafting. Well, why would you take Judd Brackett away from what he has had so much success doing...drafting? He also has no experience or successful track record as a GM. It always confuses me, when people wanted to assign credit and blame to our management over the last 4-5 years. It was like anything good for a while was not due to Benning it was due to Linden, but then anything bad didn’t stick to Linden, it fell back onto Benning. All the bad draft picks that’s Benning, all the positive stuff about drafting, while really how much credit can we give Benning, it’s actually all Judd Brackett. Some people will do whatever to criticize the guy. People are so backwards sometimes, we’re in a “rebuild” and we want draft picks (which take time to develop), but, we’re going to complain about where we finish in the standings. It’s all about patience and adding top end talent through the draft. Unless you get lucky in the right year and get to draft a generational talent, it’s going to take time. I hate going back to this but Gillis only had to add pieces around an already really good core. He was in a much easier position to sign UFA’s and his own players to discounts because they were a Cup contending team. This is why I find Gillis and Gilman’s amazing contract signings very much overrated. Perhaps one one of the best examples to really drive home how easy it is to sign bargain deals for Contenders is from another sport: In the NBA David West turned down $11-12 million per year from the Pacers to sign with a contending Spurs team for only $1.5 million per year. This is one example that stood out in recent memory, there are countless others from all sports. Bad teams don’t become great teams through FA in pretty much any sport. They become great by drafting well, developing a core group of good players and then supplementing that talent through trades and FA.(There may be a couple outliers, but it’s not the norm) IMO it’s too early to judge Benning on contracts. It’s also really hard to trade for the elite pieces you need to build a consistent Cup contending team, especially when you have minimal assests to trade. And the assets you do have are greatly limited because they almost all have NTCs or are legacy players. Even the players who did waive their NTCs still did limit the Canucks options in the trade market. Trades are also hard to judge because, everyone wants to base them on whether the player we got turned into a dynamic impact player. Granlund is a perfect example of someone who is a clear Win in the trade column, yet because he hasn’t looked great, people want to act like he hasn’t given us 3 years of relatively good service. Anyways a lot of the Benning hate comes from the thought that he is not rebuilding the way we want him too (trade anything of value for draft picks). Yet these same people want to crucify and fire him for not having a winning team right now (ie. the stat about over the last 4 years we have the worst winning percentage in the league). It’s a little maddening to read some of these comment cause the bar is constantly moving and it seems that, for so many, their minds are already made up. 1 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, TheRealistOptimist said: @Generational.EP40 Speaking of delusional...it’s delusional to think that Benning who was hired as a GM would accept basically being “fired” from his current role because he wasn’t good enough at it. Regardless of the role you are trying to create for him to stay, you are still taking away some of his power and abilities to build the team the way he sees fit, so it’s definitely not a promotion. Also @JamesB you stated you wanted to hire Judd Brackett as GM because he’s basically the real mastermind when it comes to the Canucks drafting. Well, why would you take Judd Brackett away from what he has had so much success doing...drafting? He also has no experience or successful track record as a GM. It always confuses me, when people wanted to assign credit and blame to our management over the last 4-5 years. It was like anything good for a while was not due to Benning it was due to Linden, but then anything bad didn’t stick to Linden, it fell back onto Benning. All the bad draft picks that’s Benning, all the positive stuff about drafting, while really how much credit can we give Benning, it’s actually all Judd Brackett. Some people will do whatever to criticize the guy. People are so backwards sometimes, we’re in a “rebuild” and we want draft picks (which take time to develop), but, we’re going to complain about where we finish in the standings. It’s all about patience and adding top end talent through the draft. Unless you get lucky in the right year and get to draft a generational talent, it’s going to take time. I hate going back to this but Gillis only had to add pieces around an already really good core. He was in a much easier position to sign UFA’s and his own players to discounts because they were a Cup contending team. This is why I find Gillis and Gilman’s amazing contract signings very much overrated. Perhaps one one of the best examples to really drive home how easy it is to sign bargain deals for Contenders is from another sport: In the NBA David West turned down $11-12 million per year from the Pacers to sign with a contending Spurs team for only $1.5 million per year. This is one example that stood out in recent memory, there are countless others from all sports. Bad teams don’t become great teams through FA in pretty much any sport. They become great by drafting well, developing a core group of good players and then supplementing that talent through trades and FA.(There may be a couple outliers, but it’s not the norm) IMO it’s too early to judge Benning on contracts. It’s also really hard to trade for the elite pieces you need to build a consistent Cup contending team, especially when you have minimal assests to trade. And the assets you do have are greatly limited because they almost all have NTCs or are legacy players. Even the players who did waive their NTCs still did limit the Canucks options in the trade market. Trades are also hard to judge because, everyone wants to base them on whether the player we got turned into a dynamic impact player. Granlund is a perfect example of someone who is a clear Win in the trade column, yet because he hasn’t looked great, people want to act like he hasn’t given us 3 years of relatively good service. Anyways a lot of the Benning hate comes from the thought that he is not rebuilding the way we want him too (trade anything of value for draft picks). Yet these same people want to crucify and fire him for not having a winning team right now (ie. the stat about over the last 4 years we have the worst winning percentage in the league). It’s a little maddening to read some of these comment cause the bar is constantly moving and it seems that, for so many, their minds are already made up. I think the net sayers are not happy with the way JB tried to keep the team competitive by signing expensive UFAs and trading away draft picks for older guys, and we finished at the bottom anyway. Why not just accept we needed to rebuild properly in 2015? again I think it was our owner and not JB pushing the retool idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Fivehole0 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) Your projections suck. Tanner Pearson is an NHLer by all accounts. Snake bitten maybe, but he's great in his own end, and is good for 40 points not playing in LA. Love how you don't count Dorsett who was great for this team, and was it not the pick for Garrison that landed him? Garrison who did nothing in Tampa, really. Edited March 17, 2019 by 5Fivehole0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cup2022 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 51 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think the net sayers are not happy with the way JB tried to keep the team competitive by signing expensive UFAs and trading away draft picks for older guys, and we finished at the bottom anyway. Why not just accept we needed to rebuild properly in 2015? again I think it was our owner and not JB pushing the retool idea. He didn't trade draft picks for older guys he traded them for younger guys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsMillerTime Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Generational.EP40 said: What does that have to do with anything? Delusional. Again like others, read what’s being said. Not the smartest guy eh? Benning drafted Pettersson and obviously you like Pettersson. Without Benning Pettersson isn't a Canuck. honestly stop replying to people you make yourself look dumber and dumber. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think the net sayers are not happy with the way JB tried to keep the team competitive by signing expensive UFAs and trading away draft picks for older guys, and we finished at the bottom anyway. Why not just accept we needed to rebuild properly in 2015? again I think it was our owner and not JB pushing the retool idea. How many draft picks actually went for "older" guys? I suspect you and I have a difference of opinion on what "older" is. Really a "proper rebuild" is a matter of opinion as well and requires looking at the current team make up. For example: TO did a "proper rebuild" adding picks, yet the only picks needed to turn their team around were their top pick from each of three draft years. Would that have been enough to completely turn our team around? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cup2022 said: He didn't trade draft picks for older guys he traded them for younger guys What younger guys? The guys were all older. Vey, Baer, Dorset, Sutter, Guddy etc were all older guys who were pretty much already what they were going to be. I’d rather have the picks. With top picks there is always a chance we get an elite player 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, Baggins said: How many draft picks actually went for "older" guys? I suspect you and I have a difference of opinion on what "older" is. Really a "proper rebuild" is a matter of opinion as well and requires looking at the current team make up. For example: TO did a "proper rebuild" adding picks, yet the only picks needed to turn their team around were their top pick from each of three draft years. Would that have been enough to completely turn our team around? I think a rebuild will only be as good as the elite players drafted during the rebuild phase. Yes the first round picks are far more likely to be top end guys, but finding top guys in rounds after the first is huge too. The more picks in rounds two and three the more likely we get a couple top guys from those rounds which gives us more depth to trade from to fill holes during the refining stage of the rebuild. If madden and Gaudette work out we could trade Bo to fill a hole elsewhere for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomatoes11 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 His asset management has been piss poor. I don’t know how anyone can defend it really. It doesn’t take 5 years to clean house no matter how handcuffed you are. If he wasnt given any resources I could understand, but FA has given him plenty of $$$$ to work with. And there were plenty of assets he could have moved but instead chose to hang on to them until they depreciated completely. Tanev is going to be the next example of an asset pissed away because he is somehow “needed” to insulate the kids on the back end. Insulate them to another bottom 6 or 7th last finish. Lol By the time we finally trade sutter and another one of his mistakes, Baertschi, they will be worth nothing too. He has a misguided timeline like his fans do. We are at least 4 years away so Sutter, Tanev, and some others are completely unnecessary. Not to mention the other useless stuff we gave up assets for like Dorsett. And when he finally does move people, he moves someone with potential to contribute in 4 years instead in Dahlen. Hopefully Karlsson turns out and Goldolbin becomes a force or he will have absolutely nothing from his non draft pick moves. Even out of his draft picks it’s just Boeser and EP technically in his 5 years of drafting super high. The jury is still out on the rest of the prospects he drafted although Gaudette is almost graduated, but that would just make a grand total of 3 in 5 years. He really missed out on Tkachuk even more so than his Nylander and Ehlers miss. Benning is at best extremely overrated here but at worse the worst GM in the league. I tend to side with the latter myself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealistOptimist Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Alflives said: I think a rebuild will only be as good as the elite players drafted during the rebuild phase. Yes the first round picks are far more likely to be top end guys, but finding top guys in rounds after the first is huge too. The more picks in rounds two and three the more likely we get a couple top guys from those rounds which gives us more depth to trade from to fill holes during the refining stage of the rebuild. If madden and Gaudette work out we could trade Bo to fill a hole elsewhere for example. Generally speaking, I agree with your premise. The more you look into the draft though the more of a crap shoot it seems to be, especially outside of the top half of the 1st round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generational.EP40 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, ItsMillerTime said: Not the smartest guy eh? Benning drafted Pettersson and obviously you like Pettersson. Without Benning Pettersson isn't a Canuck. honestly stop replying to people you make yourself look dumber and dumber. Again, reread what I said. What does anything I said have to do with Benning drafted Pettersson? You’re not the brightest I take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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