[Discussion] Movin’ on Up... to #4

[6string]

                                                                                                          

[Mathew Barzal]

57 minutes ago, Fateless said:

Based on what? Have you actually spent any significant time following Byram this year? What he has been doing has been phenomenal. Quite frankly, I believe he is the 3rd best player in the draft, but his upside has the ability to make him the best in the draft if he actually translates his skillset into the NHL completely. Byram is a huge catch and has upside of being a true #1 defenseman if he reaches his potential. 

  

Soderstrom plays an Olli Juolevi type game and I expect Soderstrom to tack a similar path to the NHL where he eventually plays as a 4/5. 

 

I completely acknowledge that my opinion holds no real weight, but its disingenuous to say that the two players are almost the same. They're not. Byram has proven that he is a cut above every other defender in this draft. Perhaps one of his best traits is that he Mr. Clutch. Byram shows up when it matters most and competes on a nightly basis. Sure, that could change over time, but I'd be willing to trade up for Byram for the right price.

Poor wording. Not negligible, but not worth giving up assets like Demko + for.

 

I think Soderstrom is a much more dynamic player than Juolevi in terms of physicality and skating. Admittedly, I've only been to two giants games this season. The rest of my viewings of Byram are through Burgundy Rainbow's 'Shift by Shift's. Soderstrom is purely through the shift by shifts and WJC.

 

I am extremely high on Soderstrom and potentially wearing blinders at the moment, but the potential is there for him to match Byram with proper development imo. Again, these are prospects and no one can properly predict prospect development trajectory.

 

Of course if both fell to us I would take Byram, no question given their current status.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, TheRealistOptimist said:

I don’t want to trade Demko, I’d much rather trade Dipietro. 

 

For what your offer was, I would much rather just stay put and draft at #10 without giving up any players.

 

May as well keep Dipietro as you’re not going to get much by way of a trade for him. (when his pro resume consists of one game so far).  Schneider was only able to get us the 9th overall pick.

[Bo53]

I would rather give them Markstrom.  Possibly a higher value for a playoff team that is in a win now mode, and with Seattle coming up, we would likely lose Markstrom anyway.  At any rate we would also probably need to cough up the second rounder as well. 

 

Just a thought

[Fateless]

1 hour ago, Mathew Barzal said:

Poor wording. Not negligible, but not worth giving up assets like Demko + for.

 

I think Soderstrom is a much more dynamic player than Juolevi in terms of physicality and skating. Admittedly, I've only been to two giants games this season. The rest of my viewings of Byram are through Burgundy Rainbow's 'Shift by Shift's. Soderstrom is purely through the shift by shifts and WJC.

 

I am extremely high on Soderstrom and potentially wearing blinders at the moment, but the potential is there for him to match Byram with proper development imo. Again, these are prospects and no one can properly predict prospect development trajectory.

 

Of course if both fell to us I would take Byram, no question given their current status.

Okay, we're on the same page then. I agree that I wouldn't give up the 10th OA pick, Demko, and another asset for Byram. I agree with the rest of your analysis, although I'm not all that high on Soderstrom. I just think there are better options for us.

[Ghostsof1915]

Vancouver Giants have won the 2nd round, in a sweep against the Victoria Royals. 

 

Byram has been dominant all year. And yes, clutch is what he's all about. 

Had the team picked 3rd, I'd be all over drafting him. 

I'm just hoping Broberg slips to 10th. 

 

[wildcam]

Stay on rebuild and please don't trade Demko and other prospects to move up ...

Look at last 2 drafts Pettersson and Hughes...

Have to say Pettersson looks like best player so far in his daft year..I know its still early...

Hughes for sure should of gone higher also...

Some teams will go off the board like Montreal and Arizona did last year....This can happen again this year?

Lets not trade away young talent like Demko so we can move up 5 spots...Demko will be a #1 goalie for a long time..His trade value will also go up.

We need to be patient, Jim and group will draft  well again this year..

Go Canucks Go !

 

[TheRealistOptimist]

4 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

May as well keep Dipietro as you’re not going to get much by way of a trade for him. (when his pro resume consists of one game so far).  Schneider was only able to get us the 9th overall pick.

I don’t want to trade either of Demko or Dipietro.

 

I was just saying if I was going to trade one, I would be more willing to trade Dipietro.

 

I also wasn’t saying just swap out Demko for Dipietro and then make the OP’s trade. IMO, I wouldn’t make that trade.  

[Hindustan Smyl]

16 hours ago, Provost said:

Moving into the top 3 is a pipe dream, but maybe a big splash in our home draft could be moving up to #4 and getting local boy Byram.

 

It would take an overpayment, but to get a guy that is possibly ready to step into the NHL this year, maybe it would be worth it.  Anyone we pick at #10 is probably 2-3 years away easily. 

 

Some ideas of what it could take:

 

#10

Demko

Hutton or Virtanen (or both)

 

for

#4

Varlamov

 

Colorado moves on to the younger Grubauer as their starter with an excellent and cheaper prospect as a back up.  They get two solid young pieces for the bottom half of their roster.

 

It would take a lot to make the move, but we have no other way to get great young D into the system.

 

 

Why would the Avs trade Semen Varmalov and the 4th overall for such an underwhelming package?

[Provost]

1 hour ago, Hindustan Smyl said:

Why would the Avs trade Semen Varmalov and the 4th overall for such an underwhelming package?

Well because Varlamov is on an expiring contract and you are just trading for a negotiating window with him?

 

They have planned on moving on from him for a while and got Grubauer to be their next goalie.  Having a young (and much cheaper) duo by acquiring Demko could be quite appealing to them.

[Hindustan Smyl]

17 minutes ago, Provost said:

Well because Varlamov is on an expiring contract and you are just trading for a negotiating window with him?

 

They have planned on moving on from him for a while and got Grubauer to be their next goalie.  Having a young (and much cheaper) duo by acquiring Demko could be quite appealing to them.

Good point about Semen.

 

Still - I don’t think the Avs would be willing to part ways with that 4th overall.   I’d hold on to Demko for now as well.  Markstrom had a solid year, but that could have been a one-off for all we know.  Jose Theodore had one terrific season back in the day, and was pretty much Caitlyn Jenner after that.

[mll]

17 hours ago, Provost said:

Moving into the top 3 is a pipe dream, but maybe a big splash in our home draft could be moving up to #4 and getting local boy Byram.

 

It would take an overpayment, but to get a guy that is possibly ready to step into the NHL this year, maybe it would be worth it.  Anyone we pick at #10 is probably 2-3 years away easily. 

 

Some ideas of what it could take:

 

#10

Demko

Hutton or Virtanen (or both)

 

for

#4

Varlamov

 

Colorado moves on to the younger Grubauer as their starter with an excellent and cheaper prospect as a back up.  They get two solid young pieces for the bottom half of their roster.

 

It would take a lot to make the move, but we have no other way to get great young D into the system.

 

 

 

Varlamov is a UFA.   

 

They have an excess of Ds going into next season.  It's more likely them trading a D than adding one.  They expect to be adding Makar and Timmins.

Girard, Johnson, Barrie, Cole, Barberio + Makar, Timmins

Zadorov and Graves are RFAs

Nemeth is a UFA

 

Sakic at the deadline talked about how they are still rebuilding.  He also says he needs players on ELCs in a cap world.  He excluded trading his 1st round picks saying it would set their rebuild back.  

[Provost]

19 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Varlamov is a UFA.   

 

They have an excess of Ds going into next season.  It's more likely them trading a D than adding one.  They expect to be adding Makar and Timmins.

Girard, Johnson, Barrie, Cole, Barberio + Makar, Timmins

Zadorov and Graves are RFAs

Nemeth is a UFA

 

Sakic at the deadline talked about how they are still rebuilding.  He also says he needs players on ELCs in a cap world.  He excluded trading his 1st round picks saying it would set their rebuild back.  

- Varlamov isn’t a UFA, he is a pending UFA.  As discussed in the thread, you would be trading for an exclusive negotiating window

- Sakic talked about not trading away a 1st round pick for a short term deadline deal.  He didn’t exclude trading trading away their 1st round picks ever, he was responding to a question about the price if rentals at the deadline.  This also isn’t trading away a 1st round pick, it is swapping one.

 

[mll]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

- Varlamov isn’t a UFA, he is a pending UFA.  As discussed in the thread, you would be trading for an exclusive negotiating window

- Sakic talked about not trading away a 1st round pick for a short term deadline deal.  He didn’t exclude trading trading away their 1st round picks ever, he was responding to a question about the price if rentals at the deadline.  This also isn’t trading away a 1st round pick, it is swapping one.

 

 

I don't understand the Varlamov part of your proposal.  You think the Canucks would want to sign him ?  

 

“Absolutely not. No.” Sakic said of his team’s two first-rounders being in play for a trade. “We’re looking at the big picture here. We love what’s coming. What’s going on here. It’s a process and we’re not going to deviate from that climb. If there’s a player that can help us that isn’t going to include one of those (draft picks) or our top prospects, then, we’ll look at it.”

 

[Provost]

33 minutes ago, mll said:

 

I don't understand the Varlamov part of your proposal.  You think the Canucks would want to sign him ?  

 

“Absolutely not. No.” Sakic said of his team’s two first-rounders being in play for a trade. “We’re looking at the big picture here. We love what’s coming. What’s going on here. It’s a process and we’re not going to deviate from that climb. If there’s a player that can help us that isn’t going to include one of those (draft picks) or our top prospects, then, we’ll look at it.”

 

Yes because we could look at signing Varlamov.  He is a fine bridge for 2-3 years until DiPietro is close to ready for the NHL.  You can sign him to a high cap hit, shorter term deal with money we need to keep aside for Petterson, Hughes extensions anyways.

 

If you trade Demko, you need another goalie.  A guy that lets Markstrom only play 50 games a year is ideal, and can also start for long stretches in case of injury.

 

You are quoting the Sakic statement out of context.  He was asked about adding pieces at the deadline and he said the prices were too high... then said the rest of what you quoted.  There is a vast difference between not traditnaway a 1st round pick for a rental to help you make the playoffs... and swapping (not trading away) a 1st round pick to accumulate other young players under club control for years to come.

[D-Money]

19 hours ago, laddie said:

I don’t understand the thought process in trading away a 23 year old highly touted goaltending prospect in Demko?  In one breath we want more prospects but when they start to show value we want to trade them away for an unknown.  When we are ready to compete for a Stanley Cup we will want a great goalie so any prospective trade shouldn’t include our future starter.

We have to consider trading Demko (or Markstrom) at some point because of the expansion draft.

 

If we extend Markstrom, it will be a long-term deal, and we will lose one of them at the draft. He will likely get trade protection, so Demko will have to be moved then. And the closer we get to the draft, the value of ED-eligible goaltenders (who are not confirmed franchise guys) will go down.

 

And really, in the meantime, barring a severe injury to Markstrom, having Demko on the team doesn't improve us that much. He's going to play what...25-30 games? We can easily find a stop-gap to back up Markstrom until DiPietro is ready.

[D-Money]

I don't see the need to add Varlamov. He will likely test free agency, in a place where he has at least a shot of being the starter. And he will probably shoot for more than 2 years, in which case his salary could be a problem.

 

The deal I proposed elsewhere is:

To Chicago: Demko + #10

To Vancouver: Delia + #3

 

Chicago doesn't need Byram (they have one of the best crop of D prospects in the league). What they need more than anything is a young goalie with true starter's potential, who can be ready for a large workload as soon as next year in case Crawford's health is a problem again. Demko fits that bill.

 

Delia is a nice young back-up, who is locked up for cheap for 3 more years. He doesn't have the high-end potential of Demko, but should at least hold the fort until DiPietro is ready.

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, D-Money said:

We have to consider trading Demko (or Markstrom) at some point because of the expansion draft.

 

If we extend Markstrom, it will be a long-term deal, and we will lose one of them at the draft. He will likely get trade protection, so Demko will have to be moved then. And the closer we get to the draft, the value of ED-eligible goaltenders (who are not confirmed franchise guys) will go down.

 

And really, in the meantime, barring a severe injury to Markstrom, having Demko on the team doesn't improve us that much. He's going to play what...25-30 games? We can easily find a stop-gap to back up Markstrom until DiPietro is ready.

Pretty much, I doubt Markstrom gets a NMC... so it would be a choice to protect either him or Demko.

 

We have been the worst team in the league over the last three seasons.  I am not sure how folks think we will make any improvement without taking some big risks and making material changes to our roster.  People don’t want to give up anyone who even has a remote change of having upside, but want top level players back.

 

How awful would we be next year if Petterson had the common sophomore slump, Edler didn’t have another career year, and Horvat got hurt for a big stretch?  People are assuming a linear developmental improvement each year until we are contenders in 2-3 years and that is just not likely.

 

If we could get any value for Demko you do it.  In this scenario our goaltending even gets better in the short term.  Once Expansion hits, there will be teams with two very good goalies who will happily trade away one for a big discount rather than losing them for free.  We could pick one up if DiPietro isn’t ready or Markstrom slips... we net out ahead in the short term and long term.

[Smashian Kassian]

I really like the idea of moving up to get Byram but I am a little hesitant moving Juolevi.

 

Giving up a good top 4 D prospect + the player we can get at 10 for a better top 4 d prospect.. is that worth it for a rebuilding team?

 

Juolevi's value is low right now, if he plays in the NHL next season his value will be much better.

[Provost]

14 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I really like the idea of moving up to get Byram but I am a little hesitant moving Juolevi.

 

Giving up a good top 4 D prospect + the player we can get at 10 for a better top 4 d prospect.. is that worth it for a rebuilding team?

 

Juolevi's value is low right now, if he plays in the NHL next season his value will be much better.

Did someone in the thread suggest moving Juolevi?  I must have missed it.