[Rumour] Canucks inquired about Sabres defenceman

[SabreFan1]

2 hours ago, Dannydog said:

I've been waiting to see your thoughts on Rist'o and buffalo's defense from page 1 of this thread. Alot of posters throw up thoughts and opinions mimik'd  without  watching a single Sabres game.

Quote

Do we have the defensive players that could elevate Ristos game from his pairings in buffalo?

I'm not sure what would elevate Risto's game at this point in his career.  Any team that trades for him would use him as a top pairing d-man so you couldn't reduce his minutes much to see if that would help.  His defensive play is below average, but unless Tanev has recently become ambidextrous and is moved over, you couldn't pair them on the same line.  That would leave Edler as the only guy left with enough of a reputation to help Risto with his 2-way game and Edler is already heading out the door away from Vancouver. 

 

So basically the answer is no...

 

Quote

Your thoughts on Bogo in the same light?

Bogo never lived up to his promise, but is a good locker-room player and leader.  Not sure what he would bring to the Canucks besides some more physicality.  Not to mention he is injury prone because of his style of play.

 

Quote

Anyone maybe benning could possibly targeting other than those 2?

No.  Montour isn't going anywhere and Scandella is trending down.

[Warhippy]

20 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said:

The 10th overall is a big loss and the 2nd is another loss.  Look at what JB has managed to do with 1st and 2nd round picks.

 

Agree to disagree. No way in hell I do the trade you proposed.

The 1st overall pick is not cheap.

 

I'm also not sold on Boeser being healthy consistently as of yet.  The 2nd would hurt but

 

1st overall.

[SabreFan1]

35 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Well it would help to get more wins by not trading to a team in your division eg Tampa and having the deal backfire.

Barring sudden out of character 10-game win streaks, Tampa will beat the Sabres with or without Ristolainen, but I get your point.  However my point still stands, Botterill and the Sabres need to boost the team now and if that means trading him to a rival who offers the best package then that's what they should do.  The only team that the Sabres have any right to worry about right now is themselves.

 

Could a Risto trade bite the Sabres in the butt?  Sure.  If you ask me though, he could also become a poison pill to whomever buys him.

Edited June 19, 2019 by SabreFan1

[-Moose]

5 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said:

Just the fact that he's rarely injured is intriguing enough for me at this point 

I'm sure that'll change if he ends up on the Canucks blueline 

[-Moose]

6 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Both. 

 

Risto shoots towards the net and prays that it ends up on target or at least close enough for someone to redirect it in.  The one thing coaches love about him is that he's a workhorse who eats minutes up like nothing.  That and he's rarely injured.

 

Think of Risto like a slightly better Tyler Myers with better stamina and fewer injuries.  He's the reason why the Sabres traded Myers to the Jets in the first place.

 

Just don't look at Risto's advanced career analytics if the Canucks land him.  You'll cry.

Perfect, he'll fit right in 

[ButterBean]

7 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I wouldnt wanna trade Markstrom right now. Would totally nullify improving the D & put us no further ahead. Still time to figure out the ED.

 

Maybe Tanev works in a swap, who knows. And do we want to give up picks? It would be easier to stomach if we had extra ones.

 

 

 

Markstrom is one of our few assets right now. We don’t have young guys or draft picks that are expendable and most of the guys we have to trade are old and/or injury-prone. Time to sell high on Marky before his value goes down.

[TNucks1]

9 hours ago, nergish said:

Boeser + Markstrom + Juolevi + 10th OA for Rasmus Dahlin

 

 

think you might have to add BO and Petey too that too.

[elvis15]

10 hours ago, apollo said:

Bogosian is Gudbranson 2.0.... 

 

Hopefully it's risto we are inquiring about 

Not even, he's Guddy 0.1. If Bogo came up in the conversation, then it had better be to get a bunch of other assets for very little of ours in return.

 

I agree that I'd go after Risto for a reasonable price. I'm not looking to give up a lot though, particularly not the 10th overall in our own barn.

[CanuckGAME]

3 hours ago, Me_ said:

I can. Package it to get the 1OA19.

 

VAN

1OA19

 

NJD

10OA19

Demko

 

if Boeser doesn’t want to sign...

 

VAN

1OA19

 

NJD

Boeser

 

 

Who's mans is this?

[bloodycanuckleheads]

10 hours ago, kenhodgejr said:

I would like to see Ristolainen and Juolevi paired together. 

Why would you want to win the trophy for worst plus-minus in NHL history?

[RakuRaku]

I would totally trade our 10th pick + Juolevi + Baertschi for Ristolainen.

 

To those that are adament that we must make our pick because we are the host city....  well, it's not like we got a top 5 pick in the first round. Secondly, you always grab an established NHLer that can help us NOW over an unknown pick! Risto got size, RH shot and pure offensively gifted... he'll do list fine when paired with a defensively minded LH d-man.

 

I bet you this trade announced by Bettman will generate a much bigger roar from the home crowd than whoever we are gonna pick!

Edited June 19, 2019 by Virtanen#18

[oldnews]

2 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

I'm not sure what would elevate Risto's game at this point in his career.  Any team that trades for him would use him as a top pairing d-man so you couldn't reduce his minutes much to see if that would help.  His defensive play is below average, but unless Tanev has recently become ambidextrous and is moved over, you couldn't pair them on the same line.  That would leave Edler as the only guy left with enough of a reputation to help Risto with his 2-way game and Edler is already heading out the door away from Vancouver. 

 

So basically the answer is no...

 

Bogo never lived up to his promise, but is a good locker-room player and leader.  Not sure what he would bring to the Canucks besides some more physicality.  Not to mention he is injury prone because of his style of play.

 

No.  Montour isn't going anywhere and Scandella is trending down.

You didn't answer the question - at all.

 

The poster asked you if you have the players/partner to elevate Ristolainen's game in Buffalo.

 

What you didn't answer - or perhaps don't realize/didn't think about - was who he played with in Buffalo - and were they complementary partners for him?

 

Ristolainen's principal partner was Jake McCabe (33.8% of his ice time with McCabe)

Next most frequent partner was Scandella (19.8%) - the guy you just named as "trending down".

Third was Dahlin (16.8%).

 

First, you're making an assumption about Edler that is based on relatively weak speculation - it's unknown whether he's 'heading out the door' or not.

 

But more importantly - at least where the question was concerned, is whether McCabe or Scandella are the kind of partners that complement and support Ristolainen, or would life be signficantly easier if he were playing with, for example, an Edler - or on the other hand, a talented offensive defenseman as opposed to a couple guys that are nowhere near his equal.

 

Anyhow - people continue to attach way too much significance to anecdotes - and out of context plus/minus statistics, which tell you next to nothing, particularly in the type of circumstances Ristolainen played in Buffalo.  Not very good partners, and perhaps even a worse forward group (defensively) in front of him = not insignificant, and when you have a 24 yr old alongside McCabe with the lowest ozone starts on a blueline....what you have is not a very well built team, at least not at this stage.   For example, Buffalo's '3rd' line center is a 20 year old that can't win 40% of his faceoffs, got 72.5% ozone starts, with a corsi of 48.9% = not really ready for the NHL.... People should be expecting a green jacket, not assigning a misleading amount of significance to it.

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by oldnews

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, oldnews said:

You didn't answer the question - at all.

 

The poster asked you if you have the players/partner to elevate Ristolainen's game in Buffalo.

 

What you didn't answer - or perhaps don't realize/didn't think about - was who he played with in Buffalo - and were they complementary partners for him?

 

Ristolainen's principal partner was Jake McCabe (33.8% of his ice time with McCabe)

Next most frequent partner was Scandella (19.8%) - the guy you just named as "trending down".

Third was Dahlin (16.8%).

 

First, you're making an assumption about Edler that is based on relatively weak speculation - it's unknown whether he's 'heading out the door' or not.

 

But more importantly - at least where the question was concerned, is whether McCabe or Scandella are the kind of partners that complement and support Ristolainen, or would life be signficantly easier if he were playing with, for example, an Edler - or on the other hand, a talented offensive defenseman as opposed to a couple guys that are nowhere near his equal.

 

Anyhow - people continue to attach way too much significance to anecdotes - and out of context plus/minus statistics, which tell you next to nothing, particularly in the type of circumstances Ristolainen played in Buffalo.  Not very good partners, and perhaps even a worse forward group (defensively) in front of him = not insignificant, and when you have a 24 yr old alongside McCabe with the lowest ozone starts on a blueline....people should be expecting a green jacket, not assigning a misleading amount of significance to it.

 

I apparently misunderstood what he was asking.  I thought he was asking if Ristolainen could successfully pair with someone in Vancouver.  That's what my answer was geared towards.

 

If Edler stays (which from what I've read sounds unlikely) he'd be the guy to pair with Risto.

 

Since you enjoy and understand advanced statistics, I'll give you a link to an article that a Tampa Bay writer wrote concerning Ristolainen.  hint: They aren't fans of him either...

 

https://www.rawcharge.com/2019/5/30/18645356/should-the-tampa-bay-lightning-be-interested-in-rasmus-ristolainen-buffalo-sabres-nhl-trade-rumors

 

 

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You didn't answer the question - at all.

 

The poster asked you if you have the players/partner to elevate Ristolainen's game in Buffalo.

 

What you didn't answer - or perhaps don't realize/didn't think about - was who he played with in Buffalo - and were they complementary partners for him?

 

Ristolainen's principal partner was Jake McCabe (33.8% of his ice time with McCabe)

Next most frequent partner was Scandella (19.8%) - the guy you just named as "trending down".

Third was Dahlin (16.8%).

 

First, you're making an assumption about Edler that is based on relatively weak speculation - it's unknown whether he's 'heading out the door' or not.

 

But more importantly - at least where the question was concerned, is whether McCabe or Scandella are the kind of partners that complement and support Ristolainen, or would life be signficantly easier if he were playing with, for example, an Edler - or on the other hand, a talented offensive defenseman as opposed to a couple guys that are nowhere near his equal.

 

Anyhow - people continue to attach way too much significance to anecdotes - and out of context plus/minus statistics, which tell you next to nothing, particularly in the type of circumstances Ristolainen played in Buffalo.  Not very good partners, and perhaps even a worse forward group (defensively) in front of him = not insignificant, and when you have a 24 yr old alongside McCabe with the lowest ozone starts on a blueline....people should be expecting a green jacket, not assigning a misleading amount of significance to it.

 

Don't forget the porous goaltending.

[aGENT]

7 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

I apparently misunderstood what he was asking.  I thought he was asking if Ristolainen could successfully pair with someone in Vancouver.  That's what my answer was geared towards.

 

If Edler stays (which from what I've read sounds unlikely) he'd be the guy to pair with Risto.

 

Since you enjoy and understand advanced statistics, I'll give you a link to an article that a Tampa Bay writer wrote concerning Ristolainen.  hint: They aren't fans of him either...

 

https://www.rawcharge.com/2019/5/30/18645356/should-the-tampa-bay-lightning-be-interested-in-rasmus-ristolainen-buffalo-sabres-nhl-trade-rumors

 

 

Sounds like Tampa sure could use a 50% off sale on Tanev. We'll even throw in a Callahan cap dump if they sweeten the pot enough 

[mll]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

For the 1st overall?

 

Try

 

Boeser

Tanev 50% retention

Demko

2019 10th overall

2019 second

[Insert B prospect here]

 

That gets the phone picked up 

 

 

 

Shero:  “You’ve won the lottery. Who goes out and sells their lottery ticket after they’ve won it?”

 

They need a top-end playmaking C.  They want to retain Taylor Hall and a lot will depend what they do in the off-season with him a free agent in one year.

 

They already have Blackwood as their future goalie.  Tanev is a 1-year rental and not a point producing D which they are looking for.  

The 10th overall is not going to be ready before a few years dixit Benning.  The 2nd is even further away. 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by mll

[oldnews]

28 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

I apparently misunderstood what he was asking.  I thought he was asking if Ristolainen could successfully pair with someone in Vancouver.  That's what my answer was geared towards.

 

If Edler stays (which from what I've read sounds unlikely) he'd be the guy to pair with Risto.

 

Since you enjoy and understand advanced statistics, I'll give you a link to an article that a Tampa Bay writer wrote concerning Ristolainen.  hint: They aren't fans of him either...

 

https://www.rawcharge.com/2019/5/30/18645356/should-the-tampa-bay-lightning-be-interested-in-rasmus-ristolainen-buffalo-sabres-nhl-trade-rumors

 

 

Fair enough - maybe I misunderstood what he was asking - but whether Ristolainen could pair well with someone in Vancouver is still a question of who he paired with in Buffalo relative to the options here.

And beyond playing with Edler - which can't be assumed - there are some far less obvious things that could and likely would make a huge difference.

I like some of Buffalo's defensive forwards - Sobotka, Larsson - but I don't consider them in the same class, or surrounded by the depth of defensive forwards that Vancouver has - I just don't see that group being able to feed Eichel and shelter Mittelstadt at the same time, and I think how exposed Mittelstadt was is pretty evident. 

Vancouver actually has a pair of lines that can handle hard minutes - two very good shutdown centers who win faceoffs at an exceptional rate, high end matchup guys, who have suitable complements on their wings - and additionally, they have Horvat at 2C, who in the absence of either of them can step easily into that dual role. 

Regardless of the Canucks M.A.S.H. results this year, I think if you take a Ristolainen and put him in that kind of supporting cast, as opposed to what he dealt with in Buffalo, there's a very good chance his goal metrics look a lot different.

Sorry - don't care how a Tampa blogger spins Ristolainen's 'advanced stats' - analytics are only as good as the analyst - and like I said, when you look at Ristolainen's 'advanced stats' in context, not only is his corsi (47.8%) not particularly bad (46.6% ozone starts - his 'underlying' shot attempt differential numbers are not bad at all) - and his goal metrics are exactly what you should expect playing in a general tire fire - with a pair of goaltenders, Ullmark and Hutton, who combined for a .907 sv%.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by oldnews

[oldnews]

18 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't forget the porous goaltending.

I don't know what goaltenders are supposed to look like behind that group.  I don't think Hutton is that bad.  .908 under the circumstances, like Ristolainen's plus/minus, may be expected as opposed to blamed.

[SabreFan1]

2 minutes ago, oldnews said:

Whether Ristolainen could pair well with someone in Vancouver is still a question of who he paired with in Buffalo relative to the options here.

And beyond playing with Edler - which can't be assumed - there are some far less obvious things that could and likely would make a huge difference.

I like some of Buffalo's defensive forwards - Sobotka, Larsson - but I don't consider them in the same class, or surrounded by the depth of defensive forwards that Vancouver has - I just don't see that group being able to feed Eichel and shelter Mittelstadt at the same time, and I think how exposed Mittelstadt was is pretty evident. 

Vancouver actually has a pair of lines that can handle hard minutes - two very good shutdown centers who win faceoffs at an exceptional rate, high end matchup guys, who have suitable complements on their wings - and additionally, they have Horvat at 2C, who in the absence of either of them can step easily into that dual role. 

Regardless of the Canucks M.A.S.H. results this year, I think if you take a Ristolainen and put him in that kind of supporting cast, as opposed to what he dealt with in Buffalo, there's a very good chance his goal metrics look a lot different.

Sorry - don't care how a Tampa blogger spins Ristolainen's 'advanced stats' - analytics are only as good as the analyst - and like I said, when you look at Ristolainen's 'advanced stats' in context, not only is his corsi (47.8%) not particularly bad (46.6% ozone starts - his 'underlying' shot attempt differential numbers are not bad at all) - and his goal metrics are exactly what you should expect playing in a general tire fire - with a pair of goaltenders, Ullmark and Hutton, who combined for a .907 sv%.

Ristolainen has played with plenty of good and bad defence partners and 2-way forwards over the last 6 seasons.  He's played roughly the same anemic game.

 

Would he do better in Vancouver?  Most likely, especially if JB can manage to keep Edler.  I just don't see Ristolainen ever being worth the current asking price.  After watching almost every NHL game he's ever played in, I've seen him stall out in his progress for too long.  Could it be past coaching, teammates, or just a badly needed change of scenery?  Sure. 

 

No matter the reasons, I just want him gone from the Sabres.  He's done all he'll ever do here.  Dahlin is the future of the Sabres defence, not Ristolainen.

 

[Gaudette Celly]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I love Boeser and Demko looks great but I'd say they are more expendable if Hughes is coming back.

 

Losing them plus tanev puts us in Lafreniere conversation next season too.

And Benning on the unemployment line.