Putin: Western liberalism is obsolete, outlived its purpose.

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I've seen some ideas on flat taxes that might work, but you still need to fund the safety net. 

Agreed but first and foremost you need to define who really needs that net and those who CHOOSE to abuse a net intended for those who cannot help themselves should not be entitled to it.   

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Bubble Man said:

Ok, so I wasn’t arguing the small business and private sector at all. The problem is, they have to play by the same rules as all corps. There is no corporate tax brackets like we have personally. Lowering corporate taxes lowers corporate taxes for the Mega corporations as well as the small business. I own a company. My company is just me. I’m not a big corp. however. Raising corporate taxes punishes me more than Walmart. Increasing minimum wage doesn’t hurt Walmart as much as The guy paying the dishwasher at his hole in the wall restaurant. The optics of higher corporate tax rates look good to the voter but they hurt the majority of the economy. Walmart or any other big Corp can take a tax hike and offset it pretty easily with adjustments. I personally feel that their should be corporate tax bracket system that separates Walmart from me a little better. Write offs don’t help because it’s still money out of your pocket. The government needs to take less off the bottom line. 

 

As for intelligence and right wing. I mean, that’s pretty subjective stuff. I’m pretty sure most of the CEO’s and ultra rich are pretty smart. I’m sure they love paying less taxes as well. You start mixing the words prejudice and intolerance into a political democratic and you start generalizing people. This is what that article does. That’s what the left does. If you are right leaning you’re a racist and that’s simply not true. How can you even accurately measure any of this. I think the majority of the population is center. Extreme left and right both lack intelligence IMO. It boils down to what you care about more. Money or human rights in Canada anyway. 

As to the bolded first.

 

I like that idea, the larger a corporation the more it pays.  Or the location of a corporate head office, or level of average salary per employee and bonuses/benefits could easily be worked in to more favourable tax rate.  effectively saying if you promise to employ and pay/take care of your employees you will pay less would be a great idea.  Hard to think of the actual tax rates or discounts applicable but not a bad idea at all

 

I would actually say no to that, tax dodgers need to start paying.  An estimated $40+ billion in dodged taxes if I recall in 2017 by Canadas largest corporations and wealthiest citizens is ridiculous.  $41 billion pays for...well, a lot.  I get audited on messing up my travel let alone failing to pay for or improperly claim something.

 

As for the intelligence factor.  That is studies done by a few different sources over a period of years based on the data available.  The data does certainly lead to damning results regarding the state of education and right leaning beliefs though

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Agreed but first and foremost you need to define who really needs that net and those who CHOOSE to abuse a net intended for those who cannot help themselves should not be entitled to it.   

I agree with that in theory, just don't know quite how you would do that. 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Really good article on Zerohedge today(The Death Of The Liberal Idea), by Russian(US resident) Dimitry Orlov. He writes with quite the sense of humour.

[Lockout Casualty]

4 hours ago, joe-max said:

I didn't say I trust my government, I said I trust them more than huge, multinational corporations, that lobby and cheat as much as they can to save taxes. Not for the greater good. Not to the benefit of their workers. Expansion, revenue, shareholders. 

 

I also never said that capitalism oppressed my cleaning woman. But if not for government control it would be much easier for me to oppress her. Btw, as she is close to minimum wage her tax rate is lower, but it is not zero. You know, because taxes finance things that can at least be considered useful for some. Things like health care, public transport, the military, theatres, schools, universities, pensions, the public pool, the playground around the corner,

 

Dedication, perseverance, hard work, talent, education, family, knowing the right people, luck, the occasional moment of enjoying what you do - there are many factors that influence your path and your success. Basing it all on "hard work" and assuming if you didn't reach the top you justn didn't work hard enough oversimplifies things. Actually it is quite ignorant. 

 

But maybe you're right and tax savings are more important that air quality and a world to live on. I mean, has it ever been scientifically proven that we really need a planet?

 

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Really good article on Zerohedge today(The Death Of The Liberal Idea), by Russian(US resident) Dimitry Orlov. He writes with quite the sense of humour.

Reading it now.  Decent write up but the one sticking point is something I've always had in argument with that side of the fence

 

the "migrant crisis" of the middle east.  Caused by the right continually interfering in middle Eastern nations and bombing countries fighting amongst themselves in to poverty.  Thus creating the crisis he says liberalism is doomed with.

 

Never understood why more people don't see that simple fact, the right bombs.  The left is dealing with the human migration that follows.

 

Then his statement of the world all following basic traditional biblical values which...is not only laughable but flies in the face of the fact that those most staunchly in defence of biblical values don't even practice those values at all.

 

Following on by a multi paragraph write up against the LGBTQ and trans whatever as he states being the death knell of liberalism.

 

My favourite was his cap off of what will replace liberalism?  Marxism/Lenninism or shiny high tech modern stalinism.

 

I mean decent read but...kind of woefully one sided and laughably transparent in what it was trying to achieve

 

Edit*. I love the comment section attached.  Full of real intellectuals 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Warhippy

[Nuxfanabroad]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Reading it now.  Decent write up but the one sticking point is something I've always had in argument with that side of the fence

 

the "migrant crisis" of the middle east.  Caused by the right continually interfering in middle Eastern nations and bombing countries fighting amongst themselves in to poverty.  Thus creating the crisis he says liberalism is doomed with.

 

Never understood why more people don't see that simple fact, the right bombs.  The left is dealing with the human migration that follows.

 

Then his statement of the world all following basic traditional biblical values which...is not only laughable but flies in the face of the fact that those most staunchly in defence of biblical values don't even practice those values at all.

 

Following on by a multi paragraph write up against the LGBTQ and trans whatever as he states being the death knell of liberalism.

 

My favourite was his cap off of what will replace liberalism?  Marxism/Lenninism or shiny high tech modern stalinism.

 

I mean decent read but...kind of woefully one sided and laughably transparent in what it was trying to achieve

 

Edit*. I love the comment section attached.  Full of real intellectuals 

Yeah, Zerohedgers bring out the crazies in their comments section. I tend to compartmentalize, with these things. So I'll never heed environmental 'opinion' with commenters on such a right wing, free market site. But you'll hear perspective, that folks would prob be reluctant to voice, even over coffee. Conversely, get pretty bleary-eyed when the eco-types(on eco-sites) start discussing new-age, market initiatives & notions. Not their forte.

 

I've been reading Orlov articles(ClubOrlov?) I think he has a site, for a while now. He's drawn an interesting parallel in past articles, referencing the speed at which the Soviet system 'melted down' in the 5 or 6 yrs after Chernobyl blew. If memory serves, he was living there at that period. He's rather critical of contemporary western culture, & I always enjoy the dissenting-perspective.

 

It's very hard to draw perfect parallels, for the here & now(7.7 billion p, tech world, etc...), a place we've never been before. They say we're always 72 hrs from utter chaos/anarchy, should the bread shelves ever stay empty that long. Whether "liberal values"(& societies based upon these supposed freedoms) have outlived their usefulness, are dead, or dying, I'll leave that for others to debate. I know how I firmly feel on such matters, but I'll just keep a bowl of popcorn'round as different folks argue over what is fact, or opinion. & so I think to myself, have we ALL been reduced to 2 categories: salespeople, or analysts?

[Warhippy]

27 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yeah, Zerohedgers bring out the crazies in their comments section. I tend to compartmentalize, with these things. So I'll never heed environmental 'opinion' with commenters on such a right wing, free market site. But you'll hear perspective, that folks would prob be reluctant to voice, even over coffee. Conversely, get pretty bleary-eyed when the eco-types(on eco-sites) start discussing new-age, market initiatives & notions. Not their forte.

 

I've been reading Orlov articles(ClubOrlov?) I think he has a site, for a while now. He's drawn an interesting parallel in past articles, referencing the speed at which the Soviet system 'melted down' in the 5 or 6 yrs after Chernobyl blew. If memory serves, he was living there at that period. He's rather critical of contemporary western culture, & I always enjoy the dissenting-perspective.

 

It's very hard to draw perfect parallels, for the here & now(7.7 billion p, tech world, etc...), a place we've never been before. They say we're always 72 hrs from utter chaos/anarchy, should the bread shelves ever stay empty that long. Whether "liberal values"(& societies based upon these supposed freedoms) have outlived their usefulness, are dead, or dying, I'll leave that for others to debate. I know how I firmly feel on such matters, but I'll just keep a bowl of popcorn'round as different folks argue over what is fact, or opinion. & so I think to myself, have we ALL been reduced to 2 categories: salespeople, or analysts?

I've actually come across Orlov before and find their posts to be well written, insightful.  While I don't agree with much of their slant or aim I do find it hard to discredit their stance.  

 

But that post seems a bit too...I dunno.  Pro Russia and anti "specific" social justice issues for my tastes

[canuckistani]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Reading it now.  Decent write up but the one sticking point is something I've always had in argument with that side of the fence

 

the "migrant crisis" of the middle east.  Caused by the right continually interfering in middle Eastern nations and bombing countries fighting amongst themselves in to poverty.  Thus creating the crisis he says liberalism is doomed with.

 

Never understood why more people don't see that simple fact, the right bombs.  The left is dealing with the human migration that follows.

 

Then his statement of the world all following basic traditional biblical values which...is not only laughable but flies in the face of the fact that those most staunchly in defence of biblical values don't even practice those values at all.

 

Following on by a multi paragraph write up against the LGBTQ and trans whatever as he states being the death knell of liberalism.

 

My favourite was his cap off of what will replace liberalism?  Marxism/Lenninism or shiny high tech modern stalinism.

 

I mean decent read but...kind of woefully one sided and laughably transparent in what it was trying to achieve

 

Edit*. I love the comment section attached.  Full of real intellectuals 

The right and the left bombs Middle East. 

[Lancaster]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

As to the bolded first.

 

I like that idea, the larger a corporation the more it pays.  Or the location of a corporate head office, or level of average salary per employee and bonuses/benefits could easily be worked in to more favourable tax rate.  effectively saying if you promise to employ and pay/take care of your employees you will pay less would be a great idea.  Hard to think of the actual tax rates or discounts applicable but not a bad idea at all

 

I would actually say no to that, tax dodgers need to start paying.  An estimated $40+ billion in dodged taxes if I recall in 2017 by Canadas largest corporations and wealthiest citizens is ridiculous.  $41 billion pays for...well, a lot.  I get audited on messing up my travel let alone failing to pay for or improperly claim something.

 

As for the intelligence factor.  That is studies done by a few different sources over a period of years based on the data available.  The data does certainly lead to damning results regarding the state of education and right leaning beliefs though

The problem is... what's the line between tax avoidance and just tax minimization?

 

The ultra wealthy aren't necessarily having huge cashflow... just their assets are generating their wealth.  The problem with meddling with capital gains and dividend reimbursement, etc... it can only be applied universally, which obviously will hurt the less wealthier people entering their retirement age.  

 

The problem with increasing taxes to corporations, they are very mobile.  All they got to do is register in another jurisdiction and suddenly they're no longer taxed by Canadian rates (a bit more complex than that, but that's the gist of it).  I'm not tax accounting expert, but it would open a whole can of worms to go after companies for just simply operating here.  

 

Plus... did you know that people actually don't have to take any deductions when filing taxes?  If someone really wishes for taxes to be higher.... they can easily forego their tax refunds and help contribute to the "greater good".  If that doesn't make sense on a personal level, it makes as much sense business-wise.  

[Rob_Zepp]

3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree with that in theory, just don't know quite how you would do that. 

Well, people get job interviews all the time to demonstrate they meet minimum qualifications and their performance is assessed regularly.   Why not for people who those with jobs are supporting?

[Ryan Strome]

12 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I agree with that in theory, just don't know quite how you would do that. 

I think everyone agrees it's always been how do we stop the abusing.

11 hours ago, Warhippy said:

 

 

Never understood why more people don't see that simple fact, the right bombs.  The left is dealing with the human migration that follows.

 

 

Probably because this is bs not fact. Vietnam--LBJ(democrat) Syria--Obama(democrat)

Syria was a main driver in the migrant crisis and you blame the right.

10 hours ago, canuckistani said:

The right and the left bombs Middle East. 

Thank you. It's sad and pathetic that some are so tied to party affiliation that they can't see that US bombing other nations is not a partisan thing.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Ryan Strome

[Ryan Strome]

8 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

Well, people get job interviews all the time to demonstrate they meet minimum qualifications and their performance is assessed regularly.   Why not for people who those with jobs are supporting?

Mandatory drug tests and verifiable proof the individuals are vigorously looking for employment? I would support this Rob but would it be even more of a cost?

 

I agree with you but I just don't know if policing it would even be possible.

[JM_]

56 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Mandatory drug tests and verifiable proof the individuals are vigorously looking for employment? I would support this Rob but would it be even more of a cost?

 

I agree with you but I just don't know if policing it would even be possible.

and lets be honest, how many highly qualified people are gaming the welfare system? 

[Baer.]

12 hours ago, Warhippy said:

the "migrant crisis" of the middle east.  Caused by the right continually interfering in middle Eastern nations and bombing countries fighting amongst themselves in to poverty.  Thus creating the crisis he says liberalism is doomed with.

 

Never understood why more people don't see that simple fact, the right bombs.  The left is dealing with the human migration that follows.

"The rights bombs, the left deals with it"

 

Obama never dropped a single bomb, eh?

[Baer.]

24 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

and lets be honest, how many highly qualified people are gaming the welfare system? 

Is this rhetorical?

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Baer. said:

Is this rhetorical?

nope. When you factor in people with disabilities, young moms, people that haven't had the opportunity to gain skills and rural issues how many people are left over that are actively "gaming" the system? 

 

[Baer.]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

nope. When you factor in people with disabilities, young moms, people that haven't had the opportunity to gain skills and rural issues how many people are left over that are actively "gaming" the system? 

 

More than you think, apparently.

[Duodenum]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

Mandatory drug tests and verifiable proof the individuals are vigorously looking for employment? I would support this Rob but would it be even more of a cost?

 

I agree with you but I just don't know if policing it would even be possible.

Drug tests are just a bad idea. 

 

The huge cost of running such an operation along with the increases in crime and incarceration if you take away assistance from addicts wouldn't be worth it I think. 

[Baer.]

I know people who are perfectly capable of working who gave been living for years off government subsidies. With the money they get for their kids and "disability", him and his wife will never have to work. I know them personally. He is more fit than I am. He pays less than $1000 a month for rent on a 3 bedroom condo, subsidised housing. And he uses government money to pay his rent 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Baer.