[Signing] Hurricanes sign Jake Gardiner

[riffraff]

Jake Gardiner is great for hockey pools where defence doesn’t count.

[Coconuts]

10 hours ago, WHL rocks said:

CAR was definitely better last season. They made it to the Eastern Conference Finals while  Leafs were out in the first round again. 

 

This Canes team is set to compete for a Cup the next few years. Their defense is best in the league. They've added a couple of forwards including Haula and Dzingle whom imo is another great signing. They got him cheap just like Gardiner. 

It pains because I don't like Carolina, but you're right. And now they're likely looking to move someone to improve elsewhere. 

 

I imagine they'll do well, I just hope they don't do too well come playoff time this time round. 

[WHL rocks]

8 hours ago, theo5789 said:

Both players are the same age, just a few months apart. I'm not sure how they are similar defensively. Gardiner hardly touched the PK while Myers was heavily trusted on the PK and that is with Trouba who was another RD that also was utilized a lot on the PK. Myers' reach gives him a big advantage defensively.

 

We will just have to see how both players fare on their new teams this season to have a better gauge.

He was pretty bad on PK in WPG. 2nd worst for shots against and goals against. 

 

Advance stats show Myers is a pretty bad defensive Dman. As a Canucks fan it's not fun reading this stuff.

 

Just a quick Google search gives all sorts of info Canucks fans would wish wasn't true. 

 

Couple of days ago I read Gardiner 5v5 goals for was top 12 over 3 years. His team scored 54% of the goals over past 4 years when he was on ice. Myers is replacement level meaning you can get a guy on waivers and he'll do what Myers did if put in same position with same team mates. 

 

Gardiner got a bad rep because of the game 7 gaffes. Once something like that happens it's hard to shake off that reputation. 

[189lb enforcers?]

10 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Not if he costs more points than he creates because he refuses to play like an NHLer in his own zone.  Gardiner singlehandedly lost 2 deciding games for the leafs with unacceptably poor defensive play.  Unless he does a 180 and commits to actually learning how to play defense, he's worse than useless.

Worse than useless...? 

I never know when to take you seriously. 

[theo5789]

19 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

He was pretty bad on PK in WPG. 2nd worst for shots against and goals against. 

 

Advance stats show Myers is a pretty bad defensive Dman. As a Canucks fan it's not fun reading this stuff.

 

Just a quick Google search gives all sorts of info Canucks fans would wish wasn't true. 

 

Couple of days ago I read Gardiner 5v5 goals for was top 12 over 3 years. His team scored 54% of the goals over past 4 years when he was on ice. Myers is replacement level meaning you can get a guy on waivers and he'll do what Myers did if put in same position with same team mates. 

 

Gardiner got a bad rep because of the game 7 gaffes. Once something like that happens it's hard to shake off that reputation. 

Coaches don't play players over 2 mins a night on the PK if they think they're doing a bad job. And coaches don't keep you off the PK for an entire season if they think they are respectable defensively especially on a team as weak on actual defense as Toronto.

 

Hellebuyck didn't have a good season and the team as a whole underperformed in Winnipeg last season. Not sure how shots against and goals against can be solely blamed on Myers. If you're playing more minutes, you're going to face more shots against which in turn likely results in more goals against.

 

Gardiner could've playing in a more sheltered role with the teams top offensive players (which makes sense since he plays more of an offensive game) rather than giving him the harder minutes which could attribute to him being on the ice for the team's production.

 

We will see if these advanced stats carry forward to their new teams or if they were simply a result of the teams. Coaches know their players strengths and weaknesses and get advice from staff that possibly used advanced stats (likely in a more proper way than spot picking data) and play their players accordingly. IMO, it's a no brainer that Myers is likely the better defender than Gardiner.

[JM_]

18 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Lots of primary assists to the other team though.

it'll be interesting to see if he can score on the PP or not. He's never been a goal scorer but if he can distribute the puck maybe it'll work out. I've commented on it more than I really care about it already  

 

Just glad he isn't here, and I'm glad the usual haters are upset about it. 

[JM_]

58 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

Couple of days ago I read Gardiner 5v5 goals for was top 12 over 3 years. His team scored 54% of the goals over past 4 years when he was on ice. Myers is replacement level meaning you can get a guy on waivers and he'll do what Myers did if put in same position with same team mates. 

its statements like that which make me laugh at the term "advanced stats'. 

[WHL rocks]

8 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Coaches don't play players over 2 mins a night on the PK if they think they're doing a bad job. And coaches don't keep you off the PK for an entire season if they think they are respectable defensively especially on a team as weak on actual defense as Toronto.

 

Hellebuyck didn't have a good season and the team as a whole underperformed in Winnipeg last season. Not sure how shots against and goals against can be solely blamed on Myers. If you're playing more minutes, you're going to face more shots against which in turn likely results in more goals against.

 

Gardiner could've playing in a more sheltered role with the teams top offensive players (which makes sense since he plays more of an offensive game) rather than giving him the harder minutes which could attribute to him being on the ice for the team's production.

 

We will see if these advanced stats carry forward to their new teams or if they were simply a result of the teams. Coaches know their players strengths and weaknesses and get advice from staff that possibly used advanced stats (likely in a more proper way than spot picking data) and play their players accordingly. IMO, it's a no brainer that Myers is likely the better defender than Gardiner.

Yeah we'll have to wait and see. But if people on cdc are calling Gardiner a gaffe machine or give away machine Myers isn't much better. Hes a 4d 5d. Plays well 3rd pair and is ok 2nd pair. 6 mill 5 years is a lot to pay for a 3rd pair Dman. Reading Jets  forum posts don't give confidence over his signing. 

 

Couple of articles. One from Peg media other from Van media 

 

 

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/07/10/first-look-canucks-overpay-tyler-myers/

 

https://jetsnation.ca/2018/05/24/pilots-logbook-2017-18-tyler-myers/

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, WHL rocks said:

Myers is replacement level meaning you can get a guy on waivers and he'll do what Myers did if put in same position with same team mates. 

You seem to be saying the Canucks would be better if they kept Biega and did not sign Meyers, as they could have saved millions, for the same results.

[JeremyCuddles]

Think people are sleeping on this pickup a little bit. Stick him with Pesce and he could maybe flourish. Playing with Zaitsev did him no favours. Toronto’s blueline was almost as bad as ours. He has an opportunity on a good blueline now. They have no goalie though. So he won’t get bailed out as often by Andersen, but hopefully Pesce can keep him outta trouble.

[WHL rocks]

1 minute ago, gurn said:

You seem to be saying the Canucks would be better if they kept Biega and did not sign Meyers, as they could have saved millions, for the same results.

I posted links to cpl articles above. Read them and make up your own mind.

 

Biega wouldn't be equal in every statistical categorie but certain ones that's what the article seems to point out. 

 

I do feel Myers contract is an overpayment in salary and term. 

 

He's poor defensively and isn't a top pair Dman. Hes the 25th highest Dman in the NHL. 

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

I posted links to cpl articles above. Read them and make up your own mind.

 

Biega wouldn't be equal in every statistical categorie but certain ones that's what the article seems to point out. 

 

I do feel Myers contract is an overpayment in salary and term. 

 

He's poor defensively and isn't a top pair Dman. Hes the 25th highest Dman in the NHL. 

To me the writing that matters is on the contract. Professional NHL GMs have valued Meyers far above Biega for many years.

[WHL rocks]

6 minutes ago, gurn said:

To me the writing that matters is on the contract. Professional NHL GMs have valued Meyers far above Biega for many years.

Lui contract vs majority of league contracts would also lead you to same conclusion. Same with lucic contract.

 

I think you missed this part. 

11 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

 

Biega wouldn't be equal in every statistical categorie but certain ones that's what the article seems to point out. 

No one said they are same player in all aspects of the game. I don't see that In the article.

 

 In certain situations on ice Myers provides replacement level value. 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2019 by WHL rocks

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, WHL rocks said:

 

He's poor defensively

 

except when he isn't.

 

He, like many players, needs a good defensive partner. He had a great year paired with Enstrom (go look at that year). If he meshes with Benn in a similar way he'll be just fine. There's way too much team context to boil it all down to useless "advanced stats" that suggest we should have just grabbed a waiver guy instead. We need to wait and see what the fit will be with Benn. 

 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/myersty01.html

Edited September 7, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[theo5789]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

except when he isn't.

 

He, like many players, needs a good defensive partner. He had a great year paired with Engstrom (go look at that year). If he meshes with Benn in a similar way he'll be just fine. There's way too much team context to boil it all down to useless "advanced stats" that suggest we should have just grabbed a waiver guy instead. We need to wait and see what the fit will be with Benn. 

 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/myersty01.html

Is he being partnered with Benn? On the PK maybe, but I suspect he'll be with Edler or Hughes 5v5.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, theo5789 said:

Is he being partnered with Benn? On the PK maybe, but I suspect he'll be with Edler or Hughes 5v5.

yeah Benning made the statement in August that he thinks thats the pairing they'll go with. 

[WHL rocks]

5 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

except when he isn't.

 

He, like many players, needs a good defensive partner. He had a great year paired with Enstrom (go look at that year). If he meshes with Benn in a similar way he'll be just fine. There's way too much team context to boil it all down to useless "advanced stats" that suggest we should have just grabbed a waiver guy instead. We need to wait and see what the fit will be with Benn. 

 

 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/m/myersty01.html

Imho 25th highest paid Dman in the NHL should make his partner better and be a solid top4 Dman regardless of who he's paired up with.

[theo5789]

13 minutes ago, N7Nucks said:

Think people are sleeping on this pickup a little bit. Stick him with Pesce and he could maybe flourish. Playing with Zaitsev did him no favours. Toronto’s blueline was almost as bad as ours. He has an opportunity on a good blueline now. They have no goalie though. So he won’t get bailed out as often by Andersen, but hopefully Pesce can keep him outta trouble.

Or perhaps Zaitsev was dragged down by Gardiner, who knows. We will see soon enough. Even if Gardiner does flourish, he's on a far better defensive group now compared to Toronto which may suit his game more than the non-existent defense that Toronto had. I expect Gardiner to fit with that group, but I suspect his point totals may dip a bit unless he's on the top PP unit (which he likely wouldn't have been here with Hughes in the fold).

 

4 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah Benning made the statement in August that he thinks thats the pairing they'll go with. 

So Stecher with Edler and Tanev with Hughes then? I can't imagine Hughes and Stecher together. It's going to be a very balanced defense minutes-wise if that's how he project the defensive group.

[JM_]

7 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Or perhaps Zaitsev was dragged down by Gardiner, who knows. We will see soon enough. Even if Gardiner does flourish, he's on a far better defensive group now compared to Toronto which may suit his game more than the non-existent defense that Toronto had. I expect Gardiner to fit with that group, but I suspect his point totals may dip a bit unless he's on the top PP unit (which he likely wouldn't have been here with Hughes in the fold).

 

So Stecher with Edler and Tanev with Hughes then? I can't imagine Hughes and Stecher together. It's going to be a very balanced defense minutes-wise if that's how he project the defensive group.

thats what Benning was taking about on 1040 I believe. Sorry don't have the link at hand, but he did say Benn-Myers and Hughes-Tanev were likely pairings. Edler-Stecher will work well I think. 

[JeremyCuddles]

6 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Or perhaps Zaitsev was dragged down by Gardiner, who knows. We will see soon enough. Even if Gardiner does flourish, he's on a far better defensive group now compared to Toronto which may suit his game more than the non-existent defense that Toronto had. I expect Gardiner to fit with that group, but I suspect his point totals may dip a bit unless he's on the top PP unit (which he likely wouldn't have been here with Hughes in the fold).

I'd say Gardiner is better, maybe even a lot better, than Zaitsev. At least Gardiner was putting up points. Zaitsev was garbo defensively and wasn't scoring. Hard to be bad at both and then blame your D partner for it. Lol. Gardiner had 30 points in 62 games last season (5 PP points) playing behind a red hot Rielly, I suspect he'll still be a 35-40 point guy on any team regardless of being on the 1st unit PP. I am not comparing him to Myers, I don't think he'd be a fit here. I am saying people are underestimating the impact he could likely have on Carolina. A lot of people want to say he was the problem in Toronto and that Gardiner is trash. Defensively, yeah he's lacking but his ability to produce is there and with Pesce Carolina could have a top 10 D core in the league next season. Even if they moved out Bean, Fleury, or Hamilton.