The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

 

yup, I can. They will vote 60+% conservative. Now, it could get interesting if the provincial wexiteers bleed off ~20% of the con vote, but I don't see that happening because the "anything but NDP" mentality will kick in to prevent that from ever happening again. 

You're exactly right.  it will be UCP, Wexit, NDP in that order.  And absolutely nothing will change.

[24K PureCool]

God do I want to trade Alberta to the US for Washington state and Oregon. 

[RUPERTKBD]

4 minutes ago, 24K PureCool said:

God do I want to trade Alberta to the US for Washington state and Oregon. 

I'd even throw in Sutter and a third....

[MikeBossy]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I prefer the dissenting views myself.  It allows for debate.  No other views no debate.  No forum as it was

 

Kenney has/is or will alienate the rural vote.  Alberta has always had a mandate to vote further to the right after a failed government.  They will label him a red tory or faux liberal and then push towards a further right solution.  Which in this instance is the WEXIT party.  People have fond hopes of a vote split but it won't happen.  There will be no NDP vote, even though by the numbers the NDP did more and better for Alberta than almost anyone since Klein first took over.

What I find ironic is how Albertans are shocked the UCP didn't learn anything from the last time they were voted out. Between Kenney and Shandro and their lack of public consultation and tact - along with the usual shenanigans of appointing unqualified people to positions (See Shandro) what did they expect. This is Con 101 what we have here in Alberta.

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, 24K PureCool said:

God do I want to trade Alberta to the US for Washington state and Oregon. 

[Warhippy]

58 minutes ago, MikeBossy said:

What I find ironic is how Albertans are shocked the UCP didn't learn anything from the last time they were voted out. Between Kenney and Shandro and their lack of public consultation and tact - along with the usual shenanigans of appointing unqualified people to positions (See Shandro) what did they expect. This is Con 101 what we have here in Alberta.

Here's Kenney's latest FB post regarding their change in position on school reopening....just one comment and its replies.  It's genuinely shocking how frigging predictable Albertans are politically.  Blaming the NDP, suggesting a vote for a further right party.  Calling Kenney a fake conservative.  I literally called this like 3 a day ago

 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

Just gets better and better in the Berta for cuts.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

29 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Just gets better and better in the Berta for cuts.

 

Rather than posting the reply of someone who’s obviously impacted negatively and has a clear bias, what’s your opinion on the discussion not that it has any effect on your.  Keep in mind the CCC NCC, and SCC have been operating for several years now. This is them being rolled into the SCC.
 

Alberta is implementing a system that is already in place in BC and Nova Scotia. This will have some issues to clean up at the start like most systems but will save albertans 6 million a year and they have plans of opening up extra jobs in the three hub cities. 

 

 

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Rather than posting the reply of someone who’s obviously impacted negatively and has a clear bias, what’s your opinion on the discussion not that it has any effect on your.  Keep in mind the CCC NCC, and SCC have been operating for several years now. This is them being rolled into the SCC.
 

Alberta is implementing a system that is already in place in BC and Nova Scotia. This will have some issues to clean up at the start like most systems but will save albertans 6 million a year and they have plans of opening up extra jobs in the three hub cities. 

 

 

For what it's worth, many front line EMC professionals in BC decry the system for the same reasons as listed above.

 

Centralization does not work when people's lives or property are at risk.

 

Related, but want to ask.  How do you feel about the ongoing cuts and excuses behind them.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Warhippy

[ForsbergTheGreat]

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

For what it's worth, many front line EMC professionals in BC decry the system for the same reasons as listed above.

 

Centralization does not work when people's lives or property are at risk.

It has already proven is doesn’t. Again ccc ncc and Scc are we’re phase one of centralizing things. This is just phase two as someone who has family on front line emc in Alberta they are not concerned at all by this.  The cry that because they aren’t in the city they won’t know what addresses are is laughable. 
 

 

11 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

 

Related, but want to ask.  How do you feel about the ongoing cuts and excuses behind them.

Unless Alberta has a money tree they are hiding. Cuts are necessary.  You can’t constantly operating in a deficit. You should understand that as well. While I’m sure it’s nice to give friends discounts on photography shoots. Discounts don’t put food on the table.
 

Obviously people affected are going to voice their displeasure but the real world doesn’t let up just because someone publicly states an emotional response. 

[Warhippy]

5 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

Unless Alberta has a money tree they are hiding. Cuts are necessary.  You can’t constantly operating in a deficit. You should understand that as well. While I’m sure it’s nice to give friends discounts on photography shoots. Discounts don’t put food on the table.

Do you think the austerity measures will work?

[ForsbergTheGreat]

35 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Do you think the austerity measures will work?

Do they really have a choice. When the bills are due, the bills are due. 
 

I mean do people believe this is the ideal state to added cuts to all these services. They’re not doing it for $#€| and giggles or to purposely piss people off. There is a reason. We are broke and the money isn’t coming in like it used to be. When a sole provider of a family loses their Income, hard decision have to be made. No one enjoys it. 

[thedestroyerofworlds]

6 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

 

Unless Alberta has a money tree they are hiding. Cuts are necessary.  You can’t constantly operating in a deficit. You should understand that as well. While I’m sure it’s nice to give friends discounts on photography shoots. Discounts don’t put food on the table.
 

Obviously people affected are going to voice their displeasure but the real world doesn’t let up just because someone publicly states an emotional response. 

Alberta is now at the point where the actual cost of all those tax cuts that were supposed to pay for themselves with all the promised economic activity trickle down economics fan boys bantered on and on about.  Meanwhile, the people who said trickle down economics doesn't work predicted this.

 

How trickle down economics actually works:

 

1)  Cons promise tax cuts and do them.

 

2)  Revenues get destroyed and deficits balloon.

 

3)  Cons use deficits to justify slashing  programs, propose privatization to get the books under control. 

 

4)  Profit, at least for all the big money donors that is.

 

Alberta is at 3.

 

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

6 hours ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Alberta is now at the point where the actual cost of all those tax cuts that were supposed to pay for themselves with all the promised economic activity trickle down economics fan boys bantered on and on about.  Meanwhile, the people who said trickle down economics doesn't work predicted this.

UPC has been back in power for 1 year, the first drop from 12% to 11% took place last july and the reduction from 11%-10% took place in January.   AND just in this last 35 days dropped the rate from 10% to 8%, to meet the campaigns promise.  I'm not sure how you came the conclusion that this is "the point" where we'd see results. The reality is most economist suggest it would take 4 years minimum to see results on corp tax cuts, with even more results in the long run. 

 

The historic evidence actually suggests that over the last 36 years in canadian provincial history, four years after a one-percentage point reduction in a provincial corporate income tax rate, the economic growth rate increases by 0.12 percentage points and real per capita GDP increases by 1.2 per cent in the long run.

 

https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Canada-CIT-Dahlby-Ferede.pdf

 

And when that historic model is applied to Alberta

Quote

The four-percentage-point reduction is estimated to reduce total tax revenues by about $350 million per year in the long run. This reduction in long-run total revenues is only 25 per cent of the so-called “mechanical effect”, which is the revenue loss calculated from multiplying the tax rate reduction by the average CIT revenue per tax point. Thus, the expansion of the economy and the corporate tax base substantially offsets the loss of tax revenue in the long run from the CIT rate cut. While a $350-million reduction in revenues is significant, it is small in the context of the $6.7 billion 2018-2019 deficit. Furthermore, the corporate income tax revenues are “high cost” sources of revenue because they reduce the income-generating opportunities for Albertans by reducing corporate investment and employment. Cutting the corporate tax rate, even though there is an urgent need to reduce the provincial fiscal deficit, is justified in our view because of the positive impact on economic growth and employment opportunities for Albertans.

https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Alberta-CIT-Dahlby-Ferede.pdf

 

So let's be real, you are not an economist and you clearly have zero business background, which is why I find it quite funny when people like yourself not only try to give financial and economic advice, but present it in a tone as if you think you are smarter than others.   But hey it's a hockey discussion board I guess, where everyone thinks they are a smarter than the head coach or the GM of an organization I get it.  

[thedestroyerofworlds]

21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

UPC has been back in power for 1 year, the first drop from 12% to 11% took place last july and the reduction from 11%-10% took place in January.   AND just in this last 35 days dropped the rate from 10% to 8%, to meet the campaigns promise.  I'm not sure how you came the conclusion that this is "the point" where we'd see results. The reality is most economist suggest it would take 4 years minimum to see results on corp tax cuts, with even more results in the long run. 

 

The historic evidence actually suggests that over the last 36 years in canadian provincial history, four years after a one-percentage point reduction in a provincial corporate income tax rate, the economic growth rate increases by 0.12 percentage points and real per capita GDP increases by 1.2 per cent in the long run.

 

https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Canada-CIT-Dahlby-Ferede.pdf

 

And when that historic model is applied to Alberta

https://www.policyschool.ca/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Alberta-CIT-Dahlby-Ferede.pdf

 

So let's be real, you are not an economist and you clearly have zero business background, which is why I find it quite funny when people like yourself not only try to give financial and economic advice, but present it in a tone as if you think you are smarter than others.   But hey it's a hockey discussion board I guess, where everyone thinks they are a smarter than the head coach or the GM of an organization I get it.  

Your source is a projection that trickle down economics gurus promise will happen every time they push their tax cuts.   In the future, the economy will grow and magically make up for the loss on revenue.   You even admit it will take years for the tax cuts to magically return  revenue to the treasury.  Meanwhile, that loss in revenue is used to slash and burn programs RIGHT NOW.  And these latest cuts are on top of cuts in taxes from previous governments.  Conservative Albertans lost their minds when there was even a suggestion that cuts to oil/gas royalties were going to be reversed by the NDP.  How dare they try and raise tax revenues when dealing with deficits.  Nope  let's double, triple, quadruple down on cutting taxes that will somehow make more tax revenue.   

 

Kansas says hi.

 

Edit:

 

BTW, cutting isn't new for Kenney and co

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by thedestroyerofworlds

[Warhippy]

9 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Do they really have a choice. When the bills are due, the bills are due. 
 

I mean do people believe this is the ideal state to added cuts to all these services. They’re not doing it for $#€| and giggles or to purposely piss people off. There is a reason. We are broke and the money isn’t coming in like it used to be. When a sole provider of a family loses their Income, hard decision have to be made. No one enjoys it. 

Do you think it's fair that the people are facing major austerity measures but the Kenney lead UCP is still finding ways to give tax money, breaks, subsidization or loans to oil and gas companies while also telling private landowners and municipalities that the government will not support attempts to sue to recoup those broken contracts?

 

Have been following the cuts, vs spending and it seems entirely one sided for who is and is not being forced to accept less.  As you live there I am genuinely curious about how you feel the direction the province is heading and whether or not the state of things will push people towards the wexit groups or freedom group

[ForsbergTheGreat]

24 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

Your source is a projection

No it's 36 years of past and proven history, two sources were posted.

 

24 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

that trickle down economics gurus promise will happen every time they push their tax cuts.   In the future, the economy will grow and magically make up for the loss on revenue.   You even admit it will take years for the tax cuts to magically return  revenue to the treasury.  Meanwhile, that loss in revenue is used to slash and burn programs RIGHT NOW.  And these latest cuts are on top of cuts in taxes from previous governments.  Conservative Albertans lost their minds when there was even a suggestion that cuts to oil/gas royalties were going to be reversed by the NDP.  How dare they try and raise tax revenues when dealing with deficits.  Nope  let's double, triple, quadruple down on cutting taxes that will somehow make more tax revenue.   

See this is where your clear lack of understanding kicks in.  Con's lost there minds because NPD decided at the worst possible time to put a revenue in and companies fled costing albertan billions in revenue that was previously there. What's 12% of zero, i know that's hard math but it's something you seem to struggle with.  When companies pack up and leave there's NO revenue. Tax cuts are one lever to incentivize companies to stay and invest more, again 36 years of proven history.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JM_]

18 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Do you think it's fair that the people are facing major austerity measures but the Kenney lead UCP is still finding ways to give tax money, breaks, subsidization or loans to oil and gas companies while also telling private landowners and municipalities that the government will not support attempts to sue to recoup those broken contracts?

 

Have been following the cuts, vs spending and it seems entirely one sided for who is and is not being forced to accept less.  As you live there I am genuinely curious about how you feel the direction the province is heading and whether or not the state of things will push people towards the wexit groups or freedom group

The AB corporate tax cut was/is a stupid idea if the justification for it is GDP growth. If all they are getting for nearly 5 billion in tax revenue losses is a 1.2 %GDP rise thats a lesser return compared to investing in infrastructure projects (the discounted rate is more than double for major city and highway projects). You get up to 1.4 dollars in GDP increase for every dollar spent right away for every project and thousands of guaranteed jobs right away, you'd think with all the out of work folks that would be a good thing.... but UCP gonna UCP. 

 

Kenny picked the poorest return for taxpayer money, once again. 

 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Robert Long

[Warhippy]

9 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

When companies pack up and leave there's NO revenue. Tax cuts are one lever to incentivize companies to stay and invest more, again 36 years of proven history.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

But by the numbers, companies are taking large incentives, subsidies and abandoning lease contracts and still leaving.  With the blessing of the current government.  TOTAL didn't just divest themselves of the oilsands; they also left CAPP as well.  Major european banks also pulling investment funding and more.  But every chance there's yet more breaks, incentives and more.  But the people face cuts.

 

I just find it curious and would like to know why people feel that is acceptable on the backs of the taxpayers and workers that built the province

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Robert Long said:

The AB corporate tax cut was/is a stupid idea if the justification for it is GDP growth. If all they are getting for nearly 5 billion in tax revenue losses is a 1.2 GDP rise thats a lesser return compared to investing in infrastructure projects (the discounted rate is more than double for major city and highway projects). You get up to 1.4 dollars in GDP increase right away for every project and thousands of guaranteed jobs right away, you'd think with all the out of work folks that would be a good thing.... but UCP gonna UCP. 

 

Kenny picked the poorest return for taxpayer money, once again. 

This isn't just Kenney, this has been a go to play for decades; but someone else always gets the blame when the bill comes do.  Klein left what was deemed a "generational" loss of health and educational professionals with his cuts.  By the numbers it appears that over the duration; the UCP will have done even more damage.

 

I'm really trying to wrap my head around it but can't.  Again, by the numbers it appears that the people are being told to accept austerity measures, they are being told the government will not help them recoup broken contracts; but large multinational companies are being given breaks, subsidies and more at the expense of the taxpayers and workers.

 

I don't get it