[Discussion] - Nashville “Open” for Business

[mll]

1 minute ago, N7Nucks said:

You don't understand not negotiating with a team because they are only offering UFAs is unintelligent? I am not sure how to dumb that down anymore but I'll try. 

 

I do not care if they aren't offering up "core" players, if they are having a yard sale regardless of what they are selling I'd be interested in asking the price. And it doesn't hurt to ask about "core" players. Nobody is untradeable. Other GMs ask about players we'd consider off the table all the time. 

I don't think we disagree.  If the Canucks had cap space and wants to improve the team ahead of the playoffs and someone like Granlund can be had for cheap - why not.  It all comes down to the asking price.

 

Anyone can be had but the price for core players is likely prohibitive.  Someone with term who is too comfortable in Nashville could be had for cheaper.    

 

[Down by the River]

20 minutes ago, mll said:

 Poile says it's just so difficult to find Ds.  

 

Probably because he has them all... and then trades a bunch They drafted Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, and Kevin Klein in the same draft... all three of those guys were  Ryan Ellis and Mathias Ekholm in the same draft, Cody Franson a later-round pick, Roman Josi, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

 

Also, David Poile might have one of the worst histories at/near the trade deadline. Simmonds (now with NJ) for Hartman, Granlund for Fiala, Bryan Boyle (now with FLA) for a 2nd, Ryan Hartman (traded a year later) for a first round pick and change... the list goes on:

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/David_Poile/150/2

[mll]

17 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

That may be, but if they miss the playoffs, or don't go very far, he'll eventually take the hit.

We'll see. Gretzky, at one point, was untouchable.

 

I have a hard time believing Poile when he says it's difficult to find defensemen. Nashville has been pumping out great defensemen for years now. Weber, Suter, Josi, Ellis, Hamhuis. Maybe for other teams, it's difficult, but for Nashville? Bah!

In 16 drafts - from their inception in 1998 to 2013 when they drafted Jones, Nashville has a draft success rate for Ds of 20%.  

 

They found 10 Ds out of 49 picks.  They are only 67% in the 1st round with 4 out of 6 picks.  43% in the 2nd round - 3 out of 7 picks.  Only found 3 in the later rounds on 36 picks - one being Franson who was out of the league at 30.  

 

They did find Fabbro and Girard in 2016.   

 

 

[laddie]

17 minutes ago, Down by the River said:

Probably because he has them all... and then trades a bunch They drafted Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, and Kevin Klein in the same draft... all three of those guys were  Ryan Ellis and Mathias Ekholm in the same draft, Cody Franson a later-round pick, Roman Josi, Seth Jones, Dante Fabbro, Samuel Girard...

 

Also, David Poile might have one of the worst histories at/near the trade deadline. Simmonds (now with NJ) for Hartman, Granlund for Fiala, Bryan Boyle (now with FLA) for a 2nd, Ryan Hartman (traded a year later) for a first round pick and change... the list goes on:

 

http://www.nhltradetracker.com/user/trade_list_by_GM/David_Poile/150/2

I think perhaps that their D might be beginning to be the source of their issues.  This is their current lineup and I realize they have key injuries to Fabbro, Hamhuis and Ellis but their depth isn’t great especially with Weber playing on the top pairing.  They are asking a lot of Fabbro right now and Hamhuis is in the twilight of his career.  Could their issue scoring be due to their inability to move the puck up the ice which used to be a strength of their club?

 

 

[RonMexico]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Poile's the next to go now that Laviolette is gone. I can't see any player on the team being untouchable.

Wasn't too long ago Poile was at the top of the GM pile until he traded Weber for Subban and the castle walls crumbled.

 

His empire was built from the net out. Problem being, he never brought in enough offence. The team has never had a true number one line. 

[EternalCanuckFan]

The Predators look like they have about $1.9M in cap room so they could be sellers while reducing taking or retaining salary.

 

I'm not sold on Mikael Granlund.  His performance since being traded has left a lot to be desired and his cap hit, even if it's just for one-year, is quite high.  He might do better in a different setting but I don't think the Canucks will be in on him.  I would expect a player like Fabbro to be relatively untouchable.

 

I could, however, see the Canucks having interest in a player like Craig Smith.  He's a 30-year old versatile middle-6 forward on an expiring contract ($4.25M) who can play C and W.  He appears to be decent at both ends of the ice and has only missed the 20-goal mark once since 2013-2014.  I'd expect the cost of acquiring him to be less than Granlund (based mostly on Granlund's past history rather than his recent performance) but it might still be relatively costly.  Hard to see exactly how he fits however though below is one possibility:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Smith

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Ferland-Beagle-Motte

Eriksson

 

I assume Baertschi would have to be involved but there would need to be some other cap magic done to make Smith fit.  Maybe a few other players involved plus salary retention?  I can't see the Predators being interested in Sutter but hey, there's a country music connection (as irrelevant as that might be...).

[PhillipBlunt]

25 minutes ago, mll said:

In 16 drafts - from their inception in 1998 to 2013 when they drafted Jones, Nashville has a draft success rate for Ds of 20%.  

 

They found 10 Ds out of 49 picks.  They are only 67% in the 1st round with 4 out of 6 picks.  43% in the 2nd round - 3 out of 7 picks.  Only found 3 in the later rounds on 36 picks - one being Franson who was out of the league at 30.  

 

They did find Fabbro and Girard in 2016.   

 

 

Regardless of the % on the picks, four (if not five depending on how you view Ellis) of the 10 defensemen are considered elite, cornerstone defensemen. That's pretty amazing.

 

The other 30 teams in the league would give a king's ransom for Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, Roman Josi, and Seth Jones (in their primes, obviously).

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, RonMexico said:

Wasn't too long ago Poile was at the top of the GM pile until he traded Weber for Subban and the castle walls crumbled.

Very true. That was a move that probably didn't need to be made. Weber has proven to be the better, more durable defenseman, and leader over time. Shea would have probably happily retired a Predator.

5 minutes ago, RonMexico said:

His empire was built from the net out. Problem being, he never brought in enough offence. The team has never had a true number one line. 

And the offence he did bring in, suffers from both inconsistency and a lack of physicality, especially in the playoffs. Having the likes of Weber (and Suter) made the opposition honest, but now?

[laddie]

6 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

The Predators look like they have about $1.9M in cap room so they could be sellers while reducing taking or retaining salary.

 

I'm not sold on Mikael Granlund.  His performance since being traded has left a lot to be desired and his cap hit, even if it's just for one-year, is quite high.  He might do better in a different setting but I don't think the Canucks will be in on him.  I would expect a player like Fabbro to be relatively untouchable.

 

I could, however, see the Canucks having interest in a player like Craig Smith.  He's a 30-year old versatile middle-6 forward on an expiring contract ($4.25M) who can play C and W.  He appears to be decent at both ends of the ice and has only missed the 20-goal mark once since 2013-2014.  I'd expect the cost of acquiring him to be less than Granlund (based mostly on Granlund's past history rather than his recent performance) but it might still be relatively costly.  Hard to see exactly how he fits however though below is one possibility:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Smith

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Ferland-Beagle-Motte

Eriksson

 

I assume Baertschi would have to be involved but there would need to be some other cap magic done to make Smith fit.  Maybe a few other players involved plus salary retention?  I can't see the Predators being interested in Sutter but hey, there's a country music connection (as irrelevant as that might be...).

Both Smith and Granlund are on expiring contracts and both players can play centre and wing.  Why go after a 30 year old Smith whose best year was in 2013 when you can go after a 27 year old Granlund with a higher ceiling? Plus as a pending free agent we get to potentially sign him to a team friendly contract because of his one bad year in Nashville.

[Pears]

1 hour ago, N7Nucks said:

Nashville reminds me of my EA teams, loaded with talent but don't sim well. Lol. Granlund is interesting. Arvidsson would be a great RW option to round out Bo and Pearson. Doubt they move on from him though. Friendly contract, all heart player. Subban may be a bit of a joke in some eyes but he was a pretty big loss for Nashville. He ate minutes on that blueline and expecting a young rookie to fill those shoes is a tough ask.

 

I'd negotiate hard for Arvidsson, maybe Forsberg but that's a huge ask and they'd be fools to move him. Arvidsson is really what I hope Hoglander can become. Undersized but has lots of heart and talent. Can play either wing but being right handed he'd fit nicely with the 2nd line imo.

Arvidsson would be incredible and someone I would be ok with paying a pretty penny for. I’d imagine they’d ask for a package around Höglander and Madden and tbh, I’d probably do it. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Pears

[mll]

32 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Regardless of the % on the picks, four (if not five depending on how you view Ellis) of the 10 defensemen are considered elite, cornerstone defensemen. That's pretty amazing.

 

The other 30 teams in the league would give a king's ransom for Shea Weber, Ryan Suter, Roman Josi, and Seth Jones (in their primes, obviously).

For sure it's impressive.   There's also Girard who Colorado feel is on his way to be a top D in the league.  He is playing against the top lines for Colorado.  He was the 2nd best D in zone exits with possession - only Josi did better last season.  

 

They are still hard to find though.  So I really don't think Poile is willing to move Josi, Ellis, Ekholm or Fabbro.  Before making that deal for Turris he tried really hard to get Duchene out of Colorado but refused to move one of their top-4 Ds.  This summer he said he moved Subban because they had Fabbro and wouldn't have traded him otherwise.  

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by mll

[mll]

12 minutes ago, Pears said:

Arvidsson would be incredible and someone I would be ok with paying a pretty penny for. I’d imagine they’d ask for a package around Höglander and Madden and tbh, I’d probably do it. 

Doubt it.   Nashville is looking to compete now and Arvidsson is a core player signed to a team friendly deal - 4M for a 30 goal scorer for another 4 years.  They have no reason to move him for unknowns.  It limits their window.  

 

Nashville drafted Tolvanen in the 1st round who was getting all those accolades yet he has struggled to adjust to the pro-league.  Regardless of how good some players look in other leagues it's not the NHL.  Arvidsson is young, proven and signed cheap.  

 

[mll]

47 minutes ago, EternalCanuckFan said:

The Predators look like they have about $1.9M in cap room so they could be sellers while reducing taking or retaining salary.

 

I'm not sold on Mikael Granlund.  His performance since being traded has left a lot to be desired and his cap hit, even if it's just for one-year, is quite high.  He might do better in a different setting but I don't think the Canucks will be in on him.  I would expect a player like Fabbro to be relatively untouchable.

 

I could, however, see the Canucks having interest in a player like Craig Smith.  He's a 30-year old versatile middle-6 forward on an expiring contract ($4.25M) who can play C and W.  He appears to be decent at both ends of the ice and has only missed the 20-goal mark once since 2013-2014.  I'd expect the cost of acquiring him to be less than Granlund (based mostly on Granlund's past history rather than his recent performance) but it might still be relatively costly.  Hard to see exactly how he fits however though below is one possibility:

 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Pearson-Horvat-Smith

Roussel-Gaudette-Virtanen

Ferland-Beagle-Motte

Eriksson

 

I assume Baertschi would have to be involved but there would need to be some other cap magic done to make Smith fit.  Maybe a few other players involved plus salary retention?  I can't see the Predators being interested in Sutter but hey, there's a country music connection (as irrelevant as that might be...).

 

Media says that Poile has never ever retained salary.  He said he traded Subban to NJD because they were the only team willing to take the full salary.  He might retain on an upcoming UFA but I doubt he'd take a cap dump with term in return.  It would limit their cap space for next season and Poile has talked about how it's important for him to have cap flexibility.  

 

For now CapFriendly shows the Canucks with 30K in cap space to cover the bonuses for Pettersson and Hughes.  Ferland should come off LTIR soon  - it will give a better idea of how much cap they really have to make a move.  He needs to come off LTIR but it's probably going to still be insufficient to cover all the bonuses this season.  They can't add without moving a contract out.  Nashville is unlikely to take term as it limits them for next season.  

 

[Nucker 67]

22 minutes ago, Pears said:

Arvidsson would be incredible and someone I would be ok with paying a pretty penny for. I’d imagine they’d ask for a package around Höglander and Madden and tbh, I’d probably do it. 

Arvidsson would be great, but I'd be hesitant to trade Hog.

 

to VAN: Arvidsson and a 3rd

to NSH - Boeser

 

Boeser is 4 years younger, and I'd say produces a fraction more per game than Viktor.

 

 

[GhostsOf1994]

This is what happens when you sign or acquire players with known attitude issues.

 

Johansen, Duchene, Subban, Ekholm, Turris, even bonino can be depressing at times.

 

Edit

 

There is no way another granlund suits up for the canucks unless he's over 6"2 and shoots right.

 

Only 2 or 3 players on that roster i would want.

 

Roman Josi

Filip Forsberg 

Dante Fabbro

 

But the price would be astronomically high for any of them.

Edited January 7, 2020 by GhostsOf1994
Shrimps

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, N7Nucks said:

Nashville reminds me of my EA teams, loaded with talent but don't sim well. Lol. Granlund is interesting. Arvidsson would be a great RW option to round out Bo and Pearson. Doubt they move on from him though. Friendly contract, all heart player. Subban may be a bit of a joke in some eyes but he was a pretty big loss for Nashville. He ate minutes on that blueline and expecting a young rookie to fill those shoes is a tough ask.

 

I'd negotiate hard for Arvidsson, maybe Forsberg but that's a huge ask and they'd be fools to move him. Arvidsson is really what I hope Hoglander can become. Undersized but has lots of heart and talent. Can play either wing but being right handed he'd fit nicely with the 2nd line imo.

I read a well thought out article comparing Weber and Subbans trade and what team got the better player.  It was an eye opener - Weber blew him out of the water in practically every catagory.   The only thing that was close was overall offense.  Some things couldn't even be compared - Subban wasn't on the PK for example and Weber always played against the best on the world (match-ups) where as Subban was matched up to chumps mostly (huge gap in quality of opposition).  Nashville was smart to dump him and his huge contract when they did, even though they had no real choice given cap constraints.   His time in NJ is really exposing him against better players again and to think at the time most thought MTL was crazy making that trade - they've definitely won it even with the age difference.   Nobody has parlayed more from one good and one great season as Subban.

[Pears]

15 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Arvidsson would be great, but I'd be hesitant to trade Hog.

 

to VAN: Arvidsson and a 3rd

to NSH - Boeser

 

Boeser is 4 years younger, and I'd say produces a fraction more per game than Viktor.

 

 

That’s a backwards move imo. I don’t want to trade Höglander either but for a legitimate top six forward or top four RD I’d strongly think about it. 

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Arvidsson would be great, but I'd be hesitant to trade Hog.

 

to VAN: Arvidsson and a 3rd

to NSH - Boeser

 

Boeser is 4 years younger, and I'd say produces a fraction more per game than Viktor.

 

 

  No.   No.  No. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by IBatch

[IBatch]

14 minutes ago, Pears said:

That’s a backwards move imo. I don’t want to trade Höglander either but for a legitimate top six forward or top four RD I’d strongly think about it. 

Doubtful we'd regret that trade.  Doubtful NSH would do it too.

[Gurn]

People might want to wait till Shea Weber's contract is over before declaring a winner. Guy will be 40 in 2025/26 making $7,857,143

P.K.'s contract ends  after the 21/22 season, he will be 32 and getting $9 mill a year.