[Proposal] (Trade) better now and in the future. Van trades to help add leadership and grit

[RowdyCanuck]

1 hour ago, Kanukfanatic said:

Your proposal belongs in a video game.

 

If you don't know why I will explain it to you:

 

1. You do not take the other teams into consideration of what their needs are at all.

2. You just throw names around like Risto and Weber like those teams are just going to magically give up what the Canucks want for whatever we are gracious enough to give them.

3. You propose three large trades....please tell us when the last time one team made three major trades in a short period of time.

4.  Pretty sure you did not consider the cap at all.

 

etc.....

 

 

 

Gracious to give them? You don't think Brock and demko get you ristlo+? Or maybe Montreal would like the idea of add a younger mean d man, which don't come on the market often and Nashville i went from public knowledge and made a good case as to why Nashville would atleast consider it and what I offered would probably be the starting of the conversation atleast. 

Other teams needs? Like Buffalo getting Brock helps them and so does demko , do they not? Also Buffalo can afford to trade ristlo and Dylan cozins cause they are already flush with young talent and their fans would like to see playoff hockey again......

Montreal gets a lil younger and ristlo actually fits their team better over the long term.( I will agree that I was off on that deal, where ristlo and breezer for Shea Weber makes more sense now)

Nashville I went off that interview where Pollie wants picks. Also Nashville could pick between cozins or OJ , pretty fair off the info given to the public.

actually this would probably go down as a three team trade , which does happen. How many teams add a top four D and top six winger at the deadlines.....

a lot of moving  pieces yes but isn't uncommon, the way I did the trade separate doesn't mean they would go down that way....

bigger trades have became more common Ottawa has made what , two three team trades but your right but block buster trades do happen....  

 

Why because I didn't write the numbers? 

It works for the Canucks cap and you forgetting the other teams cap is their problem.....

Buffalos cap=They would move out 6.73 million that's using Ullmark (1.33 million) and his cheaper then carter huttons 2.75 million( ristlo makes 5.4 million , adding Brock and demko would add 6.95 million. So if the Canucks take Hutton it works. 

montreals cap=doesn't matter they have lots of room. 

Also I said move tanev ,leivo and others for picks and it's not like I'm out to lunch by saying tanev + is worth a low first am I? 

your right this will probably never happen but to say that b.s , now look at who should put down the bong.....

[mll]

7 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Why you think he wants picks? 

Picks make bringing in new talent a lot easier and pollie knows this and that's why his looking for picks, I agree it would take a steep price to get forsberg but his Worth it.

If the team is not heading to the playoffs there's no reason to hang on to guys who are going to walk in the summer.  He's not going to get a proven impact player for upcoming UFAs - so it's a trade for picks or prospects.    It creates cap flexibility to add UFAs in the off-season.  Taylor Hall is likely going to test the market and would look like someone Poile would want to go after and Hall really liked Hynes as coach.  

 

Forsberg is not a UFA.  He's a core player on a great contract.  Trading him for a bunch of lesser pieces would only weaken their team when their window is now.  On the Canucks the only player that would be an upgrade over Forsberg is Pettersson.  

 

If Poile decides to trade Forsberg it would likely be in a 1 for 1 change of scenery type deal - à la Johansen for Jones, Weber for Subban.  Value for value.  Anything else doesn't help the team's window.  

 

He was talking of how all their players are in their prime.  Unless it's Lafrenière the picks will take too long to develop to take advantage of the prime of their core players.   They drafted Tolvanen with their 1st in 2017 - he's nowhere close to ready.  Poile traded a 1st for Hartman talking of how late picks are unknowns and doesn't fit their window.  He then traded Hartman and a pick in another win now move to get Simmonds.  He also did Fiala for Granlund who he saw as a better fit for their window although he thinks Fiala could end up the better player.  

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by mll

[RowdyCanuck]

6 hours ago, mll said:

If the team is not heading to the playoffs there's no reason to hang on to guys who are going to walk in the summer.  He's not going to get a proven impact player for upcoming UFAs - so it's a trade for picks or prospects.    It creates cap flexibility to add UFAs in the off-season.  Taylor Hall is likely going to test the market and would look like someone Poile would want to go after and Hall really liked Hynes as coach.  

 

Forsberg is not a UFA.  He's a core player on a great contract.  Trading him for a bunch of lesser pieces would only weaken their team when their window is now.  On the Canucks the only player that would be an upgrade over Forsberg is Pettersson.  

 

If Poile decides to trade Forsberg it would likely be in a 1 for 1 change of scenery type deal - à la Johansen for Jones, Weber for Subban.  Value for value.  Anything else doesn't help the team's window.  

 

He was talking of how all their players are in their prime.  Unless it's Lafrenière the picks will take too long to develop to take advantage of the prime of their core players.   They drafted Tolvanen with their 1st in 2017 - he's nowhere close to ready.  Poile traded a 1st for Hartman talking of how late picks are unknowns and doesn't fit their window.  He then traded Hartman and a pick in another win now move to get Simmonds.  He also did Fiala for Granlund who he saw as a better fit for their window although he thinks Fiala could end up the better player.  

 

You made some good points but I could also make a case , they trade Forsberg(go after Taylor hall in the summer and look at what they added....

also taylor wants to win and Nashville gives a pretty steady open window. 

I can make a debate as to why it would work or even give you different angles you can look at this trade. 

Also trade Forsberg and add Oj or Cozins and Taylor hall, they could afford to pay someone to take Kyle Turris too. 

 

 

[mll]

54 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

You made some good points but I could also make a case , they trade Forsberg(go after Taylor hall in the summer and look at what they added....

also taylor wants to win and Nashville gives a pretty steady open window. 

I can make a debate as to why it would work or even give you different angles you can look at this trade. 

Also trade Forsberg and add Oj or Cozins and Taylor hall, they could afford to pay someone to take Kyle Turris too. 

 

 

Their lineup is far better with both Forsberg and Hall especially as they want to win now.   Getting Hall or another top-6 UFA allows to drop Jarnkrok to the bottom-6.  Granlund is probably not extended as he hasn't been able to produce in Laviolette's system but who knows how he does under Hynes.  

 

Moving Forsberg would leave them with only Arvidsson as legit top-6 winger.   There's no guarantee they can get Hall.  Forsberg and Arvidsson are their only top-6 wingers beyond this season and both are 1st liners and 30 goal scorers at 10M combined.  Can't get these kind of players at that price on the open market.  

 

OJ is of no use to them with their top-4 already set for years to come - he's also not NHL ready.  Cozens does nothing for their window either.  Poile traded Fiala who already had a 23 goal season (48 points) because he didn't think he was consistent enough and still needed more development time.  At the trade he made the bet that Fiala would become a 30 goal scorer, and was quoted saying that he could end up the better player but that Granlund is a better fit for their window.

 

Turris is a 2M buyout cap hit - lengthy term but 2M against the cap is manageable.  They are better off trying to make it work.  Turris got himself in Laviolette's dog house but he might find a spot in Hynes lineup and can still be a good player for Nashville.  

 

Edited January 12, 2020 by mll

[RowdyCanuck]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Their lineup is far better with both Forsberg and Hall especially as they want to win now.   Getting Hall or another top-6 UFA allows to drop Jarnkrok to the bottom-6.  Granlund is probably not extended as he hasn't been able to produce in Laviolette's system but who knows how he does under Hynes.  

 

Moving Forsberg would leave them with only Arvidsson as legit top-6 winger.   There's no guarantee they can get Hall.  Forsberg and Arvidsson are their only top-6 wingers beyond this season and both are 1st liners and 30 goal scorers at 10M combined.  Can't get these kind of players at that price on the open market.  

 

OJ is of no use to them with their top-4 already set for years to come - he's also not NHL ready.  Cozens does nothing for their window either.  Poile traded Fiala who already had a 23 goal season (48 points) because he didn't think he was consistent enough and still needed more development time.  At the trade he made the bet that Fiala would become a 30 goal scorer, and was quoted saying that he could end up the better player but that Granlund is a better fit for their window.

 

Turris is a 2M buyout cap hit - lengthy term but 2M against the cap is manageable.  They are better off trying to make it work.  Turris got himself in Laviolette's dog house but he might find a spot in Hynes lineup and can still be a good player for Nashville.  

 

You make good points but I could also say yea trading Forsberg is a risk but to tank one season.(get a high draft pick, that might be able to help sooner or you can move for faster help would be for the best, same theory could be used with the picks and prospects we send Nashville)

also the Preds would be the perfect place for Hall cause like you said their window is open now and Hall wants to win. 

I agree losing Forsberg would hurt but like I stated the added peices would make them a deeper team and better next season and the seasons to come. 

 

So you don't think cozins could play on their third line next year as a winger? Or Could Cozins be a player they could move for a player they really want.....same goes for OJ, other then playing on the third line. 

Also  Fiala isn't the same type of player as cozins,Granland  and Fiala are similar players but Cozins could be a good add to a contending team. ( big body and all)

 

your right that 2 million buyout is actually kinda nice , if you have owners that will back that move, that's a lot of money and not all owners spend like ours ha. 

But why buy him out if you can move him and open up what 13 million....that would be enough to add hall and say another cheaper top six forward..... That's not counting the ufa money they open up at the end of the season too. 

 

Also if they bring in hall, they probably be trading Forsberg before his next contract anyways....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mll]

25 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

You make good points but I could also say yea trading Forsberg is a risk but to tank one season.(get a high draft pick, that might be able to help sooner or you can move for faster help would be for the best, same theory could be used with the picks and prospects we send Nashville)

also the Preds would be the perfect place for Hall cause like you said their window is open now and Hall wants to win. 

I agree losing Forsberg would hurt but like I stated the added peices would make them a deeper team and better next season and the seasons to come. 

 

So you don't think cozins could play on their third line next year as a winger? Or Could Cozins be a player they could move for a player they really want.....same goes for OJ, other then playing on the third line. 

Also  Fiala isn't the same type of player as cozins,Granland  and Fiala are similar players but Cozins could be a good add to a contending team. ( big body and all)

 

your right that 2 million buyout is actually kinda nice , if you have owners that will back that move, that's a lot of money and not all owners spend like ours ha. 

But why buy him out if you can move him and open up what 13 million....that would be enough to add hall and say another cheaper top six forward..... That's not counting the ufa money they open up at the end of the season too. 

 

Also if they bring in hall, they probably be trading Forsberg before his next contract anyways....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For Poile development is in Milwaukee and not in the NHL.  He always says that the road to Nashville goes through Milwaukee - nearly everyone spent time there before making the team.  The only recent exceptions were Jones because he was not AHL eligible and Smith who was an older NCAA player and Fabbro.   Even Arvidsson, who was drafted in 2014 although already draft eligible in 2011 (he's 26 now), spent a full season in the AHL before becoming a full time player.  

There are 4 top-6 winger spots and if they can make it work cap wise - no reason to weaken the team unnecessarily.  

 

 

[RowdyCanuck]

40 minutes ago, mll said:

For Poile development is in Milwaukee and not in the NHL.  He always says that the road to Nashville goes through Milwaukee - nearly everyone spent time there before making the team.  The only recent exceptions were Jones because he was not AHL eligible and Smith who was an older NCAA player and Fabbro.   Even Arvidsson, who was drafted in 2014 although already draft eligible in 2011 (he's 26 now), spent a full season in the AHL before becoming a full time player.  

There are 4 top-6 winger spots and if they can make it work cap wise - no reason to weaken the team unnecessarily.  

 

 

I think it depends on how much of a shake up they want...

thats the deciding factor for both theories.

Edit* your right about the ahl but the preds have been picking low for awhile, a lot of higher picks now take about year before the jump....acouple examples are petey and Hughes and if they get a top five pick and Pick either swede , they are picking a play that has already played against men and could push for a spot next year. 

Edited January 12, 2020 by RowdyCanuck

[Seannnp]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 1:44 PM, RowdyCanuck said:

Well problem with that is ristlo and Myers play the same style and need a more stay a home d partner like elder. 

Hughes is the future and we need a mean right handed D man to play with Hughes , like I said in theory that's almost perfect pairing , balance wise. 

Also Weber is good cause his cost controlled and the way he plays when his cap hit becomes a problem he will problem go on Ltir. 

Why against trading Brock ? I would say Forsberg is an up grade( forsberg can skate)

also Forsberg is cost controlled too.

buffalo is closer to minnie isn't it?

I disagree that Forsberg is better than Brock. Brock now, arguable has a more complete game and has 43 points in 46 games. Also, don't think Forsberg is all that much "cost controlled". He has a cap hit of 6 mill for two more seasons. Not much of a difference between the two when talking about contracts.  

 

I don't understand the need/desire to trade Boeser. He has 43 points in 46 games. He has chemistry with Miller, Petterson, and Horvat allowing him to move between the top lines. We don't really have an over abundance of PPG wingers on this team. Some of you are putting way too much stock in to Hoglander and Podkolzin.

 

The only thing I would trade Boeser for is a young top pairing dman, otherwise Im keeping him for the long haul.

 

Also HELL NO to trading Pearson. He is on pace for 60 points, plays well with Horvat, has the ability to play physical and has a caphit of 3.75 for one more year.

 

 

Keep BOESER

Keep PEARSON

Keep VIRTANEN

 

If you want to move someone move Sutter, Baertschi, Goldobin, Leivo, MacEwan, etc.

 

[RowdyCanuck]

17 minutes ago, Seannnp said:

I disagree that Forsberg is better than Brock. Brock now, arguable has a more complete game and has 43 points in 46 games. Also, don't think Forsberg is all that much "cost controlled". He has a cap hit of 6 mill for two more seasons. Not much of a difference between the two when talking about contracts.  

 

I don't understand the need/desire to trade Boeser. He has 43 points in 46 games. He has chemistry with Miller, Petterson, and Horvat allowing him to move between the top lines. We don't really have an over abundance of PPG wingers on this team. Some of you are putting way too much stock in to Hoglander and Podkolzin.

 

The only thing I would trade Boeser for is a young top pairing dman, otherwise Im keeping him for the long haul.

 

Also HELL NO to trading Pearson. He is on pace for 60 points, plays well with Horvat, has the ability to play physical and has a caphit of 3.75 for one more year.

 

 

Keep BOESER

Keep PEARSON

Keep VIRTANEN

 

If you want to move someone move Sutter, Baertschi, Goldobin, Leivo, MacEwan, etc.

 

Where did I say Jake?! 

Also I've already covered why trade Brock , we can agree to disagree on forsberg being cost controlled cause yes forsbergs contract is over at the same time but Brock's next contract starts at 8 million doesn't it? Forsberg's older yes and maybe playing with Petey to finish his career would make him think about a small raise instead of a big one.... 

I've made my cases pretty clear why I would do it, just go read threw the posts......

 

[BigTramFan]

So hang on...you're saying we trade the following:

 

Demko + Boeser + Eriksson + Brisebois  

 

to end up with;

 

Forsberg + Weber + C Hutton + a 2nd round pick

 

Cmon bro, waaaaaay off on value! There's just no way that's gonna happen!

 

[wildcam]

On January 11, 2020 at 4:18 PM, Chickenspear said:

Granted, I don't really see Forsberg play that much, but I'm not convinced Forsberg is an upgrade on Boeser, tbh... similar ppg, but Forsberg is 3 years older, and weren't we trying to get younger? Petey and Boeser already have chemistry, especially with Millsy on their line. Forsberg... not sure if would it be worth the risk, just from unknown line chemistry standpoint, and I don't think Benning would be willing to move a piece like Boeser.

 

Weber over Tanev? Yeah, but he's a UFA after this season, I don't really think he's getting much of a raise (likely make less, if anything) or a NMC/NTC, and we'd probably have to give up something we have for our future to get Weber. Not a fan of Weber's pricetag either (though the same could be said of a couple of our current D). Same point as above with the age difference too. 

 

Weber is 34 years old making 7.8 million x 6 more years???? Big no and be realistic Vancouver is not interested in trading for guys over 29 along with 6 more years at 7.8 million...

Vancouver would never want him cap hit way to much..Big no to any Weber talks..

Up against cap now and we have young players to sign so any extra cap space will be to sign stars here..

Players to sign soon..

Markstrom 29-- 4 yrs x 5.5 million --will have to have clause in new deal for expansion draft with Seattle as we have Demko to decide on..

Big Jake 22 -- 4 yrs x 3.2 million ? Team will have big decision, Jake should hit 20 goal mark so money comes with this..

Pettersson - soon will be in 9 million range summer 2021 lockup this star

Hughes - Soon will be signing for 5.5 range 2021

Tanev 30, might trade has to be resigned? 4.8 x 5 years..

Stetcher -- I can see Stetcher being traded in package... Will demand at least 3.5 x 5 yrs...

Jim has big decisions to make as we can't resign all the players... We need cap space but we do have prospect close to taking NHL jobs soon... Players NHL ready soon, Rafferty,D  Juolevi,D  MacEwen,  Brisebois,, Podkolzin 19,( March 21), Hoglander, Madden, Lind,  Woo

The future is bright and very exciting..

Lets stay on path and not make any stupid trades giving up young prospect..

Liked the Miller trade, guys been top 2 forward and still young 26 years old..

Edited January 14, 2020 by wildcam

[Gawdzukes]

On 1/11/2020 at 3:06 PM, qwijibo said:

Why in world would Montreal make that trade? Weber (with money retained no less) and a 2nd (which will be high) 

 

for a huge cap dump, Ristolanin and an ok prospect? 

Indeed. Who in their right mind would do that? No, not even Bergevin.

[qwijibo]

12 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

Indeed. Who in their right mind would do that? No, not even Bergevin.

I’m not a big fan of Bergevin. He’s had a number of missteps. But he’s made a few really good moves 

 

Domi for Galchenyuk is a home run clear cut win 

Weber for Subban is looking like a big win in retrospect

Danault and a 2nd (Romanov) for Flieshman and Weise is a massive win 

Signing Radulov out of the KHL was a great (losing him to Dallas after a year. Huge loss) 

 

i don’t like him. But he’s not the total train wreck some people make him out to be 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

I’m not a big fan of Bergevin. He’s had a number of missteps. But he’s made a few really good moves 

 

Domi for Galchenyuk is a home run clear cut win 

Weber for Subban is looking like a big win in retrospect

Danault and a 2nd (Romanov) for Flieshman and Weise is a massive win 

Signing Radulov out of the KHL was a great (losing him to Dallas after a year. Huge loss) 

 

i don’t like him. But he’s not the total train wreck some people make him out to be 

 

 

True. Kovalchuk even got the winner the other day. 

[Chickenspear]

3 hours ago, wildcam said:

Weber is 34 years old making 7.8 million x 6 more years???? Big no and be realistic Vancouver is not interested in trading for guys over 29 along with 6 more years at 7.8 million...

Vancouver would never want him cap hit way to much..Big no to any Weber talks..

Up against cap now and we have young players to sign so any extra cap space will be to sign stars here..

Players to sign soon..

Markstrom 29-- 4 yrs x 5.5 million --will have to have clause in new deal for expansion draft with Seattle as we have Demko to decide on..

Big Jake 22 -- 4 yrs x 3.2 million ? Team will have big decision, Jake should hit 20 goal mark so money comes with this..

Pettersson - soon will be in 9 million range summer 2021 lockup this star

Hughes - Soon will be signing for 5.5 range 2021

Tanev 30, might trade has to be resigned? 4.8 x 5 years..

Stetcher -- I can see Stetcher being traded in package... Will demand at least 3.5 x 5 yrs...

Jim has big decisions to make as we can't resign all the players... We need cap space but we do have prospect close to taking NHL jobs soon... Players NHL ready soon, Rafferty,D  Juolevi,D  MacEwen,  Brisebois,, Podkolzin 19,( March 21), Hoglander, Madden, Lind,  Woo

The future is bright and very exciting..

Lets stay on path and not make any stupid trades giving up young prospect..

Liked the Miller trade, guys been top 2 forward and still young 26 years old..

I'm not sure if you really read (any) of my posts in this thread...