Fire Green!

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

For myself I see us as either having a crappy team, that Green’s coaching has kept us on the edge of the playoffs, or we have a good team, and Green’s coaching has held us down to just being on the edge of the playoffs.  I see us as a good team.  Why any Canuck’s fan would see us as a crappy team is beyond my understanding.  

So, Green should be fired.  

If that were the case though, then a coach like Quenneville could be seen momentarily as a good coach and then a bad coach in subsequent years, or maybe Quenneville just had a good team when he won cups. Perhaps every coach that wins the cup just rides with the team if that's where we're going with this. It's seemingly just basing things on "gut feelings" without really any reason beyond that, or which I don't see the logic at that point.

 

Personally, I see us as a developing team. We are good in some aspects, but need work in other aspects. Namely, we have all the offense we could want but our defense sorely needs work. Markstrom's injury literally put on display our holes in our defence and just how out of position our defense is. Perhaps it's a Green issue, but given who we have playing defense, I think it's more of a GM issue than anything and Green just has who he has to work with.

 

I think we need a couple more years before deciding on Green. We need to see this team as it develops and see if he's our guy in the playoffs first because, to me, that's the true test of a coach. Do we end up with a Coach Berube (winning the cup) or a Coach Cooper (winning the president's trophy and then exiting 1st round)?

[189lb enforcers?]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

For myself I see us as either having a crappy team, that Green’s coaching has kept us on the edge of the playoffs, or we have a good team, and Green’s coaching has held us down to just being on the edge of the playoffs.  I see us as a good team.  Why any Canuck’s fan would see us as a crappy team is beyond my understanding.  

So, Green should be fired.  

I also thought that we had a good team this season, but it seemed lost for most of it, despite winning. 

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

All reasonable comments, of course. 

FTR, I am not seeking to have Greener removed, though I wouldn’t bat an eye if he were. I have criticized some aspects of his systems or deployment, but I’m actually a fan of his basic 2-1-2 forecheck and no some much of the gap that shows up when the D first look to transition the puck. 

 

I’m surprised that Greene was in the running for the Adams, shocked even. I don’t vote him in there, nor is it up to me to explain why I think he is the best in the league. That onus is on those holding him in such high regard. 
 

Personally, my vote would go to Torts. 
 

No question about it, he’s squeezed more from less and survived much more than Greene had to this season, let alone beginning with less. I’d put Greener mod pack at best. 

And certainly there's nothing wrong with thinking another coach was better. There's 31 coaches in this league and being the best is tough. Personally, I'm not that surprised on Green making it. I look at a team like Edmonton and see how long they took being bottom feeders and, at the very least, I feel like we've avoided that for the most part (and with no 1st overalls.... or even 1st to 4th overalls....). I do think that part of it is Green in the end as clearly there's a comradery in the room. Sure, the players also have to do with that, but so does the coach.

 

Admittedly, I didn't get as much of a chance to watch hockey this season given I'm in 4th year university, but following things, there seems to be a few coaches that could have been mentioned really.

[The Lock]

5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I also thought that we had a good team this season, but it seemed lost for most of it, despite winning. 

I call that a young team that's learning more than anything, although Green does tend to let the offense "run more free" than perhaps we're used to seeing from previous coaches? That might also be a factor.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, The Lock said:

If that were the case though, then a coach like Quenneville could be seen momentarily as a good coach and then a bad coach in subsequent years, or maybe Quenneville just had a good team when he won cups. Perhaps every coach that wins the cup just rides with the team if that's where we're going with this. It's seemingly just basing things on "gut feelings" without really any reason beyond that, or which I don't see the logic at that point.

 

Personally, I see us as a developing team. We are good in some aspects, but need work in other aspects. Namely, we have all the offense we could want but our defense sorely needs work. Markstrom's injury literally put on display our holes in our defence and just how out of position our defense is. Perhaps it's a Green issue, but given who we have playing defense, I think it's more of a GM issue than anything and Green just has who he has to work with.

 

I think we need a couple more years before deciding on Green. We need to see this team as it develops and see if he's our guy in the playoffs first because, to me, that's the true test of a coach. Do we end up with a Coach Berube (winning the cup) or a Coach Cooper (winning the president's trophy and then exiting 1st round)?

Our team deserved a coach who was developed, and not simply developing.  I’m very much hoping for is to fire Green and hire Babcock.  Our top young players would love to have a tough and arrogant SOB leading them.  

[189lb enforcers?]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

And certainly there's nothing wrong with thinking another coach was better. There's 31 coaches in this league and being the best is tough. Personally, I'm not that surprised on Green making it. I look at a team like Edmonton and see how long they took being bottom feeders and, at the very least, I feel like we've avoided that for the most part (and with no 1st overalls.... or even 1st to 4th overalls....). I do think that part of it is Green in the end as clearly there's a comradery in the room. Sure, the players also have to do with that, but so does the coach.

 

Admittedly, I didn't get as much of a chance to watch hockey this season given I'm in 4th year university, but following things, there seems to be a few coaches that could have been mentioned really.

Sorry if your university classes are cancelled, etc.

[189lb enforcers?]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Our team deserved a coach who was developed, and not simply developing.  I’m very much hoping for is to fire Green and hire Babcock.  Our top young players would love to have a tough and arrogant SOB leading them.  

I wish Greene had the Canucks playing as hard as he did as a player. 
Quality, character guy. 

[The Lock]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Our team deserved a coach who was developed, and not simply developing.  I’m very much hoping for is to fire Green and hire Babcock.  Our top young players would love to have a tough and arrogant SOB leading them.  

Except Babcock was not exactly liked by the players in Toronto. There are multiple reports out there that came out after he was fired. If you're a coach being hard on players, that's fine and all provided you earn their respect at the same time. However, he wasn't earning that respect. That's a problem in itself. In my opinion Babcock might be the most overhyped and overrated coach in this league. You talk about coaches riding a good team? That's a possible prime example (albeit I don't know what he actually was like in Detroit). lol

Edited March 18, 2020 by The Lock

[The Lock]

8 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Sorry if your university classes are cancelled, etc.

They're not cancelled at least, but they're definitely different. Most things will be online now for a month it seems with the possibility of a couple of classes being done remotely through video. It's weird.

 

On the other hand, I am now actively looking for work so at least I have more time for that. So if anyone is looking for a computer science major with a minor in geographical information systems... lol (shameless plug ;))

[lmm]

7 minutes ago, The Lock said:

Except Babcock was not exactly liked by the players in Toronto. There are multiple reports out there that came out after he was fired. If you're a coach being hard on players, that's fine and all provided you earn their respect at the same time. However, he wasn't earning that respect. That's a problem in itself. In my opinion Babcock might be the most overhyped and overrated coach in this league. You talk about coaches riding a good team? That's a possible prime example (albeit I don't know what he actually was like in Detroit). lol

Babcock is a funny case though. 

For a long time he was in near Bowman status, probably over-hyped, then he gets "Me-tooed" in the Peters/Crawford mess, but never really gets anything proven against him, over-hyped in the opposite direction. Then you look at Toronto and you think, 'wow, these guys don't want to play the right way'.

I would think Babcock is reasonably close to Torts in that he can ask for a lot and if you give it to him he will go to the wall for you.

how different is Babcock's leaving TO than Torts leaving Vancouver?

Torts is still a good coach and can do a lot with a weak team, but he scares guys like Panarin out of tow, and Willie Ny hated Babs.

I think the teams these guys want to coach will go farther than the current Maple Leafs roster under any other coach

[Alflives]

18 minutes ago, The Lock said:

They're not cancelled at least, but they're definitely different. Most things will be online now for a month it seems with the possibility of a couple of classes being done remotely through video. It's weird.

 

On the other hand, I am now actively looking for work so at least I have more time for that. So if anyone is looking for a computer science major with a minor in geographical information systems... lol (shameless plug ;))

Considering your professors are likely older, and in the high risk group for suffering the worst from this virus, I can understand why classes would be cancelled or on-line.  It’s you young and healthy students who are at virtually no risk, but (It seems) are carriers.  

Oh, and fire Green!  

[erkayloomeh]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:40 PM, wallstreetamigo said:

I don't think many people truly believed last summer that the Canucks would be any further ahead than where they are right now. 

True.

But I don't think anyone believed Miller would be as good as he has.

I dont think anyone thought Hughes Would be as good as he has.

Markstrom? Pearson?  

With those players contributions being over and above what was expected, we are behind where we should be as far as I'm concerned.  

Do you think 5 more wins than what we had last year is enough of an improvement over last year given Hughes and Miller alone? 

That's what we were on pace for. 

[Angry Goose]

6 hours ago, lmm said:

Greens capability as a coach has everything to do with mistakes he makes behind the bench.

the reasoning for those mistakes are possibly/likely because of inexperience.

Kushman is supporting his arguement with fact

you are trying to twist his words

do you even have a point to make , or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

You're not necessarily correct, and neither is kushman.  You're weighing 'nhl coaching inexperience' strongly as if it must have bearing on Green's coaching capability.  I didn't rule out the possibility that maybe it could have an impact, but if I'm hazarding a guess I'd say it's unlikely given Green's NHL background and coaching experience.  That seems like the more reasonable position IMO.

 

Whatever "mistakes" you're referring to I'm not familiar with either.  

 

 

 

 

[lmm]

19 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

You're not necessarily correct, and neither is kushman.  You're weighing 'nhl coaching inexperience' strongly as if it must have bearing on Green's coaching capability.  I didn't rule out the possibility that maybe it could have an impact, but if I'm hazarding a guess I'd say it's unlikely given Green's NHL background and coaching experience.  That seems like the more reasonable position IMO.

 

Whatever "mistakes" you're referring to I'm not familiar with either.  

 

 

 

 

if you are strill unfamiliar with TG's mistakes after 20 pages, you must not have been reading this thread

maybe try reading before posting

[Angry Goose]

14 minutes ago, lmm said:

if you are strill unfamiliar with TG's mistakes after 20 pages, you must not have been reading this thread

maybe try reading before posting

Or you could just answer the question

 

what mistakes are YOU referring to?

[lmm]

34 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Or you could just answer the question

 

what mistakes are YOU referring to?

that would be repeating myself

and it was not a question the first time around

as I pointed out earlier, YOU are playing 'silly bugger' 

 

[Angry Goose]

10 minutes ago, lmm said:

that would be repeating myself

and it was not a question the first time around

as I pointed out earlier, YOU are playing 'silly bugger' 

 

great response, this coming from the guy who thinks not being an NHL assistant first "likely" played a role in whatever "mistakes" he's made lmao

[smithers joe]

i’ld like to know, if his so called mistakes are diagnosed by fans or real hockey people?  if he doesn’t make the decisions  i would want him to make, is he a bad coach or just not me.?  i like the majority of his moves.  no more, no less than other coaches around the league. i’ld put him in the middle of the others.  pretty good from my point of view. 

i’m a green supporter, so sue me.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, smithers joe said:

i’ld like to know, if his so called mistakes are diagnosed by fans or real hockey people?  if he doesn’t make the decisions  i would want him to make, is he a bad coach or just not me.?  i like the majority of his moves.  no more, no less than other coaches around the league. i’ld put him in the middle of the others.  pretty good from my point of view. 

i’m a green supporter, so sue me.

I like Green too Joe.  What I don’t like are his forecheck, and his passive philosophy.  They contradict one another.  Maybe that’s direction from above though?  

[smithers joe]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

I like Green too Joe.  What I don’t like are his forecheck, and his passive philosophy.  They contradict one another.  Maybe that’s direction from above though?  

if i had it in my power, i’ld arrange for you to sit down with green, one on one. you could ask him why he employs the systems he does and why he doesn’t employ the philosophy you want to see? maybe he could convince you of his methods or maybe you could convince him to change to meet your idea  of how to coach a successful system.