Fire Green!

[189lb enforcers?]

7 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Why the focus on just the Adams?  

 

Also, just curious whether you can name any younger players that have regressed because of TG under his watch.  

I don’t understand either question’s context/merit as far as my comments are concerned. 
 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

One thing is for sure tho. This team came a long way since last year and the year before that. 

And it's not just all players.

 

I don't know man.  Take the previous teams and add Hughes + Miller + Petterson and then also Toffoli + Myers + Pearson etc...

 

I think that's kind of enough right there to go from where they were to squeaking into (or perhaps embarrassingly missing) the playoffs.

 

Big improvements in Markstrom and Virtanen should be recognized.  I'm not sure how much of that should be credited to Green or not.

 

We've got a Norris candidate and four players in the top 70 in scoring and that doesn't include Boeser.  That's a huge personnel improvement from two years ago.

[LowerMainLander18]

16 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I don't know man.  Take the previous teams and add Hughes + Miller + Petterson and then also Toffoli + Myers + Pearson etc...

 

I think that's kind of enough right there to go from where they were to squeaking into (or perhaps embarrassingly missing) the playoffs.

 

Big improvements in Markstrom and Virtanen should be recognized.  I'm not sure how much of that should be credited to Green or not.

 

We've got a Norris candidate and four players in the top 70 in scoring and that doesn't include Boeser.  That's a huge personnel improvement from two years ago.

Absolutely agree. We got much better players from let's say 2 years ago. 

But getting a young player off to a good start by putting him a good position to succeed is pretty important. 

All the players u mentioned were given those opportunities. And those were taken from those that they thought werent with us in our longterm plan.

 

I am not an expert. But it takes more than good players to win hockey games in NHL. 

[Angry Goose]

2 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

I don’t understand either question’s context/merit as far as my comments are concerned. 
 

 

Just looking for clarification on the first, general curiosity on the second.  Nbd

[apollo]

Fire OP. Why is this toxicity allowed to go on? Stop feeding a topic called "Fire Green" ... I say, as I feed it one more post... but I think it's needed.

 

Just focus on positive things - whether its hockey or your life.

[Angry Goose]

On 3/5/2020 at 10:48 PM, Kushman said:

Two rookie coaches because they were cheap and we were rebuilding. We were going to go through dark times until we drafted some talent, no matter who the coach would of been. Our window has opened sooner than expected due to exceptional drafting. (3 consecutive Calder finalists/winners is an impressive feat).  Now would be the time to bring on an experienced coach to take this team to the next level.

 

Berube, Tochett, Brindamour are all relatively inexperienced NHL coaches.  Seem to be doing ok

[Kushman]

30 minutes ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Berube, Tochett, Brindamour are all relatively inexperienced NHL coaches.  Seem to be doing ok

Berube was an assistant coach at the nhl level for 6 seasons before he got a head coaching position with Philly... Then became an associate coach under Mike yeo (who has been coaching at the nhl level for quite some time) before taking over as the head coach for st louis. 11 total seasons of nhl level coaching. 

 

Rick tochet spent his first 4 seasons as an assistant coach before getting the head coaching gig in Tampa for 1.5 seasons... Followed by an assistant coaching position for the Pittsburgh penguins for 3 seasons and now a head coach for Arizona for 3 Seasons. Again.. 11 seasons of nhl coaching exp. (Note as a head, tochet has never been in the playoffs, so I don't know what your standard for "doing ok" is) 

 

Rob brindamour 7 seasons as an assistant in Carolina under multiple veteran coaches in that time period. 2 seasons now as a head coach. 9 total seasons of coaching. 

 

I dont know how you can compare those three to Travis Green who had ZERO nhl coaching experience before being gifted the job. Yes those three are relatively new head coaches, but have had a TON of exp as assistants learning from some of the nhls most veteran coaches. Green has none and what's worse, he has an assistant in baumgartner whos even more of a rookie to coaching than he is.

Two guys learning on the job without the benefit of having someone to help them through the learning curve. Terrible.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Kushman

[Angry Goose]

1 hour ago, Kushman said:

Berube was an assistant coach at the nhl level for 6 seasons before he got a head coaching position with Philly... Then became an associate coach under Mike yeo (who has been coaching at the nhl level for quite some time) before taking over as the head coach for st louis. 11 total seasons of nhl level coaching. 

 

Rick tochet spent his first 4 seasons as an assistant coach before getting the head coaching gig in Tampa for 1.5 seasons... Followed by an assistant coaching position for the Pittsburgh penguins for 3 seasons and now a head coach for Arizona for 3 Seasons. Again.. 11 seasons of nhl coaching exp. (Note as a head, tochet has never been in the playoffs, so I don't know what your standard for "doing ok" is) 

 

Rob brindamour 7 seasons as an assistant in Carolina under multiple veteran coaches in that time period. 2 seasons now as a head coach. 9 total seasons of coaching. 

 

I dont know how you can compare those three to Travis Green who had ZERO nhl coaching experience before being gifted the job. Yes those three are relatively new head coaches, but have had a TON of exp as assistants learning from some of the nhls most veteran coaches. Green has none and what's worse, he has an assistant in baumgartner whos even more of a rookie to coaching than he is.

Two guys learning on the job without the benefit of having someone to help them through the learning curve. Terrible.

So TG not being a capable coach has nothing to do with his involvement in the game like the others, but his lack of experience as an NHL assistant first?  What you say could have some merit, but it could also just as easily be wrong as well.  

[oldnews]

6 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Fair enough. 
Would still like to see someone put their name behind the idea that TG is Adams-worthy. 

Seems like only a fringe segment of the hockey world would even consider that outcome as a reality, let alone cast that vote. 

the fringe you're referring to - are identified on that Jack Adams Trophy Tracker = as "18 NHL.com writers".

 

Keep it in context - the vote was taken at the 3/4 mark - in other words at the 60-62ish game mark...iirc the Canucks either lead the division or were neck and neck at that point - and then proceeded to lose 5 of 6 (1 game removed from losing Markstrom) - 6 games being enough to move them from 1st in the division to a wildcard spot....

 

CDC - the mouse-wheel fishbowl where a coach has about a 6 game shelf life lol.

 

Reality...is parity.

 

6 teams - from 6th to 11th - in the Eastern conference within 3 pts of each other.

7 teams - from 4th to 11th - in the Western conference - within 6 pts of each other - most teams having games in hand on 4th place Edmonton....

Give or take a few more points and literally half the league is clustered immediately around the playoff races.

 

Green is fine.  

Most people did not consider this team competitive - thought they were at least another year or more removed from a playoff race.

Considering the team is without it's MVP / leaning on a rookie and an AHL goaltender - has been missing a handful of other guys - and it's not only not surprising, but to be expected that they'd likely at best be scratching and clawing - with a very young core - to sustain a spot in the race down the stretch.  Young, depleted teams tend to flag and face slides, period - they managed to fight through most of it, but Markstrom was more of a tipping point imo.

 

Default mindless blame here - the poor man's wages - chalks it up to the - unknown to the 'judges' - "system" of Green's. 

The ironing - the implicit expectation/contradiction - that this teamotherwise  'should' be running away with a playoff spot / the division lead....

 

 

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by oldnews

[wallstreetamigo]

I don't think many people truly believed last summer that the Canucks would be any further ahead than where they are right now. 

 

Green has some areas where he needs to improve but the same can be said of every coach. He is still a net positive at this point. There is a very real possibility that the Canucks will look at a coaching change at some point if they think it is necessary to take the next step. In that event there are still some great experienced options available.

 

Having said that, if the Canucks make the playoffs it is essentially a "found money" year. So why not see if Green is capable of stepping up his game in the playoffs? You don't know what someone is capable of until you see them do it.

[189lb enforcers?]

Green is “fine” and deserves a nod for the Adams are two VERY different things, @oldnews.
 

Yes, I wanted to learn first who voted for Greener as coach of the year, and then to hear why he would qualify over the other coaches. No context needed there. 

 

Anyways, of course I read that it was 18 Writers... all 18 of them... and still anonymous as far as the image was concerned... which qualifies as fringe enough for me, and since when is there stock put into what the(se) scribblers say anyways??( I can’t keep up to the fickle wheel of sniffing which journalists are good or bad... haters, etc. It’s a fickle thing)

The onus isn’t on me or any other non voting hockey fans to qualify or to make an argument to support voting TG for the Adams, but we know that. 
 

Would you award Greene with the Adams as of today? 

I suspect not. 

I wouldn’t. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

7 hours ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Just looking for clarification on the first, general curiosity on the second.  Nbd

See above. Close enough, probably?

 

[Westcoasting]

Is the fire Green bandwagon still rolling or did the wheels fall off with hockey suspended?

[oldnews]

[lmm]

On 3/11/2020 at 7:35 PM, SILLY GOOSE said:

So TG not being a capable coach has nothing to do with his involvement in the game like the others, but his lack of experience as an NHL assistant first?  What you say could have some merit, but it could also just as easily be wrong as well.  

Greens capability as a coach has everything to do with mistakes he makes behind the bench.

the reasoning for those mistakes are possibly/likely because of inexperience.

Kushman is supporting his arguement with fact

you are trying to twist his words

do you even have a point to make , or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

[Hairy Kneel]

On 3/14/2020 at 4:43 PM, Westcoasting said:

Is the fire Green bandwagon still rolling or did the wheels fall off with hockey suspended?

If we miss the playoffs ya its rolling.

[lmm]

On 3/14/2020 at 4:43 PM, Westcoasting said:

Is the fire Green bandwagon still rolling or did the wheels fall off with hockey suspended?

that train has just pulled off to a siding for a bit.

not much to complain about with TG being undefeated for over a week

[The Lock]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:13 PM, 189lb enforcers? said:

Would you award Greene with the Adams as of today? 

I suspect not. 

I wouldn’t. 

First of all I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late and I haven't really read much before this last page, so keep that in mind.

 

To answer your question, let's assume hockey wasn't put on hold and we could continue the season until the end. I really think it would depend on where we finished in the rankings in the end. It seems to me that most Adams winners are typically based on something tangible such as rankings.

 

If we are out of the playoffs by the end, then no. Of course not.

If we increase in rankings up to top 3 in the division, then maybe.

If we go back to being 1st in the division? That's a pretty solid case at that point.

 

I think the biggest consideration here is where we were expected to be compared with where we end up in the end. The fact that we have done what we have done so far is clearly what's creating this conversation in the first place. At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if he became a finalist competing with someone like Tippett (although I wouldn't be surprised if Tippett would have more votes in the end anyway given how many years of pain Edmonton has had lol).

Edited March 18, 2020 by The Lock

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

First of all I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late and I haven't really read much before this last page, so keep that in mind.

 

To answer your question, let's assume hockey wasn't put on hold and we could continue the season until the end. I really think it would depend on where we finished in the rankings in the end. It seems to me that most Adams winners are typically based on something tangible such as rankings.

 

If we are out of the playoffs by the end, then no. Of course not.

If we increase in rankings up to top 3 in the division, then maybe.

If we go back to being 1st in the division? That's a pretty solid case at that point.

 

I think the biggest consideration here is where we were expected to be compared with where we end up in the end. The fact that we have done what we have done so far is clearly what's creating this conversation in the first place. At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if he became a finalist competing with someone like Tippett (although I wouldn't be surprised if Tippett would have more votes in the end anyway).

For myself I see us as either having a crappy team, that Green’s coaching has kept us on the edge of the playoffs, or we have a good team, and Green’s coaching has held us down to just being on the edge of the playoffs.  I see us as a good team.  Why any Canuck’s fan would see us as a crappy team is beyond my understanding.  

So, Green should be fired.  

[189lb enforcers?]

24 minutes ago, The Lock said:

First of all I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late and I haven't really read much before this last page, so keep that in mind.

 

To answer your question, let's assume hockey wasn't put on hold and we could continue the season until the end. I really think it would depend on where we finished in the rankings in the end. It seems to me that most Adams winners are typically based on something tangible such as rankings.

 

If we are out of the playoffs by the end, then no. Of course not.

If we increase in rankings up to top 3 in the division, then maybe.

If we go back to being 1st in the division? That's a pretty solid case at that point.

 

I think the biggest consideration here is where we were expected to be compared with where we end up in the end. The fact that we have done what we have done so far is clearly what's creating this conversation in the first place. At the very least, I wouldn't be surprised if he became a finalist competing with someone like Tippett (although I wouldn't be surprised if Tippett would have more votes in the end anyway given how many years of pain Edmonton has had lol).

All reasonable comments, of course. 

FTR, I am not seeking to have Greener removed, though I wouldn’t bat an eye if he were. I have criticized some aspects of his systems or deployment, but I’m actually a fan of his basic 2-1-2 forecheck, but not so much of the gap that shows up when the D first look to transition the puck. 

 

I’m surprised that Greene was in the running for the Adams, shocked even. I don’t vote him in there, nor is it up to me to explain why I think he is the best in the league. That onus is on those holding him in such high regard. 
 

Personally, my vote would go to Torts. 
 

No question about it, he’s squeezed more from less and survived much more than Greene had to this season, let alone beginning with less. I’d put Greener mid pack at best. 

Edited March 18, 2020 by 189lb enforcers?