Proposal - Jake and Loui to Ottawa

[Schmautzie]

Virtanen and Eriksson to the Senators for Colin White.

 

Ottawa has lots of cap room and can take on Loui’s cap hit. His actual salary isn’t that much which would make the Senators’ ownership happy.

 

Virtanen still has loads of potential but needs a change of scenery and coaching. Podkolzin is set to take his job.

 

White is a Centre who has been in his coach’s doghouse and has been a healthy scratch. He also has potential and plays a position that the Canucks do not have much depth in.

[Phil_314]

For $4.75 million x 5 years, I'm not sure it's worth it to dump Jake to lose Loui.

I don't know if Colin's got it in him to be more than just an average player, because he hasn't really be noticeable this 3 game series, besides jamming away in front.

That's a lot to pay for another bottom-6 center especially if Sutter probably regained management's trust and we still have Beagle.

[Monkeyking]

we don't need another 5 year of dead cap

[khay]

No Colin White. His cap hit is too high.

 

I might do Gaudette + Eriksson for a contract that terminates in a season to dump Eriksson's cap for next season.

 

IMO Virtanen is a better player and has higher ceiling than Gaudette at this point, especially since Gaudette can't center his own line.

 

For example, if Virtanen adds killing PK to his repertoire... he would be a 20 goal scorer that kills penalty. He's got ways to go but maybe he will get there one day?

 

Gaudette on the other hand, is very one-dimensional at the moment. Not particularly great at forechecking either.

 

[Zhukini]

1 hour ago, khay said:

No Colin White. His cap hit is too high.

 

I might do Gaudette + Eriksson for a contract that terminates in a season to dump Eriksson's cap for next season.

 

IMO Virtanen is a better player and has higher ceiling than Gaudette at this point, especially since Gaudette can't center his own line.

 

For example, if Virtanen adds killing PK to his repertoire... he would be a 20 goal scorer that kills penalty. He's got ways to go but maybe he will get there one day?

 

Gaudette on the other hand, is very one-dimensional at the moment. Not particularly great at forechecking either.

 

Please no more

[BigTramFan]

2 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

Virtanen and Eriksson to the Senators for Colin White.

 

Ottawa has lots of cap room and can take on Loui’s cap hit. His actual salary isn’t that much which would make the Senators’ ownership happy.

 

Virtanen still has loads of potential but needs a change of scenery and coaching. Podkolzin is set to take his job.

 

White is a Centre who has been in his coach’s doghouse and has been a healthy scratch. He also has potential and plays a position that the Canucks do not have much depth in.

No way JB should include Virtanen in a deal for White. I would agree to the following deal...

 

To OTT: Eriksson + Rafferty

To VAN: White

 

OTT may accept this just to get rid of White's expensive contract, he has not performed anywhere near his contract value, which still has the best part of $24.5m in salary to pay over the next 5 years. They take on Eriksson and pay only about $5m in actual salary over 2 years. And they get a potential future D in Rafferty, which OTT are desperately in need of.

 

For VAN, JB can try White out this season on the roster as a potential future 3C with similar cap hit to a buried LE, and if White doesn't stack up, buy him out at the end of the season with a cap hit of only $0.85m over the next 8 years. Although it is over a long period, these smaller instalments over a longer period would be more palatable than Loui's $6m cap hit next season.

 

It's a WIN-WIN if OTT are truly ready to give up on White.

[Ghostsof1915]

Exchanging a problem for a longer term cap problem?

[Nucker 67]

for picks

(e.g. 2nd and a 7th)

 

 

[Phil_314]

9 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

No way JB should include Virtanen in a deal for White. I would agree to the following deal...

 

To OTT: Eriksson + Rafferty

To VAN: White

 

OTT may accept this just to get rid of White's expensive contract, he has not performed anywhere near his contract value, which still has the best part of $24.5m in salary to pay over the next 5 years. They take on Eriksson and pay only about $5m in actual salary over 2 years. And they get a potential future D in Rafferty, which OTT are desperately in need of.

 

For VAN, JB can try White out this season on the roster as a potential future 3C with similar cap hit to a buried LE, and if White doesn't stack up, buy him out at the end of the season with a cap hit of only $0.85m over the next 8 years. Although it is over a long period, these smaller instalments over a longer period would be more palatable than Loui's $6m cap hit next season.

 

It's a WIN-WIN if OTT are truly ready to give up on White.

Wait, is the bolded true?  (Rafferty seems like a palatable cost esp. if he doesn't grow physically stronger, because without that IDK if he has an NHL career in him).

[Nuxfanabroad]

14 hours ago, BigTramFan said:

No way JB should include Virtanen in a deal for White. I would agree to the following deal...

 

To OTT: Eriksson + Rafferty

To VAN: White

 

OTT may accept this just to get rid of White's expensive contract, he has not performed anywhere near his contract value, which still has the best part of $24.5m in salary to pay over the next 5 years. They take on Eriksson and pay only about $5m in actual salary over 2 years. And they get a potential future D in Rafferty, which OTT are desperately in need of.

 

For VAN, JB can try White out this season on the roster as a potential future 3C with similar cap hit to a buried LE, and if White doesn't stack up, buy him out at the end of the season with a cap hit of only $0.85m over the next 8 years. Although it is over a long period, these smaller instalments over a longer period would be more palatable than Loui's $6m cap hit next season.

 

It's a WIN-WIN if OTT are truly ready to give up on White.

 

4 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Wait, is the bolded true?  (Rafferty seems like a palatable cost esp. if he doesn't grow physically stronger, because without that IDK if he has an NHL career in him).

Yeah, I'd seen people discussing this last yr on HF, so threw the proposal over here. It really is an interesting idea. I don't think 1% of our cap(850 K) would be something worth moaning about.

 

Only diff is I'd try to stretch White to a yr & a half, thus use him for Seattle exposure. Another cap-strapped team might take the guy too, so he'd become a hot potato.

[mll]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

Yeah, I'd seen people discussing this last yr on HF, so threw the proposal over here. It really is an interesting idea. I don't think 1% of our cap(850 K) would be something worth moaning about.

 

Only diff is I'd try to stretch White to a yr & a half, thus use him for Seattle exposure. Another cap-strapped team might take the guy too, so he'd become a hot potato.

Buying out White is cheaper than adding Eriksson + Virtanen.  It also spreads the cost in times where owners are cash strapped.  Would expect Melnyk to prefer buying out White himself.  There’s no real incentive to add Eriksson or Virtanen.  They have enough extras/bottom of the lineup players.

[BigTramFan]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Buying out White is cheaper than adding Eriksson + Virtanen.  It also spreads the cost in times where owners are cash strapped.  Would expect Melnyk to prefer buying out White himself.  There’s no real incentive to add Eriksson or Virtanen.  They have enough extras/bottom of the lineup players.

The total cost is actually cheaper for Melnyk (but quite similar) taking on LE + JV compared to buying out White. If you compare actual costs, here's how it pans out:

 

Eriksson (under contract 2020-21 and 2021-22) - total remaining salary + signing bonuses = $5m

Virtanen ((under contract 2020-21 and 2021-22) - total remaining salary + signing bonuses = $5.1m

TOTAL COST = $10.1m over 2 years

 

Colin White (completes 2020-21 season, then bought out) = $4m salary this season + $6.83m buy out costs = $10.83m over 9 years

 

So strictly speaking the cost is lower to take on LE + JV. But as you say, it might be more palatable to spread the cost over a long period with a buy out of White.

 

The advantage of having LE + JV means that you have filled two roster spots for this season and next season. Whereas White fills only one spot and then next season you are having to pay for another player to fill that spot. In addition, JV is actually an asset that could be flipped for other assets.

 

Anyway, my original counter proposal was that JB should NOT trade Virtanen + LE for White!!! haha

 

[Schmautzie]

Except I think adding  Eriksson and Virtanen would actually improve the Senators. That was a pretty sorry looking group we just watched for three games.

1 hour ago, mll said:

Buying out White is cheaper than adding Eriksson + Virtanen.  It also spreads the cost in times where owners are cash strapped.  Would expect Melnyk to prefer buying out White himself.  There’s no real incentive to add Eriksson or Virtanen.  They have enough extras/bottom of the lineup players.

 

[Schmautzie]

9 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Exchanging a problem for a longer term cap problem?

I think Colin White could make a good third line centre. I think he has more upside than Gaudette for that role.

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

I think Colin White could make a good third line centre. I think he has more upside than Gaudette for that role.

Is that 3rd line center worth the risk of losing one of our top players when we don't have the cap to sign him in 2 or 3 years down the road?

 

Even outside of that possibility, 4.75mil for a 3rd line center. People complain about Sutter and Beagle costing a lot. Let's just pay even more for a bottom 6 center in White while we're at it. The mutiny we'd have on our hands at that point would be insane.

Edited January 30, 2021 by The Lock

[Schmautzie]

2 hours ago, The Lock said:

Is that 3rd line center worth the risk of losing one of our top players when we don't have the cap to sign him in 2 or 3 years down the road?

 

Even outside of that possibility, 4.75mil for a 3rd line center. People complain about Sutter and Beagle costing a lot. Let's just pay even more for a bottom 6 center in White while we're at it. The mutiny we'd have on our hands at that point would be insane.

White’s cap hit would be more than offset by moving Loui’s 6 million and Jake’s 2.6 million contracts. Sutter and Beagle (and Roussel )  will also be gone by the time we have to re sign some of our young stars.

 

 

[Nuxfanabroad]

Yeah..went back to take a look. Made a LE/CW proposal almost a yr ago, to the day Jan 31, 2020(Van, OTT, A Beautiful Solution). There's 3 pages of tweaks & talk.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if some team makes such a White deal happen. Just don't see Melnyk being one who wants to nurse a lousy contract forever.

It's quite attractive to give a shot to a 23 yr kid(maybe stuck in loserville-sit.), who once showed promise. Especially for a 1% cap-penalty, if it don't fly.

[mll]

12 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

Except I think adding  Eriksson and Virtanen would actually improve the Senators. That was a pretty sorry looking group we just watched for three games.

 

Eriksson and Virtanen are not going to turn them into contenders.  They need their young players to take the next step.  Feels like it will just slow their rebuild by giving ice time to stop gap players rather than develop their youth while spending more immediate money.  

[The Lock]

7 hours ago, Schmautzie said:

White’s cap hit would be more than offset by moving Loui’s 6 million and Jake’s 2.6 million contracts. Sutter and Beagle (and Roussel )  will also be gone by the time we have to re sign some of our young stars.

Even if that may be the case, it's still 4.75mil for a 3rd line center. We might want to sign other free agents in the meantime, players who would be a better impact than White, so I still think this would be horrible management of our money at this point to be honest,

 

I get that you've come up with this trade and want to convince and don't want to back down, but you also need to look at the bigger picture here and what's actually going to be best for the team. I don't see how this is what's best.

Edited January 30, 2021 by The Lock

[Schmautzie]

4 hours ago, The Lock said:

Even if that may be the case, it's still 4.75mil for a 3rd line center. We might want to sign other free agents in the meantime, players who would be a better impact than White, so I still think this would be horrible management of our money at this point to be honest,

 

I get that you've come up with this trade and want to convince and don't want to back down, but you also need to look at the bigger picture here and what's actually going to be best for the team. I don't see how this is what's best.

I actually think this trade would be what’s best for the team. We’d be trading two players that are currently healthy scratches for someone I believe has a solid future in the NHL. As for saving money for future free agent signings JB hasn’t exactly shone in that department so far.

 

And don’t worry as I don’t take any criticisms personally. I  think the Canucks would do this trade but Ottawa wouldn’t.